Shallan, Shardblade, and Soulcaster

[Kier he/him]

So, basically this is just looking for information/ speculation.

 

I know its "common" knowledge that Shallan has a shardblade from several, almost blatent, thoughts of hers throughout the book.

 

However, what I have a question about is when she got the shardblade.

 

It seems obvious she obtained it after killing her father, specifically from killing her father. I have one issue with this.

 

In her first memory of that night. She thinks to herself,

 

“..Nan balant (Sp?) bruised and beaten, wet silvery blade in her hand, back pressed against the wall…”

 

Or at least something close to that. I apologize, I’m at work and I don’t have the book with me. To me this is obviously just after she murdered her Father, and she backed away from what she had done, and she has the sword in her hand already.

 

Furthermore, Later, when talking about the broken soulcaster, she mentions that the chain and one of the jewel casings was cut with a very fine, and clean cut. The only thing in Roshar that I know about that would cut through chain and metal in such a fashion is a shardblade.

 

To me, these speak almost clearly that she had the shardblade before murdering her Father.

 

Has anyone else thought, seen, guessed at this? I tried to look but couldn’t find anything before hand.

 

Also, this brings into question as to why the soul caster was broken. Either, Luesh (sp?) the family steward either lied and didn’t need a soul caster, (like Jasnah and Shallan) or It really used to work. (Do we have more info that I haven’t found about Soul Casters? Are all Soul Casters just holders for stormlight and really they Soul Cast without it? I’m knew to all this theorizing, so I might be behind on some things.)

 

If it really used to work maybe that is why it broke? the Shardblade broke it?

 

The only problem with this “theory” is that in the drawing that Shallan draws of the scene, there is Blood on the carpet, and as we know…Shardblades don’t leave blood.

Anyway, Let me know if i’m off base! =) Or if this is alreayd known info and I am just slow XD.

 

Edit: Also, Shallan mentions in the fist time you hear about "the night" (when her dad died, as "reffrenced" above) That is the same night they discovered the soul caster and, if I remember correctly, she states its the same night it was Damaged. 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Kier

[el_warko he/him]

I like it.  If it was a fit of rage / lack of control and she stabbed/ cut him after he was dead, a Shardblade acts like a normal weapon - it cut flesh, so that would explain the blood. Reference the hunt for the Chasmfiend / general gemheart harvest.

 

Her father used to use the soulcaster so maybe there is a familial trend towards KR ability, certainly bears up with regard to the Kholin clan.  Does anyone know if there are / were anti KR's as there are anti Heralds?  Maybe that is what the Ghostbloods are or will become?

Edited December 19, 2013 by el_warko

[Quiver he/him]

I've seen the theory that the Soulcaster was cut with the Shardblade. It sounds plausible, but I've always thought Shallan claimed the Blade as it materialised, following her fathers death. Are there any acknowledgements that killing him was her greatest sin though? Patricide isn't cool, but then, he doesn't sound like a very nice man.

[Pinpoint he/him]

 a Shardblade acts like a normal weapon - it cut flesh, so that would explain the blood. Reference the hunt for the Chasmfiend / general gemheart harvest.

 

 

Hmm. From what I remember, each time a human was killed by a sharblade there was no blood. If the shardblade cut flesh then when it passed through a neck the head would fall off. that never happened

Edited December 19, 2013 by Pinpoint

[Kier he/him]

Hmm. From what I remember, each time a human was killed by a sharblade there was no blood. If the shardblade cut flesh then when it passed through a neck the head would fall off. that never happened

 

He is refrencing after the person is dead. I don't remember were but it is stated that when living, yes the shardblade wont cut flesh, however, after the person is dead, it will cut flesh just like anything else, ie. like a hot knife through butter.

[Cortez he/him]

The facts in this situation are actually quite slim, which gives us plenty of scope for fun speculation.

 
We know that Shallan has a Shardblade and that she calls it the 'fruit' of her greatest sin.
 
We know that she confesses to the cryptics that she killed her father.
 
It is logical to assume that these two events are one and the same however, as you have noted, the damaged Soulcaster throws a spanner into this theory. The Soulcaster is descibed as being a;

heavy construction of metal and chains

and that it was;

sheared in two places; across one of chains and through the setting that held one of the stones.

This suggests that it was damaged by a Shardblade especially as the word Sheared is often used in reference to cutting with a Shardblade. It is hard to see any other way that the damage could be achieved. Shallan also states that the Soulcaster was found in his [her fathers] jacket pocket, on the body after he was dead. Which suggests that her Father was killed with a Shardblade damaging the Soulcaster at the same time.
 
Another thing to consider is that Shallan doesn't appear to be particulary remorseful or upset about killing her Father. She tries to hide from the memory and the circumstances surrounding her death but she seems almost proud when confessing to the Cryptics.
 
So the question is where did Shallan get her Shardblade from if she didn't get it from her Father?
 

If you read the Words of Radiance reading Red Carpet, Once White you'll see that their may well be more that one skeleton in Shallans closet

 

In this reading Shallan clearly considers herself to already be a murderer and there is the suggestion that at at least one of the dead, her mother, was killed with a shardblade.

"Father stepped over the body of a woman in white. Little blood there. It was the other men doing most of the bleeding.
Mother lay face down so Shallan couldn't see the eyes, the horrible eyes."

Unfortunately this reading doesn't reveal much. e don';t know how old Shallan is in this reading or even if its her real mother or step-mother. However it is interesting that she blames herself stating "the world endedand Shallan was to blame" and calls herself, in her head a murderer. If this was her greatest sin could she have picked up the Shardblade here?

Edited December 20, 2013 by Cortez

[hoser he/him]

A minor point is that the OP quote is close, but not exactly right.  It says "Memories attacked her.  Nan Balat, bruised, his coat torn.  A long, silvery sword in her hands, ...".  While I know nothing, it could be that the plural "memories" is significant, and the sword in her hand was not simultaneous with the bruised Nan Balat. 

 

This thread has some overlapping discussion, if anyone is curious. 

Edited December 20, 2013 by hoser

[Kier he/him]

Thanks Hoser.
 
I did try to mention that I usually am on here while at work, so quotes are fully from memory. Thanks for clarifying, and that is a possiblity. Although, as Cortez shows above. 
 

Shallan is reffering to herself as a monster, a horrible moster, and mentiones her mothers eyes.. which I take as a hint hint. I think Shallan not only killed her Father but her Mother as well... and I think both are with a shardblade.

[Quiver he/him]

I hadn't seen those WoR quotes. The eyes line does sound fairly indicative of a Sharblade. But I don't think that explains where Shallan got the Blade. The line about it being the fruit of her greatest sin would seem to suggest that she did something, as a result of which she received the Shardblade. I don't see how she could have killed her mother with the Blade, and still consider receiving the Blade the 'reward' for it.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Here's a thought: What if her father finally snapped and tried to hit her, and she told him what she thought of him - a potent secret, deeply personal. She used the soulcaster to change his torso into blood - or did it herself, to quickly to see Shadesmar, or possibly with her eyes closed or something. She seemed to be repressing the memories, but the blood thing would be a nice parallel.

[Cheese Ninja he/him]

 Fun fact: Cortez said that "most" times the word "shear" is used in Way of Kings, it's for Shardblades. It's actually used for Shardblades for 16 of the 17 instances, with the possible unlikely exception of the Soulcaster.  I made a post about a year ago.

 

And two posts down from that:

I like the whole 2nd person theory because it allows her Shardblade to have an origin outside of their family, which might explain why they couldn't sell the Shardblade without getting into even more trouble themselves. The topic of selling the Shardblade is never even brought up, so we don't know if her brothers know about it. (I assume they must, if the killing blow was a Shardblade, it's too distinctive, and the Soulcaster being sheared is difficult to hide.)

[name_here]

I don't think that Shallan used the Shardblade to kill her father. There was apparently quite a lot of blood, which usually implies wounds inflicted prior to death, and Shallan doesn't strike me as the type to manically slash at a corpse again and again. We know that dropped Shardblades will often carve tracks through stone before vanishing, so one that dropped on the death of the wielder might cut as well, which would account for the Soulcaster.

[Oathbringer he/him]

It seems unlikely that the shardblade was what damaged the soulcaster. They seem to cause great swaths of damage, and the only damage to the soulcaster is a broken chain and one of the gemstones settings being damaged. Further, as she says that the shardblade was the fruit of her greatest sin she might not have had it yet, or even so, regardless, she woe not have trained with the blade and if she caused accidental damage to the soulcaster it would most likely be catastrophic. Not to just two grazing marks.

[AerionBFII he/him]

If she ever learns how to use her Shardblade, Soulcasting and Lightweaving she'll be quite formidable o.O

Edited March 3, 2014 by WEZ313