Checkmating Limelight (SPOILERS!)

[Darkness]

I realize that most of these comments are just idle speculation, but Prof would be a lot harder to take down if you don't know his weakness. You could throw him into the ocean. Even if he can get rid of water with his hands, he can't create oxygen… there'd just be more water. Eventually maybe he'd drown in a big pile of fish You could gas him; there are gases that knock people out in less than a second, but you'd have to continuously replenish the gas so he couldn't just heal himself out of it. You could laser him, but to what extent?

Also, considering steel is mostly made up of carbon, and the term 'organic' is synonymous with carbon-based, it's not a simple question of steel or glue. You'd have to pin down exactly what materials Prof's vibrations work on and - even more helpful - why. For example, if he were only able to reduce non-living entities (or even just metals), then that alters the resources you have available. Can he burrow through normal ground, or is it just the steel-transduced ground he can get through? Can he get rid of flames like he does bullets? Heat? Lasers?

There's just too much uncertainty to devise a suitable plan of takedown without knowing a sure limitation, or better yet, his weakness.

[name_here]

Epics in general have their powers fouled by living things, apparently, at least with the more esoteric manipulation effects. Steelheart's transmutation has difficulty altering things people are holding/wearing and doesn't work on anything alive, but can transform corpses just fine.

 

 

Also, considering steel is mostly made up of carbon, and the term 'organic' is synonymous with carbon-based, it's not a simple question of steel or glue.

You are incorrect on both counts. Steel is almost entirely made up of iron; carbon is the most significant impurity but is only a couple percent of the mass at most. Organic means the molecule has a carbon backbone; an alloy cannot be organic no matter how much carbon it's got because it's not exactly bonded.

 

 

You'd have to pin down exactly what materials Prof's vibrations work on and - even more helpful - why.

I'm guessing it generally doesn't work on compounds that could be found in living things. Kind of an arbitrary distinction, but it would fit with the general living thing exemption. While it'd be hard to notice a metal-only limitation in Newcago, the Reckoners have used them extensively elsewhere and would probably have mentioned it.

 

Come to think of it, we don't know that the tensor power doesn't work on non-living organics. I mean, the gifted form apparently doesn't, but that's with the full power split at least five ways. It might just be a lot harder.

 

As for the other questions, he can probably burrow through normal ground. Lasers probably work fine. There's no evidence he can destroy heat.

[Fedelpen]

You don't need to overwhelm him or blast through his shield. Just sneak up while he's sleeping. And cut off his head.

 

When you're ruthless enough, killing Epics is easy.^TM

[Edgedancer]

You don't need to overwhelm him or blast through his shield. Just sneak up while he's sleeping. And cut off his head.

 

When you're ruthless enough, killing Epics is easy.^TM

Killing him in his sleep should be fairly easy. It might be saver to organize something bigger than just an axe or something in case his shield activates while he sleeps.

Granted, all of this is assuming that one can find the Reckoner hideout, bypass their alarm and whatever else blocks your way to his room, even if it´s just a steel door, all while carrying equipment that can gurantee a decapitaion.

[Chrono]

I'm a big fan of throwing him into the ocean. You see, even with his shield, air can still go through it (otherwise he'd suffocate while shielding himself), and even if he shielded the entire time underwater, his air supply would run out pretty dang fast. His healing ability would be negated (unless he somehow manages to instantly transmute materials into oxygen as part of the healing process, which sounds very unlikely to me). He is only shown to Tensor steel and other inorganics, but at the bottom of the ocean, the pressure alone would guarantee that he can't get out, if only due to the sheer amount of water. 

 

Now, how do we manage to throw him in the ocean? Take him by surprise by gassing him instantly. Air is shown to be able to flow through his shield and he probably can't tensor it (running on the assumption that he can only tensor solids). His healing factor would be a problem, but in the fight with Steelheart, Prof gets tired. If we pump enough gas in, he'd probably succumb to its effects. Next, put him on a plane. Covered in snakes. Poisonous snakes. Yes, really. Fly out to the ocean and put Prof in a bamboo box at least three feet thick with no holes. Seal it with organic glue of some kind. Weigh down the box with whatever heavy material you deem fit. There's not too many things out there that are really heavy and organic, so I'll use giant trees. Place the box with the trees attached into a submarine able to withstand tons of pressure. When you deem it deep enough, jettison the box with the trees and wave goodbye.

 

If you still think this is not enough, you can flood the box with anthrax or something.

[Kobold King]

If you still think this is not enough, you can flood the box with anthrax or something.

 

Choosy Reckoners choose anthrax.

[High prince of geeks]

lure him to Yellowstone, then either use a Nuclear bomb or tectonic epic to set to set it off. No way he's surviving theoretically 5,000,000 Hiroshima's

[Observer]

As nice as it is that we can kill Prof using unlimited materials and a lot of time, we should probably be looking for something a little easier to manage. Dropping him into the ocean would probably keep him down for a long time, but that's borderline impossible to pull off, even for a flying Epic, since it all but requires you to choose the stadium and have tons of time to plan things out. Is there any way to handle Prof that doesn't involve a crazy amount of time, resources, and preparation? Wouldn't it just be easier to use a large explosion and then chop him into pieces once you pound through the shield? It's been shown to run out, so then it's just Healing Factor, which can be overcome with slicing and dicing. I guess what I'm saying is, we should probably limit ourselves to practicality. Overkill is still nice, but practicality trumps.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Observer

[High prince of geeks]

I'm thinking a powerful poison slipped into his food. It wouldn't be enough to kill him with his healing powers but if he didn't know he was poisoned I think it at least would stun him long enough for a type of blow that you can't heal back from like beheading or removal of spine and heart

[name_here]

The problem is that the combination of his shield, healing, and tensor powers are extremely difficult to overcome. The shield stood up for a while battling Steelheart, so it won't run out quickly. The healing means that he'll quickly recover from any attack that makes it through the shield but isn't decisive. The tensor means he can rapidly destroy any weapon he gets near, lets him obliterate projectiles reasonably likely to pose a significant problem for the shield, and finally means he can burrow to safety and then collapse the tunnel behind him.

 

You need to kill him in one shot or he'll run away if it looks like he might lose, and he's sturdy enough it's hard to pull that off. Granted, if killing him becomes necessary that probably means the Epic Effect is kicking in, and in his case that makes him extremely stubborn about running even against overwhelming force.

Edited December 8, 2014 by name_here

[Angsos]

If we find out his weakness, it will be in Calamity or the very end of firefight. I don't see Prof getting offed unless the good guys find an arsenal of powerful weapons for Conflux to power and even then I doubt it. You might see him have to retreat but I don't think he'll die. Anyway, if anyone knows, I'm sure Tia does

[Shadow Guardian]

Firefight Spoilers:

 

Now that Firefight is out, I think we can agree that this thread suddenly became a whole lot more relevant.

With the ending of Firefight, it's now a very real possibility that David is in fact going to have to find a way to actually checkmate Prof. We've now seen that Prof's powers are rather more powerful than we may have believed, to the point that David talks about him almost being in his own class, though for the life of me, I cannot find the quote again >.<

 

With David's insight on an Epic's weakness being tied to their fears though, I think he has a chance, even if I hope against hope that he'll actually be able to talk him down instead of actually having to put him down. 

 

I think the only realistic way to take Prof out, especially in the state he's in now, post-Firefight, is going to be finding his weakness and using that against him.

[18th Shard]

Firefight Spoilers

I think David acts like his High Epic name is Phaedrus. He says somewhere that this wasn't the Prof he knew, it was the High Epic Phaedrus, so that's how I think of him now. In addition, I think all of our former plans were inconsequential. The shields are stormingly greater than we had here to before thought, and his healing factor gifted to David, which is shown to be weaker and limited, healed back oblivion - a.k.a. what we would consider death. I think it is at least almost a Prime Invincibility, and those shields might elevate him pretty quickly. The tensors weren't seen to be too much stronger, but that seems to be the least of his abilities. Not to mention the whole minion creating thing, I think the only way to kill him at this point would be to find his weakness. In summary, I think the big question in Calamity will be, What does Jon Phaedrus fear?

[carlucill]

This is a really partially formed idea, but what if he is afraid of "losing." Tia mentioned that he never entered contests, and he gained his powers as his students where under threat.

[18th Shard]

So, according to that, to beat him using his weakness, they have to beat him without using his weakness?

[carlucill]

So, according to that, to beat him using his weakness, they have to beat him without using his weakness?

Nah, just trick him into a game of tick-tack-toe and start on a corner.

[Patrick Star]

Nah, just trick him into a game of tick-tack-toe and start on a corner.

 

Or just give him a phone with flappy bird installed.

[Serial]

I think the answer is simpler... IF calamity is a gifter epic that gifts to create other epics then killing him would remove the gifted powers the others have returning them to normal (which is what firefight wants).

No need to defeat or KILL other epics, just manage to take out the one and it's over for good (unless only some epics came from his gifting while others were from something else).

Though what would the people who WERE epics go through knowing what they did while gifted the powers?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Serial

[Patrick Star]

@Serial

 

Icecream.  Lots and lots of icecream.  And maybe some cake.

[Ragsiez]

RIDICUOUSLY HUGE SPOILER! I've read the second book to the Reckoner's series, Firefight.

It has said that the Epic's weakness is tied to their fear, and it has not revealed much of Prof's past. His weakness would be his nightmare. Once someone know what he has for a nightmare, he would know his weakness.

I have also noticed that the Epic's are not just creatures, they are intellectual regarding to hiding their weakness and also finds nooks and crannies to use to their advantage.

Prof, being an Epic towards to the end and turning bad, scares me because not only he is bad. He's bad, intellectual, and extravagantly and ostentatiously strong. I believe he is stronger than Steelheart if he continues to find other nooks and crannies of his powers.

By the way, David is a nerd! :3

Also, how do you get Spoilers on your post?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Ragsiez

[Serial]

Type

before the spoiler

[Serial]

And then type

after the spoiler.

All in one post though, I separated to two posts to prevent it from spoiler tagging.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Serial

[Lightning]

Here is what I think Prof's weakness is.

 

Something to do with his science class children.  I imagine when he became an epic, he slaughtered them all.

[Andrew C]

Warning: Spoiler tags contain Firefight spoilers! 

 

 

Here is what I think Prof's weakness is.

 

Something to do with his science class children.  I imagine when he became an epic, he slaughtered them all.

 

I agree that that was his

Rending

.

 

I'm expecting, however, that his weakness is

Tia being threatened. Mainly for plot reasons - if she dies, Phaedrus will be able to kill every Reckoner everywhere and fast. Phaedrus will know this, and in High Epic mode will quickly act on it - unless something prevents him doing so.

.

[natc]

You know, I was hoping for that particular matchup for a while now, and it looks like we get our wish in Calamity.

 

Even without all of the "new" abilities he has that we never got to witness in action in Steelheart making him a much more capable fighter, he always did strike me as an incredibly dangerous fighter. Sure, he can't possibly win against Steelheart himself in a fight when one is invincible and the other is not, but if he stops having to worry about straining his willpower to its breaking point to stop himself from turning evil his implied combat potential was already amazing. Can turn any non-living matter to dust almost effortlessly with incredible precision, nearly indestructible force field, hyper-regeneration abilities.

 

Now we know that on top of that he can control the bubble's shape freely. Force field characters that could do so have always been powerful on that basis alone, since you basically have a manipulable equivalent of the hardest substance in the universe. Plus he can crush with it, and has superhuman strength. He's not as unkillable as Steelheart for sure, but he is several times more capable at killing.

Edited January 9, 2015 by natc