Lets do some metal math

[Sandastron]

I apologize if someone else has already done this math, but I haven't seen it yet, so here we go.

So yesterday, I was thinking about how crazy awesome the metalic arts are. I was thinking about just how many powers there are and remembered that there are over 100 possible abilities available on scandrial. We arrive at this number through some simple math. (16 regular metals + 2 god metals)(3 metalic arts)= 54 abilities. We currently have some info on the workings of 44 of these powers. In addition to these base powers, we have WOBs that tell us that each of the base metals can be combined with atium or lerasium to form entirely new allomantic metals. So now we have (16 atium alloys + 16 lerasium alloys)(3 metalic arts)= 96 additional powers, bringing the total to 150 powers. Finally it has been hinted at that you could also have an alloy of lerasium and atium, harmonium if you will. This adds 3 powers (1 new metal)(three metalic arts) bringing the grand total to 153 powers.

But is that really the grand total? Because, actually, we now know that it isn't. In SoS, a new metal I'll call trellium was used as a hemalurgic spike, bringing the confirmed total to 154 abilities. But the implications don't stop there. I'm about to jump off into the deep end of theoryland, but bare with me.

If a different God metal can be used to power hemalurgy, it stands to reason that it could be used by all the metalic arts, bringing are total to 156 powers. Not a big deal, but then you start to think about the big picture. If trell's investiture can be made into a metal, than why couldn't all the shards make metals? If they could, and it seems reasonable to believe, this brings the possible abilities to 153 + (14 other shards)(3 metalic arts) = 195 abilities. But here's where things get really, really weird. Not only does it seem that the God metals can be burned, tapped, and spiked, alloys of the God metals can be burned, tapped, and spiked as seen by the existence of harmonium. This leads to truly mindblowing possibilities. If my math is correct, this leads to (138 possible combinations of two shards)(3 metalic arts) = 414, 414 + 195 other powers = 609 possible powers. Now, is this actually likely to occur? Absolutely not. In the first place, several of the shards are shattered. Second, I wouldn't be surprised if two shards are required to bond the way preservation and ruin did to create an alloy of their metals, and it is unlikely that ruin odium will bond with cultivation any time soon. And finally, even if they did occur, trellium behaved in much the same way hemalurgically that atium is believed to (able to steal any power), so I would bet that if brandon went down this road there would be a lot of overlap.

Still, its fascinating to think about, right? What does burning Odiumium do? How many powers are there actually? What if you could make combinations of 3 or more shardic metals? That would be (...Nevermind. I'm not even going to try to do that math). Or what if each of the shards could make an alloy with each of the 16 base metals? That would be (16 base metals)(14 other shards)(3 metalic arts)+ 195 other powers = 867 total abilities.  And that's not even counting the 256 perks that come from mixing allomancy and feruchemy.

Simply due to the time involved in coming up with such a staggering number of powers, I find it unlikely that this fever dream of a theory will actually come true. But I will say this. If I'm even close to being right, and you really can burn combinations of God metals, and there are people who want to bring Adonalsium back... Well, it would be a shame if some allomancer didn't mix himself up a 16 shard alloy and burn Adonalsiumium. Who knows what would happen then?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sandastron

[Zathoth]

I know right?

 

What I am curious about is how many powers a Mistborn has in their sDNA... like, if Vin while using the mists explored her powers, how many would she have?

 

And what about Feruchemists? If they found a metal they could store everything they could possibly store in, how many powers would they have?

[natc]

I don't believe there's a known cap on mistborn powers actually. I mean they can die from burning random metal that isn't even allomantic.

I like to think their connection to Preservation is just so strong that something just breaks when they snap (well, more than normal) and the hard limit of 1 normally in place fails completely.

[Stormgate he/him]

Here is my theory on god metals. In another thread I'm not going to link since I'm on a tablet, I propose that, among other things, burning a god metal gives a twisted version of one of the sixteen Allomantic metals, like electrum and atium. This is not confirmed by WoB, but I also think that an Atium Misting could burn any alloy of atium (assuming appropriate amounts of each metal, of course). Not only that, I also think (with even more controversy) that electrum Mistings can burn atium, and so on. I think Raysium (different name) might do something like aluminum, or maybe pewter, or something.

[Oversleep]

You may want to check out this. Paragraphs: First, Fifth and Sixth.

[killersquirrel59 he/him]

Thank you Stormgate for using the proper name Raysium and following the naming format for God metals based on the names of the Shardholders not the Shards. Take an upvote for that.

[Moogle]

It seems not unlikely that harmonium itself can be alloyed with any of the sixteen base metals as well, giving another set of powers. I'd also suspect that if that's the case, then why limit an alloy to only having two godmetals? Why not a godmetal of Honor + Odium + Cultivation, as well as its 16 base metal alloys?

[ccstat he/him]

A few thoughts, mostly about the point of this exercise. At the outset, I agree that lots of metals means lots of complicated interactions and abilities, and there seems to be a huge number to deal with. But, how much does that matter? Does including godmetals really gain us thousands of metallic abilities?

 

First, though this makes little difference to the math, So, I would suggest using a 2x multiplier instead of 3x for the different metallic arts, since I don't think that dealing with the three together makes sense, given how differently hemalurgy functions compared with the other two. The identity of a hemalurgic metal doesn't really translate into a new ability per se. Yes, it steals some other attribute, but for simple spikings the spikee then operates within the rules of whatever was stolen. For hemalurgic constructs, there is a lot we still don't know, but the arrangement of spikes seems much more important than what those spikes are made of. Theoretically you could make an inquisitor with all steel spikes, or all brass, for example. 

 

Second, it seems that the so-called godmetals are significantly more complicated than this combinatorial approach. WoB is that we are missing some important information on how they work in all the metallic arts. We do know that a knowledgeable mistborn could get an unknown effect out of lerasium, but the basic function appears to be granting of allomantic powers. Importantly, a lerasium-steel alloy will make you into a steel misting. That's not a new ability so much as a way to gain access to the ones we already know. If this pattern (godmetal gives you lots of abilities, godmetal alloy only gives you one) is true for the unknown lerasium function as well, then even a knowledgeable user would gain nothing by alloying the godmetal. It would be more useful to keep the godmetal pure. In my mind, alloying a godmetal will in most cases lead to a limiting (or, at best, specialization) of potential, not enhancement.

 

Third, regardless of whether there are a few hundred metals or hundreds of thousands of permutations, I think that extending the numbers this way will largely result in redundancies. This is particularly clear for Feruchemy, since there is really only so much of a person to be stored or tapped--there is only so much magical space to fill. Two of the base metals can already store physical speed and mental speed, and there are a dozen threads here that discuss the overlap between the two. I suspect that the more metals you add, the more overlap you will see between abilities. "So you can store calories and mass? Well, with my Aonium-based metalminds I can store fat and buoyancy!"

 

Allomancy has a little more room to spread out, but since magic from all the worlds works on similar principles, I suspect you will get similar effects from various alloys. And even when the abilities are different, their practical application ends up being fairly similar. If burning a Tanavastium-Steel alloy gives you access to one of the Windrunner lashings, for example, your gravity-based "steel jumping" will look a whole lot like the usual kind.

 

I definitely recognize that there are important distinctions between related power sets, but my point is that having a huge number of metals doesn't ultimately grant you access to an unimaginable space of magical power. 

[DreamEternal]

We do know that a knowledgeable mistborn could get an unknown effect out of lerasium, but the basic function appears to be granting of allomantic powers.

That is not true. If a mistborn burned Lerasium blindly, he would just get allomanticaly stronger. The true function of lerasium is rewriting your spiritweb, and it defaults to increasing your connection to preservation when you don't use any hacks.

[ccstat he/him]

Thanks for the clarification, though i don't think it changes the substance of what I said. I based my comment on the Coppermind entry, which references the annotations.

Turning people into Mistborn is only a side effect of burning lerasium; if someone who knew how to use it correctly were to burn it, it would have a different, as of yet, unknown effect. Someone knowledgeable enough could use the rewrite of their spiritual DNA to achieve a different result than becoming a Mistborn.

I agree with you that the function is rewriting sDNA, but I still think we know too little about what that means, so functionally the effect can still qualify as unknown. Even if not, the idea seems supported that the wider possibilities of Lerasium are more restricted in alloyed form. Edited January 2, 2016 by ccstat

[DreamEternal]

Yes and I sort off skipped the "knowledgeable" part, and assumed you only meant it would have a different effect if Vin had burned it. Althought I still think you don't need to be a mistborn to access this other effect.

[Moogle]

Second, it seems that the so-called godmetals are significantly more complicated than this combinatorial approach. WoB is that we are missing some important information on how they work in all the metallic arts. We do know that a knowledgeable mistborn could get an unknown effect out of lerasium, but the basic function appears to be granting of allomantic powers. Importantly, a lerasium-steel alloy will make you into a steel misting. That's not a new ability so much as a way to gain access to the ones we already know. If this pattern (godmetal gives you lots of abilities, godmetal alloy only gives you one) is true for the unknown lerasium function as well, then even a knowledgeable user would gain nothing by alloying the godmetal. It would be more useful to keep the godmetal pure. In my mind, alloying a godmetal will in most cases lead to a limiting (or, at best, specialization) of potential, not enhancement.

 

I don't agree with the thrust of your argument here. Malatium is fueled by Ruin and gives a fundamentally different effect from the regular metals: viewing the pasts of others. Yes, gold has this ability for yourself, but it is clear that filtering another Shard's power through metals will, in the case of Allomancy, give you abilities you simply cannot get any other way.

 

There are valid uses of malatium that atium does not cover by itself.

 

I think you're on to something in general. Atium steals anything in Hemalurgy, so why alloy it? Lerasium grants all Allomantic abilities, so why alloy it? But the key part is that we're using the Shard's own Investiture in their own system - the moment we use a foreign Shard's Investiture in a Shard's system, we get an effect like malatium: something you can't possibly replicate by normal Allomancy. Similarly, I would expect the use of lerasium to grant something interesting you cannot get with atium alone - perhaps not related to what it can steal, but how it steals it, or how the attribute decays.

 

I do agree with you that a combinatorial explosion of abilities is likely to lead to a lot of "similar" abilities, and most of what you wrote, but I do disagree with you specifically on that part.

[ccstat he/him]

Thanks for the analysis, Moogle. That's an interesting perspective on it. I'm going to have to think about it some more.

[Sandastron]

 

 

First, though this makes little difference to the math, So, I would suggest using a 2x multiplier instead of 3x for the different metallic arts, since I don't think that dealing with the three together makes sense, given how differently hemalurgy functions compared with the other two. The identity of a hemalurgic metal doesn't really translate into a new ability per se. Yes, it steals some other attribute, but for simple spikings the spikee then operates within the rules of whatever was stolen. For hemalurgic constructs, there is a lot we still don't know, but the arrangement of spikes seems much more important than what those spikes are made of. Theoretically you could make an inquisitor with all steel spikes, or all brass, for example. 

 

 

Third, regardless of whether there are a few hundred metals or hundreds of thousands of permutations, I think that extending the numbers this way will largely result in redundancies. This is particularly clear for Feruchemy, since there is really only so much of a person to be stored or tapped--there is only so much magical space to fill. Two of the base metals can already store physical speed and mental speed, and there are a dozen threads here that discuss the overlap between the two. I suspect that the more metals you add, the more overlap you will see between abilities. "So you can store calories and mass? Well, with my Aonium-based metalminds I can store fat and buoyancy!"

 

 

 

ccstat, I think you have a point. If I am right that there are so many usable metals, then there will be significant overlap. However, I don't think there will be as much overlap as you think. For instance, I think Feruchemy has plenty of room to expand. How about height? Fill to be short, tap to get tall. Or there could be durability, melanin levels, awareness of cognitive realm, etc. I also think there is a lot we don't know about hemalurgy. With the first twelve metals, I believe you can already steal all allomantic and feruchemic abilities in addition to giving the four blessings. That leaves four metals which steal something unknown. Brandon has been hinting for a while that there are things that can be done with hemalurgy that are far beyond what it has previously been used for.

In addition, we do have a WoB somewhere that says that gaining mistborn abilities is just a side affect of burning lerasium and it has some other purpose.

Basically what I'm getting at is that Brandon still has a lot more cards up his sleeve in regards to the metalic arts than we might think at the moment.

 

 

I also agree with moogle. As far as we know at the moment, alloying lerasium might be pointless. I suspect that some unlucky scandrian will discover this while wasting a lot of valuable metals in the process. Or maybe Brandon will surprise us. That wouldn't be like him at all.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Sandastron

[Stormgate he/him]

Maybe burning a Lerasium alloy makes you an instant savant in whatever metal the Lerasium is alloyed with.