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Who was the man who gave Szeth the kill list in WoK? (AoL spoilers)

pharaoh9000

By pharaoh9000
in Stormlight Archive

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Important or Unimportant?  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Was the shadowed man talking to Szeth of particular note?

    • Yes... He was someone special. We'll find out who in future books!
      35
    • No... This was a throwaway character. He was no one important.
      10

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pharaoh9000

pharaoh9000

Posted
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Ok, Friends.  Help me out here.  For I have gone and convinced myself of something crazy!

 

Sorry, I'm new to the forum and I don't know how to do that cool "spoiler" button yet.

Please be aware that this theory mainly concerns The Stormlight Archive: Way of Kings and will have spoilers for the stormlight series. But because of said theory, this post will also contain spoilers from the Alloy of Law. So please continue reading at your own risk!  If you have read both books, please give your thoughts on this theory.  Many thanks!

 

Toward the end of Interlude-6 when Szeth finds Gavashaw dead along with his [former] master Makkek,  he's greeted by this dark figure who bears Szeth's Oathstone and gives him Taravangian's kill list.  I'd like to discuss who this dark figure might be...  Because I don't believe he's just some unimportant messenger.

  1. Szeth doesn't recognize this man's accent.  This seems to be a gentle suggestion that the figure might originate off world.  I figure Szeth would have traveled many places since becoming Truthless and having his Oathstone traded so frequently. Szeth guesses that the dark figure's accent might be Alethi, but he isn't sure.
  2. No real description of the dark figure is really given except that his voice is "male and deep" so a physical match can't really be made.  The figure even wore a mask.  So all we can really go on and take clues from is the shrouded man's words.
  3. Monologuing - This shrouded figure is heavily opinionated for someone who is presumably unimportant and needs to only deliver proof of the Oathstone exchanging hands and the new orders from the new master.

 

That being said, what the man starts monologuing about is, i feel, key to discovering his true identity.

 

He says things like:

  • "Are you satisfied with this... are you satisfied with trivial crimes?"
  • "What a waste... You are squandered."
  • "You are a work of art... a god."
  • “But do you not rebel against this frivolous use of your skills? Were you not meant for greatness?”
  • "It's time you stop wasting your talent."
 
Very interesting statements. He had virtually no reason to monologue to Szeth... and combining that with his strange accent, I keep feeling like this shrouded figure is more important that the interlude makes apparent.  He shows up nowhere else in the series (as of yet) to pick apart more clues.
 
These statements come dangerously close to many things said to Waxillium Ladrian back on Scadrial.  My vote is that the masked and shadowed man giving Szeth his new orders is Miles "Hundredlives" Dagouter who is now on Roshar.  As implausible as it seems, he may not actually be truly dead.
  1. It was never explained how he was still able to heal after all of his metalminds were apparently removed.  Therefore we don't know to what extent his death was an act or irreversible (including his missing pulse).
  2. We know nothing of the remains/body of Mile Dagouter.
  3. Beyond that, the cosmere has "Returned" and fabrials that can revive people from the unthinkable (like with a certain someone at the end of WoR).  Miles Dagouter is my best guess as to who this man might be... he doesn't actually have to have survived his experienced on Scadrial to be alive on Roshar right now.
  4. He's Miles Hundredlives Dagouter... he's been through a lot worse.  He probably had gold implanted in his bones.
  5. He was very confident when he went up for execution.  Why would he have been so confident if he knew he'd eventually run out of gold during the execution and die anyway?
  6. As for what he'd be doing on Roshar?  Probably doing the same thing he was doing on Scadial. Serving someone, believing in a higher cause.  Like Taravangian.
 
Thoughts?
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Cemci

Cemci

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Or...it could be Taravangian. Kharbranth is a small city-state at the western-most tip of the Frostlands, that could be why the accent is unfamiliar to Szeth. Szeth has primarily been around in rural areas as a Truthless, Kharbranth is quite distant. We already know he's not the old, somewhat simple, kindly man Shallan and Jasnah meet; his intellect changes from day to day; as we see at the end of WoK, he's quite ruthless. Granted, the speech delivered by the shadowed man when Szeth gets the list is dissimilar to the sort of things Taravangian says at the end of WoK, but I think the person delivering the list is probably not more important than Taravangian. Also, I think there's a significant time gap between the events of the Mistborn series and the events of the Stormlight Archive (I think there's a WoB, although I can't find it).

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Moogle

Moogle

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On spoilers: I added mention of AoL spoilers to the title. There's no need to do more spoiler tags than that in the WoK forum. Any thread made here is assumed to have WoK spoilers. Typically, threads dealing with multiple worlds should go in Cosmere Theories.

 

 

On topic: I always thought it was Mrall, personally. He's got that psychopathic mentally-weird thing going on.

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pharaoh9000

pharaoh9000

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On spoilers: I added mention of AoL spoilers to the title. There's no need to do more spoiler tags than that in the WoK forum. Any thread made here is assumed to have WoK spoilers. Typically, threads dealing with multiple worlds should go in Cosmere Theories.

 

 

On topic: I always thought it was Mrall, personally. He's got that psychopathic mentally-weird thing going on.

 Thank you. And sorry...

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Tarion

Tarion

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The problem with Miles or Mr. Suit is that the guy Soulcasts.

The chained gemstone on the man’s palm flashed. The wall vanished, turned to smoke. A Soulcaster.

 

I'm not ruling out an off-worlder (especially since the fabrials should, in theory, work for anyone) but my first thought would be someone more local.

 

Mrall fits, although I did consider Graves.  Either way, someone dedicated to the Diagram, with an ends-justify-the-means mindset.  

 

I would lean against Taravangian for two reasons.  One, he refers to "our master".  There's no reason to hide that he's the one pulling Szeth's strings, when his identity is unknown.  Two, that's the sort of task that you really want to have reliable intelligence for.  Taravangian just isn't suited for travelling to a distant city and carrying out covert operations.  He needs too much babysitting on his bad days (Where "bad days" really means "days that vary sufficiently enough from the norm")

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pharaoh9000

pharaoh9000

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Pretty sure aol is after wok and wor.

WoB quotes him in an interview saying that Mistborn is the past, present, and future of the Cosmere events... and Stormlight Archive is the "center".... So I'm thinking that AoL qualifies as "present" times maybe.

 

Whoever the masked man was who talked to Szeth, he'd been there for quite some time.

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Cemci

Cemci

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The problem with Miles or Mr. Suit is that the guy Soulcasts.

 

 

Didn't see that, fair point. Since Kharbranth officially doesn't have a Soulcaster (why Jasnah is needed  to get rid of the boulder at the start of WoK), it's tempting to say that it's nobody we know is in Taravangian's employ (i.e. nobody with him in his chapter) - unless Taravangian is hiding the fact that his people have a Soulcaster - it's heresy to use one if you're not an ardent, and Taravangian's activities make me think his operation is trying to hide from the rest of 'mainstream' society.

 

Leaning towards Graves, who I would say cooperates with Taravangian and certainly shares the mindset. I think Graves must have been primarily messenger though, the instructions to have Taravangian acknowledge Szeth's words at the end of WoK are very specific.

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DSC01

DSC01

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Nothing to be sorry about. I was just explaining the spoiler policy. It takes a mod like two seconds to fix any mistakes, so it's not a big deal.

Let me just say that I appreciate that about this forum sooooooo much. There are plenty of sites out there where they lock your threads, ridicule you for not knowing the rules, then downvote your reputation to the point that no one will ever listen to anything you say.

I know that has nothing to do with this thread, but I wanted to take the opportunity to acknowledge that fact because it is so nice to be welcomed rather than face a bunch of jerks who are more interested in maligning n00bs than having a discussion.

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DreamEternal

DreamEternal

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What if it's Nalan? We know he has a ton of fabrials with him.

So the Skybreakers and Taravangian are working togheter? Well, it does sound more likely than the Set, but I never considered it seriously. Althought perhaps you are right, since I am unsure if Mr.T ever did anything Nalan would oppose.

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DreamEternal

DreamEternal

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I can't figure why Nalan would want to help Taravangian. Suggestions?

The Diagram says it may become necessary to eliminate the new Radiant orders, according to an encryptographed(sp?) message in the epigraphs. And they apparently hold the secret that first broke them.

Plus, eliminating the Stone Shamanate would help Mr.T along very nicely.

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Cadmium

Cadmium

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Except, wouldn't Szeth then recognize Nalan at the end of WoR and not be as confused as he is in that scene? 

Not on sight, as the individual that held his oathstone wore a mask. If Nalan altered his accent the first time, it's plausible that it could still be him.

I always assumed it was a Soulcaster lackey that worked for a more insidious power that will be spun out over the next few books...

 

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Patrick Star

Patrick Star

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Except, wouldn't Szeth then recognize Nalan at the end of WoR and not be as confused as he is in that scene? 

 

Like midnightyell said, the guy was wearing a mask.  Also, Nalan has a lightweaving fabrial on him, so altering his appearance and accent for short stretches is probably trivial for him.

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hoser

hoser

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I would say that Mr. T obviously does have access to at least one Soulcaster, despite the common knowledge. 

 

I think the whole scenario with Jasnah destroying the boulder was contrived to verify that she was not using a Soulcaster.  This may be where they confirmed that she was a Surgebinder.  They may have used a Soulcaster or Shardblade to cause the boulder to be there in the first place.

 

Another interesting thing about the person who gave Szeth the list is that there was no need for him to use the Soulcaster.  He was already there.  He could just have left the way he came.  Soulcasting the wall away was unnecessary.  Why did he do that?  To show Szeth that he had a Soulcaster?  To hide the way that he had entered?  Some other reason?

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pharaoh9000

pharaoh9000

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Another interesting thing about the person who gave Szeth the list is that there was no need for him to use the Soulcaster. He was already there. He could just have left the way he came. Soulcasting the wall away was unnecessary. Why did he do that? To show Szeth that he had a Soulcaster? To hide the way that he had entered? Some other reason?

That is a great question! I'm sure whoever he was, we haven't heard the last from him.

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pharaoh9000

pharaoh9000

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I like the idea that it was Nalan, I also thought this and was going to post before I saw someone had said it. We need more information to be sure, though. Did Szeth show any sign of recognition in the Epilogue?

 

See? That's the thing.  If it were truly Nalan, then that would have been a great opportunity to reveal that at the end of WoR when he recruits Szeth.

 

My other doubt about it being Nalan is this: As a herald of the Almighty... specifically The Herald of Justice, are we entirely sure he would be allying/coordinating himself with Taravangian (even temporarily)?  Everywhere Nalan has gone and everything that we know of him doing has been to serve justice itself.  Are we sure he'd align himself with the types of actions Taravangian has been taking?

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DreamEternal

DreamEternal

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Posted (edited)

See? That's the thing. If it were truly Nalan, then that would have been a great opportunity to reveal that at the end of WoR when he recruits Szeth.

My other doubt about it being Nalan is this: As a herald of the Almighty... specifically The Herald of Justice, are we entirely sure he would be allying/coordinating himself with Taravangian (even temporarily)? Everywhere Nalan has gone and everything that we know of him doing has been to serve justice itself. Are we sure he'd align himself with the types of actions Taravangian has been taking?

First: He could have guessed that if he told Szeth there and then he was cooperating with Taravangian, Szeth would run away or try to fight him.

Second: no, everything Nalan did was to stop a Desolation. He does not serve justice or law, he just makes sure he does not go against it either. Plus, if what Szeth did was acceptable to him, it is possible he is OK with what the Diagram forced Vargo to do, and both share the goal of fighting the desolations without care for how many they kill on the way.

EDIT: Not that I think it was Nalan. Graves seems more likely to me, I just think the Skybreakers and Diagram do not oppose one another and may have a frail alliance.

Edited by CognitivePulsePattern
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