Chapters 3-5 up on Tor

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

"62 days death (broken) follows."  So is that message from the Parshendi?  The entry from Navani's journal seems to imply that.

 

And can we please get a date for something besides an epigraph?  It's only been two weeks for Kaladin since the of Words of Radiance, and no one has mentioned the coming Weeping yet, so we're still firmly in 1173. 

 

It's pretty much impossible to match up epigraph dates with in book events.  The "but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes." bit isn't helpful unless we can be entirely sure what is meant by "the Everstorm".  The 62 days doesn't quite seem to match up with it, since that would put us only at 1173-5-2-4. (year-month-week-day)  That's a more than half a year away from the Navani's journal entry that we're getting now.  It's possible, but much farther from the end of the year than I thought, and it means the "above the final void I hang" epigraph would be referring to an event two whole months before it was given.

 

Shallan's thoughts about (literally) drawing her spren into the Physical Realm made it sound like a fractal pattern, which was never an impression I'd gotten before when she talked about "impossible geometries."  Wait a second... Are their heads snowflakes? 

 

Moash is still angry, I wonder if he's ever going to kill that person he wants to kill.  And Sigzil tries his best to be scholarly.  Maybe we should set him up with Jasnah.

[KiManiak he/him]

In regards to Shallan’s spren, I was reminded of the Interlude with the 2 ardents (Geranid and Ashir) where one ardent was measuring the spren.  By measuring (defining it, maybe?) the spren, she set the spren firmly in place (until she erased the measurements).

 

I wonder if the action of drawing the pattern the way Shallan did, locked her spren into that shape?  Maybe she defined the spren to be that Pattern. 

 

Here’s where the wild speculation comes in:  What if the Pattern is the early developmental stages of Cryptics?  Furthermore what if, given time, the Pattern Shallan was observing would have developed into something closer to the Cryptics we have seen before, and would have been able to better interact with her? 

 

Basically, what if Shallan’s capturing of the Pattern on paper defined it as an infantile/juvenile Cryptic, and she must now wait and work with it for it to mature and develop?

 

 

And, I see I was "ninja'd" by AG Rooster while typing this!  So be it... upvote to you, sir!

Edited January 14, 2014 by KiManiak

[Kurkistan he/him]

Scandalous! Jasnah is walking around with her safehand uncovered.

 

Peter, if you read this, could you confirm that this isn't an error?

 

She could be wearing a glove like Shallan does, due to the late hour.

 

Also, apparently the taboo, at least among other women, isn't as strong as we think. Shallan had her safehand uncovered in her room and was fine with leaving it uncovered to rush and get Jasnah faster. That and Jasnah's “put on some clothing" are a weaker reactions than we'd expect for violations of stronger taboos.

 

That indicates that a woman having her safehand uncovered isn't quite like walking around naked. More like in your underwear or something?

 

*Stops talking about women running around naked/in-underwear* 

Edited January 14, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

Except I don't think that Shallan's spren was bound against its will.  "As the last line dried, the pattern rose before her. She heard a distinct sigh from the paper, as if in relief."  It wanted to come through, but I do seem some merit to the idea that it was brought in an immature state, this spiral snowflake pattern is said to have infinite complexity, so even if Shallan drew it to the best of her ability, it still has to develop the rest of the way on its own.

 

Also, Chapter 5 had double Chach as its Headings, which marks the first time we've seem him used in the Stormlight Archive.  Chach is

Number=3; Gemstone=Ruby; Essence=Spark; Body Focus=The Soul; Soulcasting properties=Fire;

Divine Attributes=Brave/Obedient.

           

 

Edited January 14, 2014 by Cheese Ninja

[Shardlet he/him]

Woah, Jasnah knows of Honor and Cultivation? Oh, but she treats them like man-made deities. That's funny.

 

Are they not man-made deities?  While the Shards are truly powerful, they are not gods (except arguably in the case of Ruin and Preservation).

 

 

Heh, Radiants used to have cell phones.

 

I still say she's talking to her spren.

 

62 days until the Last Desolation? That's awfully specific. If true, it also means that the Desolations, or at least the Everstorm, are pretty specific events, not a continuation of things happening. Almost like eclipses, or equinoxes. Maybe my cosmic alignment idea wasn't all that bad?

 

 

I think 62 days is how long until the Everstorm (or a more tangible harbinger of it) begins.  I doubt it will be a single day event.  Although, it may be Szeth giving Dalinar warning and also taking time to ascertain the situation.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Shardlet

[Harsh Varia he/him]

I think Shallan's spren is behaving like Syl. In WoK initially Syl acted like a windspren and played pranks. Only later did she start talking to kaladin. I believe as time goes by the cryptic will mature.

[cem he/him]

God, I haven't hated any fictional character as much as I hate Adolin since Gawyn Trakand. I just hope he and Kaladin don't become best buddies after some clichéd male-bonding thingie, and Shallan doesn't go through with the marriage.

[Moogle]

Many upvotes for bringing up Szeth as a potential wall-writer, Shardlet. That was something that never occurred to me.

[Harsh Varia he/him]

God, I haven't hated any fictional character as much as I hate Adolin since Gawyn Trakand. I just hope he and Kaladin don't become best buddies after some clichéd male-bonding thingie, and Shallan doesn't go through with the marriage.

Oh I don't think anyone can be as bad as Gawyn. The entire trakand family gets an award for worst fantasy characters ever. Don't know why people hate Adolin so much. He still has some promise.

[Moogle]

Sixty-two days, the glyphs read. Death follows.

“Ah,” said Rushu—a young female ardent with long eyelashes and buttonlike lips. “Look at the sloppy lines! The improper symmetry. Whoever did this is not practiced with drawing glyphs. They almost spelled death wrong—it looks more like ‘broken.’ And the meaning is vague. Death follows? Or is it ‘follow death’? Or Sixty-Two Days of Death and Following? Glyphs are imprecise.”

 

Anyone want to bet that this is in no way 'almost spelled wrong'? It sounds like the people could be something broken and there be death.

 

Edit: Something small I also didn't remark on, but holy crap is Sadeas a boring villain. His motivations are literally "I want to conquer everything just 'cuz, also my wife has assassins." Does he have any redeeming qualities? His short POV killed what little depth he might have had from TWoK.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

They mention Sadeas' name in WoK, or at least it's somehwere out there because it was in the coppermind when I was looking up how to spell it the other day.

 

Maybe Shallan's spren is "weak" or "dumb" because she used ink to physically bind it in the physical realm against it's will by drawing it.

I thought the same thing about drawing. She is either going to have to release it somehow and draw it better, or it is going to learn like Syl did. Honestly I hope they learn about the recording thing and Shallan realizes she has to erase.... 

ANYWAY, great chapters. I don't want to do a big post about them, but the pace of this book is already delightful; I mean we get right into it. Great to see Orders.... what, 1,6,7, and 9 (?) will all be in the same place? I bet Order 2 is on his way, and I pray we get loads of Order 4 at some point. Geez, Dalinar's job isn't so tough. That's like half done hahaha. 

[FeatherWriter she/her]

My own, vaguely coherent, mostly shouting liveblog can be found over here. (EDIT: Also heavy apologies to Chaos, who got all of that in his Skype inbox as I was reading. It's his own fault for sending me the link though.)I won't copy paste it since it's kinda long, though I know some other people have. (Y'all are all so composed and using full sentences and I'm just running stream of consciousness as I read.)
 
And now to respond to what other peeps are saying:

Something made Dalinar fall asleep, then left a message.  I don't think a spren could actually write the message.  Renarin's spren helped Dalinar sleep, then Renarin wrote the message?  Just a wild idea, doesn't seem likely.

 
OH NO THAT'S ADORABLE AND NOW I'M GOING TO HESITANTLY HEADCANON THAT BECAUSE RENARIN WRITING AND HE CAN'T DRAW GLYPHS WELL AND AAAAH
 

They mention Sadeas' name in WoK, or at least it's somehwere out there because it was in the coppermind when I was looking up how to spell it the other day.
 
Maybe Shallan's spren is "weak" or "dumb" because see used ink to physically bind it in the physical realm against it's will but drawing it.

It's when Elhokar promotes him to Highprince of Information if I remember correctly. Elhokar is the one who says it.
 

She could be wearing a glove like Shallan does, due to the late hour.
 
Also, apparently the taboo, at least among other women, isn't as strong as we think. Shallan had her safehand uncovered in her room and was fine with leaving it uncovered to rush and get Jasnah faster. That and Jasnah's “put on some clothing" are a weaker reactions than we'd expect for violations of stronger taboos.
 
That indicates that a woman having her safehand uncovered isn't quite like walking around naked. More like in your underwear or something?
 
*Stops talking about women running around naked/in-underwear*  

I tend to think that our real-world modesty analogue would be the midriff actually. So, prostitutes and waitresses in sleazy joints go around with it uncovered, but it would be incredibly inappropirate to not have it covered in almost all situations, especially for those of higher birth. Also, there's less of a restriction on men showing midsection skin than women. So it'd be something like Shallan and Jasnah walking around in a cropped top perhaps.
 

God, I haven't hated any fictional character as much as I hate Adolin since Gawyn Trakand. I just hope he and Kaladin don't become best buddies after some clichéd male-bonding thingie, and Shallan doesn't go through with the marriage.

 
Oh I don't think anyone can be as bad as Gawyn. The entire trakand family gets an award for worst fantasy characters ever. Don't know why people hate Adolin so much. He still has some promise.

Funny, Adolin's now one of my favorite characters and this chapter has made me like him even more. Though that could just be because I'm a huge fan of his and Kaladin's current dynamic and am currently hoping that it continues to be a thing. It is just so terribly amusing. *hesitantly starts waving Kaladin <3< Adolin flag*

Edited January 14, 2014 by FeatherWriter

[WhiskeyJackDaniels he/him]

Does anyone know how many pages chapters P-5 are in the actual book? I'm not really complaining that it's available now, but it does seem like more than most publishers release ahead of time for a book...

[Gamma Fiend he/him]

Also, anybody notice Elokhar's surprise or lack of information regarding Kaladin?

He didn't know Dalinar had a new bodyguard retinue and he didn't know about Kaladin being a dark-eyed captain.
How the hell is the King so unattached with the news and current events of his camp?
I understand he's kind of an imbecile at times, and has to "overlook" the 10 war camps, but don't you think he should pay more attention to his Uncle and his actions, especially considering how much Dalinar is taking over?

Like, it seemed he was genuinely mystified by Kaladin being there and the circumstances leading up to it.
How can you not even hear rumors of your Highprince of War buying out and using former bridge-crews as new soldiers and guards, or hear about the newly appointed Captain?

Elokhar really needs to get his crap together.

 

Edit: I think somebody said the first 10 chapters were released for WoK beforehand over time. So the first 5 chapters a few months ahead of time doesn't seem like too much in comparison.
Yeah, most publishers and stuff don't seem to release as much beforehand... but that's what makes Tor and Brandon Sanderson so gosh-darn awesome, amirite?

Edited January 14, 2014 by Gamma Fiend

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Also, anybody notice Elokhar's surprise or lack of information regarding Kaladin?

He didn't know Dalinar had a new bodyguard retinue and he didn't know about Kaladin being a dark-eyed captain.

How the hell is the King so unattached with the news and current events of his camp?

I understand he's kind of an imbecile at times, and has to "overlook" the 10 war camps, but don't you think he should pay more attention to his Uncle and his actions, especially considering how much Dalinar is taking over?

Like, it seemed he was genuinely mystified by Kaladin being there and the circumstances leading up to it.

How can you not even hear rumors of your Highprince of War buying out and using former bridge-crews as new soldiers and guards, or hear about the newly appointed Captain?

Elokhar really needs to get his crap together.

 

Edit: I think somebody said the first 10 chapters were released for WoK beforehand over time. So the first 5 chapters a few months ahead of time doesn't seem like too much in comparison.

Yeah, most publishers and stuff don't seem to release as much beforehand... but that's what makes Tor and Brandon Sanderson so gosh-darn awesome, amirite?

Yes, youarerite.

But that Elhokar point might be purposefully there so that we recall that he is extremely paranoid and, in all likelihood, hasn't talked to many other people. Maybe he visited the Nightwatcher and he has to be stupid on all the days Mr. T. is smart

[Havoc]

Does anyone know how many pages chapters P-5 are in the actual book? I'm not really complaining that it's available now, but it does seem like more than most publishers release ahead of time for a book...

 

I think there are some transcription errors that might answer the question:

 

“Was once the definition of what initiated one into the Knights Radi68 ant,” Jasnah said.

 

“A prescribed rotation will detail which highprinces and armies are re84 sponsible for hunting gemhearts, and in what order.

 

If those are page numbers, like I think they are, we're probably up to something like page 120 by the end of chapter 5.

[Jaconis]

<p>

[*]62 days until the Last Desolation? That's awfully specific. If true, it also means that the Desolations, or at least the Everstorm, are pretty specific events, not a continuation of things happening. Almost like eclipses, or equinoxes. Maybe my cosmic alignment idea wasn't all that bad?

The Almighty turned to him. “I was surprised when these orders arrived. I did not teach my Heralds this. It was the spren—wishing to imitate what I had given men—who made it possible. You will need to refound them. This is your task. Unite them. Create a fortress that can weather the storm. Vex Odium, convince him that he can lose, and appoint a champion. He will take that chance instead of risking defeat again, as he has suffered so often. This is the best advice I can give you.”

I think, based on the above quote, the Desolations were Odium's attempts to defeat Honor (and possibly Cultivation). "He will take that chance instead of risking defeat again, as he had suffered so often." We know there were many desolations. I think the Oathpact was an agreement between Odium and Honor that stated Odium could only attack the world at certain times or with limited power, and in exchange Honor's Heralds would be forced to go to Odium's "realm" where Odium would be allowed to do whatever he wanted to them.

Thus when nearly all the Heralds chose to not return to Odium, he was no longer required to uphold his end of the bargain. It may even have been that Taln alone was restraining Odium's influence while he stayed there, and his failure was that he could no longer endure the torture, returning to the physical world and allowing Odium to be free to do what he wants.

On a separate subject, does anyone else think Odium may be responsible for Vorin teachings since the Sunmaker? Sadeas' POV sparked this for me. He talks of how training soldiers and fighting are a man's greatest goals, which would only open them up to the thrill.

[cem he/him]

Oh I don't think anyone can be as bad as Gawyn. The entire trakand family gets an award for worst fantasy characters ever. Don't know why people hate Adolin so much. He still has some promise.

You underestimate Adolin's power.

Seriously though, part of the reason I hate Adolin is because of how much he reminds me of Gawyn. They are basically the same characters in my mind, especially after Brandon took over WoT, only Adolin doesn't have as much angst--yet. So his annoying-ness becomes compounded.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I think there are some transcription errors that might answer the question:

 

 

 

If those are page numbers, like I think they are, we're probably up to something like page 120 by the end of chapter 5.

 

I don't think those would be page numbers.  I sincerely doubt that they would release over a tenth of the book, WoR is only 1088 pages long after all.

[Elwynn]

Love the midriff analogy feather, spot on to me.  Liking Adolin

 

Elhokar seems...un-knight-worthy to me right now, kind of confused about his whole character at this point (a la gamma's observations and his 'most likely having a spren watching him').

 

But did anyone notice that's most likely a larkin on his desk?  Maybe even the dead ones stil have a use, or they're like locust or something else and come back to life with some stormlight.  Obviously tied to the radiants, and personally I think they have a use besides helping Darkness steal awesomeness.

 

And a big echo to all questions and awe put forth before; never imagined getting this much cosmere-spren-shadesmar info so quickly.

[Shardbearer he/him]

Someone needs to slap Jasnah for telling Shallan to study her spren and write things down about it. That can't be good.

[Jaconis]

I don't think those would be page numbers. I sincerely doubt that they would release over a tenth of the book, WoR is only 1088 pages long after all.

I agree. Chapters and number of pages obviously don't have to correlate but I think it's a reasonable guess. There are 75 chapters in WoK, plus prelude, prologue, epilogue and 9 interludes. And it's shorter than WoR. If these six chapters (counting the prologue) are really 10% of the book, we are only getting 55-65 chapters, where the shorter book has closer to 90.

Could just be shorter chapters, but I think the numbers aren't book page numbers, maybe manuscript page numbers?

[Swimmingly he/him]

I laughed out loud when I saw Cryptics called "liespren".

Brandon/Peter must have been holding back laughter for years at us calling them "Truthspren".

On a more serious note, why are they called liespren? Are they attracted to great acts of storytelling? The Transformation and Illumination (Illusion) Order of the KR fits this perfectly. Shallan, living a lie, assuming the mantle of a profession devoted to truth, becomes a master of transformation and illusion. Her secrets are powerful because she values them so deeply - and because her illusions are powered by truth via the spren, all her lies have a truth at their core, while all the truths she speaks are devoted to maintaining a lie.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Love the midriff analogy feather, spot on to me.  Liking Adolin

 

Yay, I'm glad! It always seemed a very apt analogue to me. This just in: I think about Vorin gender roles FAAAR more than is probably healthy. They're just so stinking fascinating. And I'm glad you're liking Adolin! Poor boy seems to be taking some flack over here, and he's growing nearer and dearer to my heart because of it.

 

Someone needs to slap Jasnah for telling Shallan to study her spren and write things down about it. That can't be good.

 

....what? I'm really confused, is this a joke or something? How is Shallan studying her spren and learning more about it while taking notes for others to learn from a bad thing?

[Inkthinker]

 

....what? I'm really confused, is this a joke or something? How is Shallan studying her spren and learning more about it while taking notes for others to learn from a bad thing?

 

In one of the Kings Interludes, it's shown that to record information about a spren is to make it more "real", sort of a quantum observation thing.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Inkthinker