Radiant Returned he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 This is a question that has been bugging me ever since I started re-reading The Stormlight Archive. We know the Heralds aren't Shardholders (like Tanavast), and I've seen some mentions in a quick read through of them maybe being powered through Honor, but what separated the Heralds from the other humans, like the Radiants besides coming first? It's known that the Heralds were first and that the Radiants were based off of them, but is describing them as "gods" really accurate? Or just about as accurate as calling the Radiants gods because they are more powerful, but not for any real theological reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Heralds seem to have been given power directly by Honor, giving them immortality and, judging by "Taln", enhanced reaction speeds. Describing them as "gods" is probably inaccurate, but it depends on your definition. I wouldn't consider Syl a god for example, but it is true that she is a small piece of Honor. Similarly, Heralds likely have a small piece of Honor in them. Warbreaker spoilers: That last thing seems much like the Returned have Endowment. And the Heralds are very similar to the Returned, such as returning from the dead, biological immortality, and enhanced physical attributes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 This is a question that has been bugging me ever since I started re-reading The Stormlight Archive. We know the Heralds aren't Shardholders (like Tanavast), and I've seen some mentions in a quick read through of them maybe being powered through Honor, but what separated the Heralds from the other humans, like the Radiants besides coming first? It's known that the Heralds were first and that the Radiants were based off of them, but is describing them as "gods" really accurate? Or just about as accurate as calling the Radiants gods because they are more powerful, but not for any real theological reason? Divinity is... subjective, so to say. Some may say the Shards are only very, very powerful people, some may believe there is a God beyond the powers derived from Adonalsium, some may worship mortal men as gods on earth because of their power and virtue. The Heralds... they were the choosen of Honor, and it is implied he altered them in a way that makes them greater than normal humans, even without the power of the Honorblades. If they count as gods or not, that is subjective. The closest comparison to the Heralds would be somewhere between the Elantrians and Returned, but they get more credit for their previous role in the protection of mankind in my opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 They're kind of like mythological heroes who got deified. They had supernatural abilities and were favored by gods and then were worshipped as divine beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Like Epics! Sort of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC01 he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm pretty sure that the Returned are probably the closest comparison. It seems to me that Elantrians are more like other magic users than they they are like Heralds or Returned. The thing about the Returned is that they are Splinters, in a sense, but they don't work like seons, skaze, or spren. They're more like Splinterholders, as the sapience remains in the human, and the Splinter itself doesn't become a sapient magic being. Now, the honorblades must certainly be Splinters, and the Heralds' abilities must be somehow linked. Naturally, having a sword isn't the same as a Divine Breath being part of your being, but I still think that that's the closest comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Elantrians live for about 100 years... About as long as the average Steel Inquisitors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charononus Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Elantrians live for about 100 years... About as long as the average Steel Inquisitors. Pretty sure that it's been said that they're immortal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 22, 2015 Report Share Posted December 22, 2015 Pretty sure that it's been said that they're immortal. Yeah The Elantrians are immortal and it probably the stressfull method to be immortal (a WoB states that be an Elantrian is very stressfull) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted December 23, 2015 Report Share Posted December 23, 2015 It seems to me that Elantrians are more like other magic users than they they are like Heralds or Returned. Aren't Elantrians fireproof, immortal regenerators with so much energy flowing through them that they need only give it directions and they can literally overwrite reality? I can imagine the heralds being a LOT like Elantrians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Aren't Elantrians fireproof, immortal regenerators with so much energy flowing through them that they need only give it directions and they can literally overwrite reality? I can imagine the heralds being a LOT like Elantrians. Yeah, but we're discussing teological point of view. Nobody's making comparisons about extent of their powers, only how they're viewed by people and why. As I stated before, they are the ones chosen by Almighty to lead humanity against forces of evil. They also tend to return every time the end of the world comes, so they're immortal (people rather don't know about 'being tortured in hell' part, but I think they're reconstructed on Braize). If that's not material for religion, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Yeah, but we're discussing teological point of view. Nobody's making comparisons about extent of their powers, only how they're viewed by people and why. As I stated before, they are the ones chosen by Almighty to lead humanity against forces of evil. They also tend to return every time the end of the world comes, so they're immortal (people rather don't know about 'being tortured in hell' part, but I think they're reconstructed on Braize). If that's not material for religion, I don't know what is. I don't understand how any of what you said contradicts that Elantrians form a good comparison with the Heralds, since they are both glowy with great power and seem as divine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 I am not saying they're bad comparison. I'm saying that focusing on things like whether Elantrians are fireproof or not is not important; we should approach the topic from Realmatical point of view (to assess godhood based on what we know) and from in-universe point of view (to assess godhood from a point of view of people interacting with them).So Heralds are humans (probably), they may be Rosharan (if they're pre-Shattering humans it would be important or if they were from another Shardworld this could give them mixed Investiture), they're possessing Honorblades which are imbued with Honor's (maybe Cultivation had a hand in them? We don't know, they could even be Splinters) power, which are giving them Surgebinding abilities. Apart from that for them death means being transported to another planet where they cannot die, or die repeteadly. So either they can reincarnate or they're reconstructed on Braize. We don't know their physical abilities, we have seen only Taln (and we're not sure about his being Herald) and he did possess superhuman reflexes, but maybe it was just loooong training (ten thousand years of 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats and 10km running daily. Catch the reference ) and he seemed to react to Stormlight, but he may have just seen what Shallan was doing. On the other hand, Nalan was able to sense Lift getting Invested with Stormlight when she metabolized food into it, and at that time he wasn't looking at her.We don't know much and what I listed above gives little understanding of what they are, Realmatically but they do score quite high on the power list. While Rashek is top of the list (we don't include Shards), Heralds definitely beat one on one Knights Radiant, Mistborn without or with limited supply of atium, average Awakeners (I want to see a battle between Awakeners). We don't know extent of Elantrian powers, but AonDor has very much potential.From point of view of average person in cosmere, they're chosen ones of Almighty to help, teach, lead and protect humanity against evil Voidbringers during recurring Apocalypses, they're the first Surgebinders, they represent symmetry (5 men and 5 women, some symmetrical names). That's some serious theological material for divine beings.BTW, what do we know of Elantrians Realmatically? Why do they change to look like this? How their spiritweb looks like? Was this discussed somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler he/him Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) but maybe it was just loooong training (ten thousand years of 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, 100 squats and 10km running daily. Catch the reference )ONE PUUUUNCH! Who would win, OPM or Talenelat? Hell OPM vs any Herald would be a good fight. Edited December 24, 2015 by The Ninja Yodeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Yeah, but we're discussing teological point of view. Nobody's making comparisons about extent of their powers, only how they're viewed by people and why. As I stated before, they are the ones chosen by Almighty to lead humanity against forces of evil. They also tend to return every time the end of the world comes, so they're immortal (people rather don't know about 'being tortured in hell' part, but I think they're reconstructed on Braize). If that's not material for religion, I don't know what is. wait wait wait... Elantrians are immortal as "infinite lifespan"(can't die of old age). They can be killed with any ordinary means that would kill any other Human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 wait wait wait... Elantrians are immortal as "infinite lifespan"(can't die of old age). They can be killed with any ordinary means that would kill any other Human. Any other human? I havent read Elantris yet, but don't they regenarate almost any wound very quickly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Any other human? I havent read Elantris yet, but don't they regenarate almost any wound very quickly? Nope... But if you have to read Elantris I don't want to spoil anything to you (and also this section It's the wrong place to talk about Elantris) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Coppermind actually does say they heal quickly. Which I would expect; Reod Elantrians have the same condition as that woman from a certain botched healing job in the records, so without other evidence it's probable that some form of regeneration system is built into the Shaod? Plus I haven't read Hope of Elantris myself, but I believe someone does get impaled in the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 Coppermind actually does say they heal quickly. Which I would expect; Reod Elantrians have the same condition as that woman from a certain botched healing job in the records, so without other evidence it's probable that some form of regeneration system is built into the Shaod? Plus I haven't read Hope of Elantris myself, but I believe someone does get impaled in the chest. Yes but during the Shaod not after. If they have something like "regeneration" is like the "pewter's healing". You may heal faster but nothing like "high speed regeneration" I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 The Shaod is a special case. Remember, Galladon's father basically committed suicide by not healing himself from his heart problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 24, 2015 Report Share Posted December 24, 2015 They can definitely die, for sure. Though they do seem to survive more than a human would, they're fairly killable. Maybe it's just on the level of basic general healing being pumped in at all times? That's always proven to be terribly inefficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts