Vortaan Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Eriod, I'm glad to see you delurk yourself. I also have taken an intrest to the force that opposed Adonalsium lately. Since there is no mention of such a thing in the books - at least not that we're aware of - its almost impossible to come to any concrete conclusions. However, I have done a small speculation myself but, rather than your God Beyond theory, which I've upvoted for the question's your puzzling over if nothing else, I limited myself to more metaspeculation. Here's what I've come up with. Adonalsium is the power of creation. Something from Nothing, if you will. The only logical thing that could oppose it would be the power of unmaking. I hesitate to call it destruction because this force, which I think of as the Void, would be Nothing from Something. Destruction isn't thourough enough. If you shatter a stained glass window, the shards remain. It's the Laws of Thermodynamics. If Adonalsium violates those laws (Something from Nothing) then its opposite must also break them (Nothing from Something.) I'm fairly certain I'm right about this. It would be like Ruin and Preservation taken to extremes. Rather than acting like Entropy, Ruin, or the Void in this comparison, would literally remove things from existence. Rather than acting like Stasis, Preservation, or Adonalsium in this comparison, would literally create from nothing. Now, this is where my certainty ends. But bear with me. Rayse is the original holder of Odium. Hoid knew Rayse. Hoid was at the Shattering of Adonalsium. Therefore, I believe Rayse, along with the other original holder of the Shards of Adonalsium, were also present at the Shattering. Now, if these individuals had enough knowledge of the Cosmere to both know what Adonalsium was and to be able to Shatter it, I believe its reasonable to assume they were also aware of the Void that opposed Adonalsium. Odium is hatred. He inspires hatred in others. I wonder...does he hate himself as well? Is it is goal to bring all of the Cosmere to Nothingness? To Bring the Void? Could his agents be the Voidbringers? Like I said. It's mostly metaspeculation. About a week ago I bought a hardcover Way of Kings from Brandon Sanderson's store and, for my personalisation I asked, "Please tell me something about Odium that no one knows about yet." But I wish I had asked about the force that opposes Adonalsium. Anyway, good theory Eriond! I see your points, but I really hope this isn't what Brandon's going for. It seems like... well, it seems like lazy writing. Like something from a not-great Saturday morning cartoon. I guess time will tell, but I'd much rather the God Beyond be something more along the lines of something competing, not an opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The word used isn't "opposite," it's "opposed." Dockson was "opposed" to the Lord Ruler's domination of the Final Empire. Would you consider him equal to the Lord Ruler in power? The question was intentionally vague to avoid a RAFO. All we know is that, prior to the Shattering, there was someone or something that "opposed" Adonalsium, and that it has survived, in some form, to the present day. Maybe it was an equal and opposite force. Maybe it was a person. Maybe it was an unusually opinionated bit of pocket lint. A strong argument could actually be made that it was the Seventeenth Shard, or perhaps Hoid. Brandon has recently referred to Adonalsium as "he." This can probably be taken as confirmation that Adonalsium was a person - or at least, that he had personifiable characteristics. Therefore, even if the phrase "power of creation" can be taken as meaning that Adonalsium was basically a bigger Shard named Creation (which is in no way certain), you don't have to be his opposite to oppose his opinions. I don't have to be aligned with Ruin to be against Preservation's decision to sacrifice herself in Hero of Ages. This decision was not based on some core ideal of Preservation, but rather on Vin's own personality. The book even mentions that it was a very Ruin-ish thing to do. My overall point is that just because something opposed Adonalsium, doesn't mean it has to be his the Yin to his Yang. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 The word used isn't "opposite," it's "opposed." Dockson was "opposed" to the Lord Ruler's domination of the Final Empire. Would you consider him equal to the Lord Ruler in power? The question was intentionally vague to avoid a RAFO. All we know is that, prior to the Shattering, there was someone or something that "opposed" Adonalsium, and that it has survived, in some form, to the present day. Maybe it was an equal and opposite force. Maybe it was a person. Maybe it was an unusually opinionated bit of pocket lint. A strong argument could actually be made that it was the Seventeenth Shard, or perhaps Hoid. Brandon has recently referred to Adonalsium as "he." This can probably be taken as confirmation that Adonalsium was a person - or at least, that he had personifiable characteristics. Therefore, even if the phrase "power of creation" can be taken as meaning that Adonalsium was basically a bigger Shard named Creation (which is in no way certain), you don't have to be his opposite to oppose his opinions. I don't have to be aligned with Ruin to be against Preservation's decision to sacrifice herself in Hero of Ages. This decision was not based on some core ideal of Preservation, but rather on Vin's own personality. The book even mentions that it was a very Ruin-ish thing to do. My overall point is that just because something opposed Adonalsium, doesn't mean it has to be his the Yin to his Yang. Please read the person I quoted. He was specifically saying an opposite, an Entropy to Adonalsium's Creation. I'm personally opposed to that idea, and I agree with you that something opposing or competing with Adonalsium without being it's opposite would probably be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonko the Sane Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 Please read the person I quoted. He was specifically saying an opposite, an Entropy to Adonalsium's Creation. I'm personally opposed to that idea, and I agree with you that something opposing or competing with Adonalsium without being it's opposite would probably be better. I wasn't talking to you. Sorry. I was talking to the same person you were; I just took so long to write my post that I didn't see all the posts in between. I understand that you agree with me. Honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted January 19, 2014 Report Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Brandon told us planets have souls. (It's answer #7.) I don't think anyone's asked him if the galaxy or cosmere has a soul, but if it does, that's my current bet for the God Beyond. We know raw investiture is somehow dangerous, because of Sel and the comment about Kelsier holding Preservation. So I think too much Spiritual "connection" absorbs everything into one being, while the Cognitive Realm opposes that by giving things individuality. Edited January 19, 2014 by Morsk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khmauv Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Brandon told us planets have souls. (It's answer #7.) I don't think anyone's asked him if the galaxy or cosmere has a soul, but if it does, that's my current bet for the God Beyond. We know raw investiture is somehow dangerous, because of Sel and the comment about Kelsier holding Preservation. So I think too much Spiritual "connection" absorbs everything into one being, while the Cognitive Realm opposes that by giving things individuality. I really like this thought. I am not sure why but it rings true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I wasn't talking to you. Sorry. I was talking to the same person you were; I just took so long to write my post that I didn't see all the posts in between. I understand that you agree with me. Honest! Likewise apologies. Quoting whom you're talking to helps avoid confusion though. No harm meant, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elementalist Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Joking: Maybe the god beyond is Mr. Sanderson himself. It would fit with Hoid's breaking the fourth wall in tWoK. Reality: I dunno. I guess I like the Cthulu theory. EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, the "soul of the cosmere" theory seems better, if only because it has the "planets have souls" evidence behind it. Edited January 24, 2014 by Power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18th Shard Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yeah, definently not Mormon propaganda. I'm Mormon, and unless you consider including a God at all, I can't find any resemblence to our church. Best guess is Adonalsium. Hoid is another candidate you can't leave out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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