Shattered Plains = Urithiru

[marianmi]

Kelsier is able to stick around in the Cognitive Realm because he has a strong tie to the Physical Realm (vaguely alluded to here, although that is more of a general statement).  I'm of the opinion that Kelsier's "tie" is the Church of the Survivor, being worshipped as a god is what is keeping him from going into the light.

 

 

Being a sliver could make it easier for him, too (maybe he gained some knowledge when having the power?).

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Being a sliver could make it easier for him, too (maybe he gained some knowledge when having the power?).

 

But he only became a sliver after he had already been hanging around for two-ish years, so I don't really thinks so.  Keep in mind as well that the other two slivers we see, Vin and Rashek (or even Leras and Ati), don't stick around, so I don't really think that really has much to do with it?

[marianmi]

But he only became a sliver after he had already been hanging around for two-ish years, so I don't really thinks so.  Keep in mind as well that the other two slivers we see, Vin and Rashek (or even Leras and Ati), don't stick around, so I don't really think that really has much to do with it?

 

I was under the impression that Vin is around too ("However, be assured that I have spoken with our friends, and they are quite happy where they are") - I thought that Sazed cannot talk to those who "went towards the light".

I'm not sure though, so please correct me if I am wrong

[Arondell]

I was under the impression that Vin is around too ("However, be assured that I have spoken with our friends, and they are quite happy where they are") - I thought that Sazed cannot talk to those who "went towards the light".

I'm not sure though, so please correct me if I am wrong

 

I have a vague recollection that Mr. Sanderson stated that people could stick around post-death if they wanted to and that Kelsier did so because he was something of a troublemaker.

[Elementalist he/him]

What if Urithiru is at the Origin? Highstorms come from the west, so that would make sense with the fact that Urithiru was built in the west. Also, if Honor somehow produces the highstorms (as some have theorized) then it would also have been built at the place closest to Honor.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Power

[WeiryWriter he/him]

What if Urithiru is at the Origin? Highstorms come from the west, so that would make sense with the fact that Urithiru was built in the west. Also, if Honor somehow produces the highstorms (as some have theorized) then it would also have been built at the place closest to Honor.

 

Actually the Origin is in the East.  Highstorms move from east to west.

[Elementalist he/him]

Actually the Origin is in the East.  Highstorms move from east to west.

Welp. My hopes and dreams are crushed. So sad

Jk, glad you pointed that out. I should have paid more attention to what I was theorizing about.

[Rade]

Just a thought-- what if Highstorms originate out in the ocean near, say, Aimia (which has been theorized as Urithiru) then they move Westwards, Urithiru could be the origin as they go around the world that way.

 

Edit: This would also explain a bit of their strength, even if they are supernatural, if they are anything like normal storms at all, they should increase from being over water.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Rade

[Oudeis he/him]

Interesting... I had hypothesized that there was just one highstorm, which simply kept circling the globe, but at a best guess it would've had to travel something like eight times as fast as storms do on Earth for that to make any sense. Your version sounds better, so basically there are three or four Highstorms on the planet at any one time, it's just that most of them are currently over the sea on the other half of the world.

[Shardlet he/him]

Just a thought-- what if Highstorms originate out in the ocean near, say, Aimia (which has been theorized as Urithiru) then they move Westwards, Urithiru could be the origin as they go around the world that way.

 

Edit: This would also explain a bit of their strength, even if they are supernatural, if they are anything like normal storms at all, they should increase from being over water.

 

I had a similar thought until I realized that, 1) the storms cover essentially the entire southern Hemisphere of the planet (including the extreme south); and, 2) the water only helps generate big storms if the water is warm.  For example, if the water off the coast of Washington state was warm water (like ~65-75 deg. F rather than 30-35 deg. F), then we'd get nailed by massive storm after massive storm every winter.  But, it isn't and we don't. 

[Rade]

Well, we haven't EVER seen snow in this world yet (excepting the highest mountains), and we can almost tell that there isn't--the weeping at the years end and the highstorms never snow, so there wouldn't really be any. Therefore, the world must be pretty warm, and so would the water.

[Aether he/him]

Well, we haven't EVER seen snow in this world yet (excepting the highest mountains), and we can almost tell that there isn't--the weeping at the years end and the highstorms never snow, so there wouldn't really be any. Therefore, the world must be pretty warm, and so would the water.

It is important to remember that the seasons of Roshar are highly unpredictable and do not follow the same pattern as ours. There are several mentions of winter throughout the book, and though I am not sure if they have spoken about snow specifically, I do not think there is any indication to assume that there wouldn't be any even in Alethkar.

[Kurkistan he/him]

I can't find the quote at the moment (still looking), but Brandon has said that Roshar doesn't really have "season" in the sense of being hot/cold, but that the different seasons refer to the frequency/severity of highstorms, and that the names are holdovers in the language.

 

EDIT: Although the books, on reflection, seem to offer evidence for the seasons affecting temperature. I really need to find that quote.

 

EDIT 2: Found it. It was a summary:

•  Seasons on Roshar are based around the storms (ie long lighter storms in the winter, short stronger storms in the summer) rather than time or temperature
• Temperature stays fairly constant because of the lack of an axial tilt
• Despite not having traditional seasons they have the concept of seasons which must have come from somewhere else (read as: cosmere shenanigans)

 

So we could reconcile the two by positing that highstorms can affect temperature (at least locally/temporarily), rather than the other way around.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Shardlet he/him]

Well, we haven't EVER seen snow in this world yet (excepting the highest mountains), and we can almost tell that there isn't--the weeping at the years end and the highstorms never snow, so there wouldn't really be any. Therefore, the world must be pretty warm, and so would the water.

 

There are clearly temperature differences apparently affected by lattitude.  You have the Reshi sea in the north being described as warm and you have the Frostlands in the south.  The notability of the warmth of the Reshi sea suggests that it is notably warmer than much of the other seas on Roshar. And the Frostlands are fairly self explanatory.

[Inkthinker]

Nope, my copy is on my Nook. No fancy things like.. this thing.

The best thing about the hardbound editions is that they are the definitive printing (for now) on the artwork. In paperback we have to reduce some of the texture and detail, and in e-book we have to reduce size and resolution for memory (these still tend to be significantly "larger" as e-books than others of similar word count, thanks to the image files).

And with this series, the artwork isn't always just decorative... there's stuff to learn in there. The art in this series is purposeful, deliberate, and devised in direct partnership with Brandon. Remember, every image in these books is meant to represent an in-world document... that map is hanging in a library, those drawings are pages from a notebook, and so forth. Very little is done without purpose, and we're very careful about how the images are placed in the book.

For folks who read the e-book editions, all the artwork can be found at fairly high resolution on Brandon's site. For instance, all the published art from Kings can be found here. While I'm making a supposition here, I expect the same will hold true for the published artwork in Words of Radiance.

[Kier he/him]

I might be able to agree with this threory for the below reasons. 

 

That peaked rock formation ahead? That had probably once been a spire. Over the decades it had grown a patina of crem from the raging storms. That soft crem had seeped into cracks, lines between stones and filled windows, then slowly hardened. The spire now looked like an enormous stalagmite, rounded point towards the sky, sides knobbed with rock that looked as if it had been melted. The spire must have had a strong core to survive the winds so long

 

She passed in the shadow of a lump of rock that she had always imagined looked like a kind of city gate.

 

This is from the Eshonai Reading. The "Enormous Stalagmite" = The Tower City that is refrenced in TWOK as Urithiru. And the gate... and Oath Gate's remains perhaps?

 

I know its all a long stretch. However, I think it is the best type of forshadowing. Details that really have a specific meaning, but on there own, and thown in as "imagery" and "painting a scene" Thats really good.

[Rade]

I've got an idea that goes with something we discussed originally: What if Urithiru USED to be in Natanatan, and it left some parts of itself behind, but they then moved it elsewhere, specifically, into Shadesmar? I was re-reading WoK a bit, and I happened upon the part where Shallan is talking to Jasnah about Urithiru, and she asks if Urithiru is in Natanatan, and Jasnah says it isn't. To me, it just seemed like Jasnah was saying it in a self-satisfied way, as if she knew where it actually was. This might just be satisfaction at Shallan's good guess, but you can't prove a negative unless you have absolute proof that the question couldn't be true. The only absolute proof I can think of for that is if Jasnah knew where it really was. If Jasnah knew where it really was, wouldn't she have investigated it thoroughly? And, eventually, I believe that she would have announced it to the public, as I think that based on her character she would want the general people to be more...enlightened in general. There would only be one thing really stopping her: If it was a place that she couldn't publicly admit exists. Enter: Shadesmar. (Cognitive Realm.) Any ideas from anyone?

[Cayden]

It actually makes a great deal of sense for Urithiru to have been in Aimia. You cant get to it on foot as you would need to take a boat, or an Oathgate.

 

When the King says he walked there I think it is a pilgrimage where they literally walk a set path and then catch a boat across the sea, whilst others could use an Oathgate to transport.

 

I think the Shattered Plains is the site of the place where the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact, the Heralds in the prologue make it seem like there was devastation far beyond what is normal for a desolation, maybe the reason the Parshendi have Herald like glyphs is because they found it and are thankful to the Heralds for stopping the Desolations.

[Rade]

Maybe Natanatan is the area where the Radiants abandoned their Shardplate/Shardblades, if Feverstone Keep is supposed to be far away from the fighting, then the Radiants who abandoned stuff there might have been at the center of the Shattered Plains. If 300 people, each of them weighing about 350 pounds counting Shardplate land in the same area over a matter of second, then there would have been 105,000 pounds crashing down onto the plains. That sounds like it might cause some instability that could eventually turn into the Shattered Plains. (This is a conservative guess on the Shardplate weighing about 200 pounds and all of the Radiants being fit, not sure how much it would actually weigh.)

[Shardlet he/him]

Unfortunately, that doesn't account for Brandon writing "Great magic unleashed here" on someone's Roshar map with an arrow pointing at the Shattered Plains.

[hoser he/him]

Apologies for throwing in some annoying details. 

Maybe Natanatan is the area where the Radiants abandoned their Shardplate/Shardblades, if Feverstone Keep is supposed to be far away from the fighting, then the Radiants who abandoned stuff there might have been at the center of the Shattered Plains. If 300 people, each of them weighing about 350 pounds counting Shardplate land in the same area over a matter of second, then there would have been 105,000 pounds crashing down onto the plains. That sounds like it might cause some instability that could eventually turn into the Shattered Plains. (This is a conservative guess on the Shardplate weighing about 200 pounds and all of the Radiants being fit, not sure how much it would actually weigh.)

 

Feverstone Keep was not on the front lines, but it was still close to the conflict (from Chapter 52):

Apparently this keep was a fallback position behind the front lines of a war.

 

200 people marched up and 100 landed, so the impact would be 1/3 of what you suggested. 

 

It seems odd that for some minutes after the cataclysmic event that would eventually shatter the plains, there was no manifest instability.  The Windrunners or Skybreakers presumably have traveled together in numbers of 100 before.  If they shattered everywhere they landed, there would be more Shattered plains around. 

 

Dalinar reported that Natanatan "fell" several centuries before.  Having your capital city shattered could do that.  I have no real evidence that the falling of Natanatan was linked to the shattering of the plains, but at least the location is similar. 

 

The Shattered Plains hold the remains of a city.  Feverstone Keep overlooks a plains.  The city would have to have been built between the Knights landing and the Shattering.  That seems like quite a delay. 

[Rade]

Yeah, it was a long shot, but honestly I don't see much else I can think of that we know yet besides Urithiru falling from the sky to shatter the plains. And, for all we know, Natanatan (Eastern) was the conflict and the middle of it was close to the front lines, but still. Maybe the Shattering of Honor happened there instead? We don't really know what that type of thing might cause.

[Oudeis he/him]

I also don't think the plains were literally one solid plain that was later shattered, it's just a way to describe how it looks. Apart from the name, there's no evidence to support the idea that the land could crack in such a way. On Earth, when things hit the ground they make craters, they don't make otherwise-stable plateaus.

[Beautor he/him]

I also don't think the plains were literally one solid plain that was later shattered, it's just a way to describe how it looks. Apart from the name, there's no evidence to support the idea that the land could crack in such a way. On Earth, when things hit the ground they make craters, they don't make otherwise-stable plateaus.

 

You know what on earth does leave weird plateaus surrounded by cracks, albeit on a much smaller scale? A lake bed that suddenly dries up. I really doubt the shattered plains were a lake or shardpool but it is similar.

[Kier he/him]

You know what on earth does leave weird plateaus surrounded by cracks, albeit on a much smaller scale? A lake bed that suddenly dries up. I really doubt the shattered plains were a lake or shardpool but it is similar.

 

Well we do have the WoB that say "Great Magic Released here.." So yeah. Maybe the Shattered Plains are where Honor was Shattered? so not a shardpool/shardlake but maybe that is what realeased his power and created the shattered plains? I dunno, your comment just got me thinking.