theory Roshar's Focus

[Eagle of the Forest Path he/him]

I'll give one last counterargument for gems, Moogle. If you can refute this, I'll give up trying to convince you.

 

I think it's pretty clear that the different listener forms are one of the forms of magic on Roshar, that is, the changing of forms, not the abilities of any one form.

If you define the focus as an element in the magic that defines the effect, listener's forms' dependence on which type of spren they attract during a highstorm is a powerful indication that spren are the focus of Roshar.

 

You'll probably counter this by saying that the spren are trapped in gems before they even go into the highstorm, introducing gems into the equation again. In response I have to point out that the Parshendi only recently discovered how to trap spren in gems, making the process easier, but not substantively different. Before this discovery they had to go out into the storms and attract the correct type of spren by singing the right song.

IMO this proves beyond a reasonable doubt (I've been watching lawyer shows recently ) that the current involvement of gems is of negligible relevance and that the true factor determining the effect of the listener's form change is the type of spren (i.e. the focus).

[Oversleep]

If spren are really Roshar's focus, then it makes sense that there are godsprens. Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Unmade.

Now, I know you're saying "Stormfather was there before Honor arrived on Roshar!" (is this even confirmed?) but I'm thinking that Honor's godspren kind of assumed the form of Stormfather. Or merged with it.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Oversleep

[Ari he/him]

I'll give one last counterargument for gems, Moogle. If you can refute this, I'll give up trying to convince you.

 

I think it's pretty clear that the different listener forms are one of the forms of magic on Roshar, that is, the changing of forms, not the abilities of any one form.

If you define the focus as an element in the magic that defines the effect, listener's forms' dependence on which type of spren they attract during a highstorm is a powerful indication that spren are the focus of Roshar.

 

You'll probably counter this by saying that the spren are trapped in gems before they even go into the highstorm, introducing gems into the equation again. In response I have to point out that the Parshendi only recently discovered how to trap spren in gems, making the process easier, but not substantively different. Before this discovery they had to go out into the storms and attract the correct type of spren by singing the right song.

IMO this proves beyond a reasonable doubt (I've been watching lawyer shows recently ) that the current involvement of gems is of negligible relevance and that the true factor determining the effect of the listener's form change is the type of spren (i.e. the focus).

 

An interesting argument for sure, but you should possibly be wary of using the Parshendi as an argument for how Honour's magic works, as arguably they're in a completely different magic system, so their interaction with the planet's focus may be different.

 

I would've said the best argument for Spren-as-Focus is that almost every single time we've seen investiture used on Roshar, a Spren has been involved- either captive in a fabrial, bonded to a Knight Radiant, or to switch Parshendi forms. The lone exception appears to be use of the Honourblades.

[KSub]

I'm pretty sure the focus is bonds

[Eagle of the Forest Path he/him]

An interesting argument for sure, but you should possibly be wary of using the Parshendi as an argument for how Honour's magic works...

 

I wasn't using the Parshendi as an argument for Honour's magic, but for Roshar's magic.

[Ari he/him]

I wasn't using the Parshendi as an argument for Honour's magic, but for Roshar's magic.

 

Which is effectively Honour's, Cultivation's, and Odium's magics as of the Stormlight Archive, which complicates things. For all we know Odium's touch on things makes them interact with the focus in a different way than Honour's does.

 

Or perhaps Parshendi don't need to use a focus because they're not actually using the Spren to do magic as it's normally done on Roshar- rather the Spren is filling a coginitive hole in their being similar to how a Spike functions for Kandra, and the Spren is using stormlight to enact a physical change based on what type of Spren they are.

 

I'm still rather undecided on what's going on and would like more info.

[Yata he/him]

I am very doubtful about Spren as Roshar's Focus... It's like to say that the Focus of Power on Roshar is the power itself

 

Reading Mistborn SH I began to delete also "gemstone" from the list but I actually never consider it a candidate for Roshar's Focus.

 

I am still with the "bond" as a focus but I need to think better to the whole thing

Edited March 26, 2016 by Yata

[Navi]

What if roshars focus is actions, intent & cognitive activity? that is imo the most natural way to attract spren.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Navi

[Navi]

Which is effectively Honour's, Cultivation's, and Odium's magics as of the Stormlight Archive, which complicates things. For all we know Odium's touch on things makes them interact with the focus in a different way than Honour's does.

Or perhaps Parshendi don't need to use a focus because they're not actually using the Spren to do magic as it's normally done on Roshar- rather the Spren is filling a coginitive hole in their being similar to how a Spike functions for Kandra, and the Spren is using stormlight to enact a physical change based on what type of Spren they are.

I'm still rather undecided on what's going on and would like more info.

so spren would be like a metal filtering investure

[natc]

What if roshars focus is actions, intent & cognitive activity? that is imo the most natural way to attract spren.

Two of those matter for nearly everything magicky.

And the third is meaningless to honorblades as far as we know.

[Calderis he/him]

Tried to post this and it didn't go through for some reason.

I've always thought that bonds were the focus simply because they apply to everything.

KR bonds to spren, listeners bond to spren. Fabrials form forceful bonds between gemstones and spren, split gemstones, even people (the alarm type Fabrials bond to the people in an area and then create an alert if someone not bonded enters.)

You bond to a shard blade, and an honor blade. You create a bond with a Ryshadium.

Gems hold storm light captive, it is bound.

Gems and spren proliferate on Roshar, but bonds are the only constant we see in the magic.

Bonda aren't limited to a single type. You have symbiotic relationships like the KR. you have parasitic one like how the Voids voidspren obviously hijacked the listener's personality.

You have squires, who gain powers through a bond with their Knight.

Everything comes back to it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Calderis

[Stormgate he/him]

I think it's symmetry, or waveforms, or something like that. The Listeners are in perfect sync when singing. Gemstones work better when symmetrically cut.

You can usually tell the focus of Shardworld by any form of writing that's not just written words, and what the names are based on. In Elantris, the other form of writing is using Aons, like in the Elantrian library Raoden found. Their names are clearly based around the Aons.

In Warbreaker, the artisans script is used for writing poetry. I'm not sure how the Returned are named (perhaps Lightsong's drunk monkey?)

In SA, the names are based on being almost symmetrical, true symmetry being deemed almost heresy. They have a form of poetry called the ketek. This is completely symmetrical and must make sense. They have glyphs that are completely symmetrical and, when a ketek is written in glyphs, is completely symmetrical. I'm not convinced, however, that it is purely symmetry, since Roshar's landmass is taken from a certain stage of a Julia Set, which, if I'm understanding it correctly, is a form of fractal.

Either way, Sanderson drops hints about that stuff, so it makes sense for him to continue the Pattern in his largest endeavor since he proposed the idea of the Cosmere. In fact, this is probably harder, since it's so long and he needs the story to stretch over 5-10 books (I'm not sure how he plans on having the whole two 5-book series thing).

[Oversleep]

Gemstones work better when symmetrically cut.

Is this confirmed? Can you provide a source?

You can usually tell the focus of Shardworld by any form of writing that's not just written words, and what the names are based on.

Scadrial, for example.

In Warbreaker, the artisans script is used for writing poetry. I'm not sure how the Returned are named (perhaps Lightsong's drunk monkey?)

How does this relate to Commands?

[Stormgate he/him]

1. It's in a WoB. If a gemstone was perfectly—down to the molecular level—cut, it would not leak Stormlight.

2. Exactly.

3. The focus for the planets is not in any way related to how Investiture is used, it is only the medium by which it flows. Nalthis has the focus of color, as suggested by the Tears of Edgli being named for Endowment's Vessel.

[Oversleep]

1. It's in a WoB. If a gemstone was perfectly—down to the molecular level—cut, it would not leak Stormlight.

Does "perfectly" equal "symmetrically"? I am not so sure.

2. Exactly.

I was being sarcastic; care to explain how does the "form of writing" relate to Scadrial's focus? And how are Scadrian names based on metals?

If you want to pull the "writing in metal" argument, I want to remind you that Shards are blind to metal; since they are blind to metal, it's safe to contain messages. Not the other way around.

3. The focus for the planets is not in any way related to how Investiture is used, it is only the medium by which it flows. Nalthis has the focus of color, as suggested by the Tears of Edgli being named for Endowment's Vessel.

Focus of Nalthis is Command. There is nothing special to Commands if we approach them from linguistic side; they are just regular words. I don't see how Commands influence writing or how names are based on them.

[Yata he/him]

I was being sarcastic; care to explain how does the "form of writing" relate to Scadrial's focus? And how are Scadrian names based on metals?

If you want to pull the "writing in metal" argument, I want to remind you that Shards are blind to metal; since they are blind to metal, it's safe to contain messages. Not the other way around.

Probably he talk about the Iron alphabeth, but I imagine that the reason is about how Magic work with some elements... For example on Scadrial the relationship Feruchemy-Metal was quite sure and therefore this knowledge created that language.

On Nalthis the people with many Breath have an huge improvement to thier sense and therefore they develop a language that can use this sensibility... but in the end they didn't use the focus of the planet.

 

Therefore we can't be sure that "aplhabet= ultimate clue to discover a Focus"