Stormgate he/him Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 So, in Elantris, the use of modifiers is sited repeatedly, including modifiers allowing Aons to work as sort of a computer program that affects the world. However, there is a notable lack of modifiers in the Ars Arkenaum, which is most of what makes AonDor powerful. I would like to try to make these modifiers, and since I have nowhere to go for information, I would like any and all suggestions and tips for these modifiers. I currently have no information on them other than they exist, so anything would be a plus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 The main problem is that there's very little indication of what's a piece of terrain and what's a modifier. I think a good rule of thumb is to look for bits of Aons that don't correspond to terrain features, e.g. the triangle shapes on the top and bottom of Aon Dii. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 It is also irritating that we don't know the effects of all the Aons. I don't know what most of them are, and if I end up going through with this, I will basically drawing random lines all over the Aons. I wish we had even one example of a modifier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 As a programmer, I can say that this magic system is just about certain to be too complex be to be treated properly, and if it was, it would be dead boring to most readers. This is almost certainly related to the state of the world they live in, but that speculation probably goes in Cosmere theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am sort of a programmer. I think maybe Sanderson should just have a chart or something for Aons, maybe commission someone to do the modifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 1, 2016 Report Share Posted January 1, 2016 I think he probably has good reason for not including them, he doesn't have the time to work through every possible scenario with every Aon so there's no way to know for sure that he's not introducing something completely broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I think he probably has good reason for not including them, he doesn't have the time to work through every possible scenario with every Aon so there's no way to know for sure that he's not introducing something completely broken. That too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Here's what the fans need to make Aons for everything: 1) a knowledge of exactly what each Aon does or can do 2) about ten examples of modifiers 3) something else I can't think of right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Here's what the fans need to make Aons for everything: 1) a knowledge of exactly what each Aon does or can do 2) about ten examples of modifiers 3) something else I can't think of right now. 3) a way to differentiate between terrain-derived line and modifier line. Because there are far, FAR too many Aons that are nothing but tessellations of Aon Aon. (Aons Omi and Reo I'm looking at you) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 As a programmer, I thought it was cool that Aons were like programming for about ten seconds before I realized just how awful it would be. The standard library's minimal and you can't re-use code. You have to painstakingly and perfectly re-draw your standard library every time... I'm not even sure if you can reuse sections of code you write in Aons. It's like hell for a programmer, being forced to write in assembly and you can't even copy and paste. But I agree with the sentiment raised before, I don't think Brandon learned enough programming to do justice to AonDor if he were to fully flesh it out and show people how to make Aons. It'd be cool if he did something, but I'd prefer nothing at all to being disappointed at something that might not even be Turing complete (if that even makes sense for AonDor). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) As a programmer, I thought it was cool that Aons were like programming for about ten seconds before I realized just how awful it would be. The standard library's minimal and you can't re-use code. You have to painstakingly and perfectly re-draw your standard library every time... I'm not even sure if you can reuse sections of code you write in Aons. It's like hell for a programmer, being forced to write in assembly and you can't even copy and paste. But I agree with the sentiment raised before, I don't think Brandon learned enough programming to do justice to AonDor if he were to fully flesh it out and show people how to make Aons. It'd be cool if he did something, but I'd prefer nothing at all to being disappointed at something that might not even be Turing complete (if that even makes sense for AonDor). Well you may "create" a Aon with ink and paper (without using the Dor) and everytime you have "just" to use the AonDor with the paper as project. Everyone with a precise hand and without knowledge of the AonDor may use it (if he has access to the AonDor of course) And of course "Complex Aons for Dumb Elantrians" will be the Best Seller of Sel. Edited January 2, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 As a programmer, I thought it was cool that Aons were like programming for about ten seconds before I realized just how awful it would be. The standard library's minimal and you can't re-use code. You have to painstakingly and perfectly re-draw your standard library every time... I'm not even sure if you can reuse sections of code you write in Aons. It's like hell for a programmer, being forced to write in assembly and you can't even copy and paste. But I agree with the sentiment raised before, I don't think Brandon learned enough programming to do justice to AonDor if he were to fully flesh it out and show people how to make Aons. It'd be cool if he did something, but I'd prefer nothing at all to being disappointed at something that might not even be Turing complete (if that even makes sense for AonDor). AonDor soulstamps. You carve an Aon into say Soulstone, and put ink on it, and press the stamp against something. Presto, instant Aon. I'm not sure if this works, but it would be cool if it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I'm not sure how the soulstone would make a difference. It literally does nothing beyond being easy to carve with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Well you may "create" a Aon with ink and paper (without using the Dor) and everytime you have "just" to use the AonDor with the paper as project. Everyone with a precise hand and without knowledge of the AonDor may use it (if he has access to the AonDor of course) That's what I'm saying... that's pretty freaking awful. It's like manually entering assembly code from printed out papers. *shudder* AonDor soulstamps. You carve an Aon into say Soulstone, and put ink on it, and press the stamp against something. Presto, instant Aon. I'm not sure if this works, but it would be cool if it did. I don't know if that works... you can, for example, draw Aons in Photoshop, but they don't work if you save and then load them up again iirc. (Edit: Tried to find the WoB on this - no luck. If anyone else knows where to find it, I'd love to see it again. I know there is a WoB on it for sure.) Edited January 2, 2016 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 I don't know if that works... you can, for example, draw Aons in Photoshop, but they don't work if you save and then load them up again iirc. (Edit: Tried to find the WoB on this - no luck. If anyone else knows where to find it, I'd love to see it again. I know there is a WoB on it for sure.) I also don't know where it is off the top of my head, but the WoB was more to the effect of "You can do it, but the Aon will only work once". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 BTW, I chose soulstone because it was in-world and convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiga Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 I really don't think a 'stamp' would work with something like this. Based on what I've read from the book, accessing the Dor is always described as 'ripping' the fabric of reality to allow the power through. To me, it feels like the magic becomes focused and shaped from the journey of the actual rip itself more than just the overall shape. It's the flow from startpoint(s) to endpoint(s), the twists and turns of each character drawn that slowly modifies how the power will react when it is finished. If someone were able to just stamp the air with an Aon, I don't think it would work. It just doesn't seem like with the Dor pressing on the boundary to the outside world that it would react the same if the power just flooded out of a completed rip all at the same time. Like when you start drawing the Aon, you create a channel that the power can flow through, similar to water, and the width/changes in direction of the channel can cause different pressures to the power furthering its shape and function. The end result would still need to be perfectly mathematical/geographical, but to me, this seems more realistic. Idk, I just finished the book for the first time last night and this was the impression I got from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Which raises the age old question. Just who or what was it that built Aon Rao and the Shaod system into Elantris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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