Shattered Plains = Urithiru

[Natans]

GUYS GUYS GUYS

 

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121122112712/stormlightarchive/images/1/1f/Silver_Kingdoms.jpg

 

I'm not sure where that map came from or if it's "canon" or whatnot. But it's what I looked at to get my idea of Roshar being symmetric.

 

The Heralds on the border are flipped from the Heralds in the Surgechart. Line symmetry, top-to-bottom.

 

What is up with that? I have no idea. It just astounds me.

 

There are a theory that which silver kingdon would be associated with a herald, order of radiants, essence, etc. If you look at the position of every Herald them kind appoint which to a country in a symetric way.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Natans

[Aether]

Let's just say that there is nothing weird to it. If you see it in the book it'll have a nice symmetry to it, that's all.

 

The real interesting thing is how the map of Shadesmar is the inverse of the map of Roshar.

[WeiryWriter]

Nope, my copy is on my Nook. No fancy things like.. this thing. Wait so... left and right oriented how?

 

The two things I've seen (the surgechart and the silver map) were both oriented wider than tall, so with the map the words are upright and for the chart the larkins are also upright. On the Surgechart, Jezrien is in the upper right (so near the Windrunner symbol) and the Heralds proceed in order clockwise. On the map, Jezrien is in the lower right (so near Natanatan) and the Heralds proceed in order anti-clockwise. Is that how it is with everyone? And we think that's simply a matter of, how it was stuck in the book?

 

Here is how it looks like in the book if you open just the cover. (sorry for the blurry/darkness)

 

The real interesting thing is how the map of Shadesmar is the inverse of the map of Roshar.

 

I'm actually pretty skeptical about that because it shouldn't be a perfect mirror.  Space works differently in the Cognitive Realm, space in the Physical Realm where there is a ton of cognitive activity gets expanded while space where there is little cognitive activity shrinks.  I'm of the opinion that is an artist's interpretation of a Shadesmar map and not an accurate depiction of it.

Edited December 10, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[Shardlet]

@Shardlet - I just searched and couldn't find where the Dawnshards are associated with the creation of the dawncities.  I had assumed that they were both from the "dawn" of time in Roshar.  Could you please help me out with the source for the dawnshards creating the cities? 

 

I may have simply made a slippery slope assumption based on the co-usage of the word 'dawn'.  I'd have to check the cymatics chapter to be sure.

 

Even if it is an assumption, I don't think it an unreasonable one.  We have the dawnshards, the dawncities, the dawnchant, and the dawnsingers.  I suspect that there is a significant connection between them all.

[hoser]

@Shardlet - Thanks

I may have simply made a slippery slope assumption based on the co-usage of the word 'dawn'.  I'd have to check the cymatics chapter to be sure.

 

Even if it is an assumption, I don't think it an unreasonable one.  We have the dawnshards, the dawncities, the dawnchant, and the dawnsingers.  I suspect that there is a significant connection between them all.

I appreciate your clarification. It could save me from quoting the idea and looking even more foolish than normal.

 

I can imagine H+C coming from the tranquilline halls, terraforming Shinovar as a starting point for humanity and seeding some highstorm-protected city locations with formations that do not seem natural.  They would be using at least Shards of A.  I'm still not clear whether those are the same as dawnshards.   It seems like all these dawn-things could be fundamentally related as you say, but it also seems like the dawn prefix could just mean prehistoric.  The pre-Radiant Desolations seem like they would reboot society and destroy knowledge of history. 

[Shardlet]

I just checked back with the cymatics chapter.  There is a mention of the Dawmsingers in conjunction with symmetry specifically.  But there is no mention of the Dawnshards nor are the four cities called the dawncities.  So the tie becomes weaker and weaker.  However, I do still stand by my comments in post 18 and now edited post 16 in this thread.

[Rade]

I think there IS a mention of the dawncities, although I can't remember where.

Btw, ty earlier for telling me how to do the spoiler thing, that was informational. I hadn't known about that.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Rade

[Rade]

Btw, if you look at the map of Roshar, try flipping that chain of islands and taking Aimia out of the picture and see what happens. Then try twisting Aimia around a bit and shoving it into that gap where the rivers are. To me, that looks pretty symmetrical. (Alright, yes, you have to completely deform Aimia, but waves can do that to an island after who knows how long! Or, if you really want symmetry, try taking it out of the picture entirely. Maybe Aimia IS Urithiru, and it was "placed" there as an island. It is the most far west spot on the map, Btw, does anybody know how to make a map of that, but without any of the labels and drawing the ripples that show elevation underwater that are around all of the continents? I think we would get a more complete picture of the world that way. Because, if you look at the outermost ripples, if you discount Aimia the shape is almost a perfect ellipses with about 10 spots where there are regular bumps around the edge.

 

*By spots I mean sections, not just individual bumps

Edited December 11, 2013 by Rade

[Shardlet]

I think there IS a mention of the dawncities, although I can't remember where.

Btw, ty earlier for telling me how to do the spoiler thing, that was informational. I hadn't known about that.

 

Hah, I just searched on my Kindle and found that there were indeed four mentions of the Dawncities.  At locs. 13657, 13658, 13663, and 15466.  The first three locations are in a Dalinar POV (Ch. 54) at one of the feasts in the conversation with Highprince Hatham and Au-Nak (the Natan visitor).  Hatham indicates, in conjunction with a discussion of Sesemalex Dar, that his wife studies the Dawncities.  Dalinar thinks about a current trend of cities trying to link their origins to the Dawnsingers.

 

So, still no discussion of Dawnshards in conjunction with this.  But, at least my memory isn't completely fried.  Thanks Rade! 

 

Edit: NP on the spoiler tip.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Shardlet

[marianmi]

Side question: Is it possible she studies the Dawncities as something related to the Desolation, and Hatham had a big mouth - or thought nobody understands why she's studying them? Or maybe Hatham (and his wife) is part of one of the secret societies?

[Shardlet]

I think that may be reading a bit too deeply into it at this point.  Since being one of the Dawncities is a current status symbol.  It doesn't seem like there need be any suspicion of such study.  I think the point of the conversation was to give more information about Sesemalex Dar (which Kaladin saw in his stormride vision and later discussed with Sigzil).  

[Talenel]

Hi guys, first time poster here. Has there been WoB on what happens physically, when a shard is splintered? I might be making a leap here, but maybe the shattered plains is where Odium splintered Honor, one of the previous posters mentioned that Brandon wrote on a map of the shattered plains "great magic unleashed here". Maybe splintering a shard causes some massive power-explosion for want of a better term, and that is why (other than obvious reasons) Odium's brief visit to Sel was so disastrous.

[Shardlet]

It has been tossed around before that that was what caused the shattered plains.  There is no WoB yet on what happens when during splintering. 

[hoser]

Upvote on first post! Welcome!

Hi guys, first time poster here. Has there been WoB on what happens physically, when a shard is splintered? I might be making a leap here, but maybe the shattered plains is where Odium splintered Honor, one of the previous posters mentioned that Brandon wrote on a map of the shattered plains "great magic unleashed here". Maybe splintering a shard causes some massive power-explosion for want of a better term, and that is why (other than obvious reasons) Odium's brief visit to Sel was so disastrous.

There are two things that seem relevant to me. 

In Starfall(s?), with the vision of the midnight essence and the Radiants, Dalinar mentions that Natanatan fell centuries before.   If the fall of the country coincided with the shattering of the plains, then the shattering seems much later than I would guess the splintering to have occurred.  I think Honor may have been splintered around the time of the Recreance, which was much earlier.  

 

Elantris spoiler

There is no similar feature near Elantris, where Devotion's shardpool is.

 

None of this resembles solid evidence, but they leave me doubting that the splintering caused the shattering.  OTOH, I have no better idea, so why not?

[Talenel]

Happy to be given evidence to the contrary! I didn't think it would line up timeline-wise, i was at work, just had a random thought. I forgot about the recreance. I'd been lurking for too long though, thought i would put something forward. Nice to be welcome.

[Aether]

Always cool to see lurkers step up. Keep on the good work, newbie! =P

[Oudeis]

Side question: Is it possible she studies the Dawncities as something related to the Desolation, and Hatham had a big mouth - or thought nobody understands why she's studying them? Or maybe Hatham (and his wife) is part of one of the secret societies?

 

?? I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you referring to the fact that Kabsal (sp?) was interested in the symmetric cities with cymatics, and turned out to be from an evil secret society?

[Shardlet]

Kabsal is still somewhat of an enigma.  How much of what he did and was is connected to his being a Ghostblood.  He clearly had a scholarly interest in the four basic cymatic cities as shown by his writings on it that we have in WoK.  Whether that research had any connection to what he did for the Ghostbloods remains to be seen.

[Oudeis]

Kabsal is still somewhat of an enigma.  How much of what he did and was is connected to his being a Ghostblood.  He clearly had a scholarly interest in the four basic cymatic cities as shown by his writings on it that we have in WoK.  Whether that research had any connection to what he did for the Ghostbloods remains to be seen.

 

Since it was part of his cover as an Ardent, and explained as such in-world (and no one seemed to find it weird) it at least has to be a topic that masquerades as normal.

[Shardlet]

I think he may even actually be an ardent.  Just one with a hidden allegiance.  He may have simply arrived in Karbranth recently, accounting for the unfamiliarity of the the other ardents with him.

[Moogle]

I think he may even actually be an ardent.  Just one with a hidden allegiance.  He may have simply arrived in Karbranth recently, accounting for the unfamiliarity of the the other ardents with him.

 

Or the other ardents lied about knowing him.

 

I don't trust ardents.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Moogle

[Shardlet]

Whether they were involved or not, it is certainly in their best interests to respond the way they did.  It would be bad for the ardentia if one of their members tried to assassinate the sister of the king of Alethkar.

[Rade]

I think that since Kabsal does have a hidden allegiance, as there would be LOTS of topics he could research as an ardent,but I think he picked that one because it would benefit the Ghost bloods somehow. On a completely different note that has to do with the Shattering of Honor, what exactly IS the Shattering of a Shard. Is it just that the host for the Shard dies, or is it that the Shard itself was split into pieces and scattered? Also, do we have any word on when the high storms started coming? They don't seem like an exactly natural phenomenon, and I wonder if they have some connection with the Splintering of Honor and all that. I doubt that they've been there forever.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Rade

[Arondell]

On a completely different note that has to do with the Shattering of Honor, what exactly IS the Shattering of a Shard. Is it just that the host for the Shard dies, or is it that the Shard itself was split into pieces and scattered?

 

It is my understanding that a shard shatters after it's holder is killed.  To be more precise when a holder is killed the shard is dropped.  It is in my opinion unclear if further effort is required to shatter a shard or if the shard will eventually shatter on its own if it is not taken up within a certain time period.  The shattering itself is fairly self explanatory.  The power falls apart into small pieces that manifest in various ways.  These "splinters" usually manifest some aspect of the shards original intent.

[marianmi]

?? I'm afraid I don't understand. Are you referring to the fact that Kabsal (sp?) was interested in the symmetric cities with cymatics, and turned out to be from an evil secret society?

 

I am referring to the fact that Highprince's Hatham wife spends her time studying the Dawncities. This may be because she has nothing better to do, or maybe because her study was requested by Hatham or by somebody else working with Hatham - like the Ghostbloods (or maybe some other party).

 

I was just trying to put up the idea that Hatham is part of the Ghostbloods.