humble he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I just finished a reread of all of Mistborn and in HoA, I came across an interesting line. “Preservation’s power remains, for power cannot be destroyed. His mind however, was all but destroyed-for this was the sacrifice he made to imprison Ruin.” “The sliver remains,” another reminded. “The shadow of self.” “Yes,” Haddek said. “But that is not Preservation, just an image-a remnant…” (The Hero of Ages Hardback pg. 507 Lines 1 and 3 added for context and emphasis is mine.) And I got to thinking… What is the connection to Shadows of Self? Is there a connection? Is book 5’s title a reference to Leras, Rashek, Kelsier, or Vin? Or all four? Or not of Preservation at all but of Ruin? Is Ati’s mind out their somewhere?Maybe somebody else? I’m gonna feel dumb it this has already been posted and explained. By the way, this is my first post so, howdy all! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50Metals he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Words of radiance spoilers. Warning: Hmmm interesting. Well we know the shards even when their holder dies remain quite powerful. See Stormfather for instance after the death of Tanavast. The opposite though, of the person remaining powerful even after they no longer hold their shard, that is interesting. I suppose it sort of happened with Kelsier and Preservation. The word sliver is suprising. If ati's will remains, I'd guess it would be as a splinter that escaped ruin (since splinters can have a different intent than their shards). (Btw...Stormfather is probably both a splinter and a sliver. I should start a thread about that in Stormlight archive forum) I think we will learn a lot more about how powerful beings (such as Kelsier, Ati, Aona, or Tanavast) can still be sort of around after death, via that book as well as Stormlight 3-5. I imagine the feruchemical use of nicrosil and alumminum are related to it, at least on Scadrial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 The "Shadow of Self" mentioned there is what the cosmere-aware characters call a "cognitive shadow" and what less aware people call a "ghost." It forms when, for whatever reason, a person's (or Shardholder's) Cognitive aspect remains behind when the rest of their spirit has gone to the Spiritual Realm. In the world of ash, that was the "mist spirit." TL;DR there's no real connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) The "Shadow of Self" mentioned there is what the cosmere-aware characters call a "cognitive shadow" and what less aware people call a "ghost." It forms when, for whatever reason, a person's (or Shardholder's) Cognitive aspect remains behind when the rest of their spirit has gone to the Spiritual Realm. In the world of ash, that was the "mist spirit." The Spiritual Realm is not the afterlife in the Cosmere. (There's a better WoB on this, but this one works just fine.) Those who pass on don't pass on into the Spiritual Realm. A Cognitive Shadow is very much like a Splinter, which would mean they're mostly in both the Cognitive and the Spiritual and less in the Physical. Edited December 8, 2015 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightness Enna she/her Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Is Ati’s mind out their somewhere? I don't know a whole ton about this, but I can take a stab at it. Warning: HoA spoilers. In the letter from Sazed to Spook at the end of the book, Sazed mentions that he spoke with Vin and Elend and they're fine right where they are. Wherever that is. Since Ati died (or whatever) the same way Vin did, I don't think that they'd go separate places. I think that Ati is in the cosmere's afterlife along with everybody else, though maybe something's weird in there about evil being punished, much the way many religions hold. So no, I don't think that Ati's mind or cognitive aspect is still influencing the world. IMPORTANT EDIT: I really should have read Moogle's WoB before I posted. Oops. Now I am left to wonder - Vin and Elend didn't pass on? Or were they traveling and Sazed got them? If they didn't end up passing on, then maybe Ati is still out there. Edited December 8, 2015 by Enna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I don't know a whole ton about this, but I can take a stab at it. Warning: HoA spoilers. In the letter from Sazed to Spook at the end of the book, Sazed mentions that he spoke with Vin and Elend and they're fine right where they are. Wherever that is. Since Ati died (or whatever) the same way Vin did, I don't think that they'd go separate places. I think that Ati is in the cosmere's afterlife along with everybody else, though maybe something's weird in there about evil being punished, much the way many religions hold. So no, I don't think that Ati's mind or cognitive aspect is still influencing the world. IMPORTANT EDIT: I really should have read Moogle's WoB before I posted. Oops. Now I am left to wonder - Vin and Elend didn't pass on? Or were they traveling and Sazed got them? If they didn't end up passing on, then maybe Ati is still out there. They're in Tahiti! (It's a magical place.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaeggs he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) They're in Tahiti! (It's a magical place.) I'll take your word on it. Crazy episode tonight. I think that the "afterlife" of the Cosmere is straying into God Beyond territory. Which honestly just confuses me. I think that's just Sanderson's way of speaking about himself in the third person. Wouldn't put it past him. Edited December 9, 2015 by NoMoreOoklasForAYear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Again with putting Ati and evil in the same sentence as if it's a black-and-white certainty. He didn't really have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhoof Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Yeah, he was corrupted by the Shard's Intent. I read that he was a kind and generous person before taking up Ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Without Ruin, Ati's Soul will slowly reverts to his original personality (at least the big part) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaeggs he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I always thought of it as the intents being like forces of nature, not good or evil but simply existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Without Ruin, Ati's Soul will slowly reverts to his original personality (at least the big part) Can you imagine the awkward afterlife conversations that would come of this? Ati: "Um, hi, Vin. So, er....sorry about trying to destroy the world and stuff." Vin: ... Ati: *shuffles awkwardly* Vin: *punches Ati* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Can you imagine the awkward afterlife conversations that would come of this? Ati: "Um, hi, Vin. So, er....sorry about trying to destroy the world and stuff." Vin: ... Ati: *shuffles awkwardly* Vin: *punches Ati* What would Vin do to Leras for attacking Elend? And Ati would be in even more trouble for killing Elend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle of the Forest Path he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 What would Vin do to Leras for attacking Elend? And Ati would be in even more trouble for killing Elend. This is basically why Marsh is using Atium compounding. He's not afraid of dying, but he's terrified of what'll happen next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 What would Vin do to Leras for attacking Elend? And Ati would be in even more trouble for killing Elend. I've got more where that came from! Vin: *feeling gracious* "OK, Elend, it's your turn to punch Ati." Elend: *looks back and forth between the two of them* Nah, I'm good. Vin: *eyetwitch* Later... Elend: "So, Leras, what the heck was up with stabbing me? Not cool, man." Leras: "Ugh! I keep telling people, that wasn't me! It was that weird cognitive shadow I left behind! I was already technically dead!" Elend. "Oh..." *pause* "So, wanna play checkers?" Leras: "Sure!" Ati: "Dude, watch out. He cheats." Leras: "Oh, come on, it was one time!" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 I've got more where that came from! Vin: *feeling gracious* "OK, Elend, it's your turn to punch Ati." Elend: *looks back and forth between the two of them* Nah, I'm good. Vin: *eyetwitch* Later... Elend: "So, Leras, what the heck was up with stabbing me? Not cool, man." Leras: "Ugh! I keep telling people, that wasn't me! It was that weird cognitive shadow I left behind! I was already technically dead!" Elend. "Oh..." *pause* "So, wanna play checkers?" Leras: "Sure!" Ati: "Dude, watch out. He cheats." Leras: "Oh, come on, it was one time!" Have you ever considered writing fanfiction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Have you ever considered writing fanfiction? *looks at the 112k-word Mistborn Era 2 fanfic novel she has out to beta readers right now* ....maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 And then they run into Aona, Skai, and Tanavast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Bard he/him Posted December 10, 2015 Report Share Posted December 10, 2015 Words of radiance spoilers. Warning: Hmmm interesting. Well we know the shards even when their holder dies remain quite powerful. See Stormfather for instance after the death of Tanavast. The opposite though, of the person remaining powerful even after they no longer hold their shard, that is interesting. I suppose it sort of happened with Kelsier and Preservation. The word sliver is suprising. If ati's will remains, I'd guess it would be as a splinter that escaped ruin (since splinters can have a different intent than their shards). (Btw...Stormfather is probably both a splinter and a sliver. I should start a thread about that in Stormlight archive forum) I think we will learn a lot more about how powerful beings (such as Kelsier, Ati, Aona, or Tanavast) can still be sort of around after death, via that book as well as Stormlight 3-5. I imagine the feruchemical use of nicrosil and alumminum are related to it, at least on Scadrial. There is a trick to creating spoiler tags, 50 Metals, if you would like to learn. (Note: To demonstrate the code, I've added spaces between the brackets. Remove these.) The trick is to place [ spoiler] and [ /spoiler] on either side of the spoilery text. This will produce this: Hello! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubdor he/him Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Without Ruin, Ati's Soul will slowly reverts to his original personality (at least the big part) Is this true? I don't remember reading about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata he/him Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 Is this true? I don't remember reading about this. There is a WoB about but at the moment I can't search it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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