Updated synopsis for words of radiance

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Apparently Surgebinding is one of most difilcult magics to use in Brandon magic systems.

 

You need "A broken soul"

You need attract an special kind of spren

You need act in a given way, but apparently not only act, but really believe in the thing you are doing.

You need know the "words" to gain power

You need stormlight to full your power

 

It's a lot of "needs" I curious to know how the KR of old trained new Knight. How you can teach a person to have a broken soul or believe deeply in the ideal like Kaladin.

 

That would explain the fact that apparently there aren't many Radiants (1500 to 3000 in accord with we know), a elite order indeed.  

 

And another thing how Kaladin will teach this for brigde 4, if it's possible teach.

 

That one KR was offering Dalinar (in another body) a spot just for having some killer swordsmanship. I think we have a lot of missing information on the "attract types of spren" issue that will help this along.

 

There has also been a hint at a certain method for spren bonding that doesn't seem so random.

[Moogle]

Also, do we know what Herald goes with the Bondsmiths? 

 

Kalak or Ishar are the only two options. We know all the names of the Orders besides 8 and 10. I'm quite firmly convinced it's Order 10, because Order 10 has Pressure (used to bind things) and Surface Tension, while 8 has Transportation and ?.

 

From the Ars Arcanum, if anyone thinks it helps:

8 Kak Amethyst Foil The nails Metal Resolute Builder

10 Ishi Heliodor Sinew Flesh Meat, flesh Pious Guiding

 

Also worth noting is that the attributes associated with each Order tend to have nothing to do with the Order's name. Windrunners have Protecting/Leading, Elsecallers have Wise/Careful, etc.

 

I think Dalinar works better as Pious/Guiding, because he seems to be in the same position as Nohadon. Order 10 spren are likely more of Honor than Cultivation, too, compared to Order 8, and I don't see much Cultivation in Dalinar.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Moogle

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

Kalak or Ishar are the only two options. We know all the names of the Orders besides 8 and 10. I'm quite firmly convinced it's Order 10, because Order 10 has Pressure (used to bind things) and Surface Tension, while 8 has Transportation and ?.

 

From the Ars Arcanum, if anyone thinks it helps:

8 Kak Amethyst Foil The nails Metal Resolute Builder

10 Ishi Heliodor Sinew Flesh Meat, flesh Pious Guiding

Bondsmith doesn't sound like more of a Builder title to you? I think 10 as well, but you can make a case for either based on that.

[Scriptorian he/him]

Just look at the Herald info on the coppermind, and I'm gonna go with Kalak. Resolute/builder seem to fit excellently, and the essence, foil, seems to fit pretty well with "smiths".

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Kalak or Ishar are the only two options. We know all the names of the Orders besides 8 and 10. I'm quite firmly convinced it's Order 10, because Order 10 has Pressure (used to bind things) and Surface Tension, while 8 has Transportation and ?.

 

From the Ars Arcanum, if anyone thinks it helps:

8 Kak Amethyst Foil The nails Metal Resolute Builder

10 Ishi Heliodor Sinew Flesh Meat, flesh Pious Guiding

 

Also worth noting is that the attributes associated with each Order tend to have nothing to do with the Order's name. Windrunners have Protecting/Leading, Elsecallers have Wise/Careful, etc.

 

I think Dalinar works better as Pious/Guiding, because he seems to be in the same position as Nohadon. Order 10 spren are likely more of Honor than Cultivation, too, compared to Order 8, and I don't see much Cultivation in Dalinar.

 

Actually we don't know Order 5/Palah either.  Of course I highly doubt they would be the Bondsmiths, since it doesn't fit the surges of Growth/Illumination.

 

Personally I'm leaning towards Order 8/Kalak but I'm not convinced either way.

[Shardbearer he/him]

I'm thinking 10 for Bondsmiths...but who knows.

 

And who is the in world writer of this back end matter? Could be Hoid, I guess, or possibly a 17th sharder.

[Moogle]

Bondsmith doesn't sound like more of a Builder title to you? I think 10 as well, but you can make a case for either based on that.

 

Order names have nothing to do with their attributes.

 

Windrunners - Protecting/Leading

Skybreakers - Just/Confident

Dustbringers - Brave/Obedient

Edgedancers - Loving/Healing

Lightweavers - Creative/Honest (Creative might fit the name)

Elsecallers - Wise/Careful

Stonewardens - Dependable/Resourceful

 

Based on this, I do not think that it is evidence that Bondsmith fits with Resolute/Builder.

 

Actually we don't know Order 5/Palah either.  Of course I highly doubt they would be the Bondsmiths, since it doesn't fit the surges of Growth/Illumination.

 

Good catch, my bad. I agree though that Order 5 can be thrown right out the window.

 

Just look at the Herald info on the coppermind, and I'm gonna go with Kalak. Resolute/builder seem to fit excellently, and the essence, foil, seems to fit pretty well with "smiths".

 

Foil/metal fits well. However, the pattern is that the essence does not necessarily imply the Order's name:

 

Windrunner - Zephyr (okay this fits)

Skybreaker - Vapor (okay this fits)

Dustbringer - Spark (okay this fits)

Edgedancer - Lucentia/glass

Lightweaver - Blood

Elsecaller - Oil

Stonewarden - Bone/stone (okay this fits)

 

4/7 Orders have Essences/Soulcasting properties that relate to their order.

 

Now, compare Surges to the Order name:

 

Windrunner - Pressure/Gravity (fits, they can run in the wind with gravity, and pressure lets them control the wind)

Skybreaker - Gravity/Division (fits, they fly with gravity and break things with division)

Dustbringer - Division/Friction (fits, division turns things to dust)

Edgedancer - Friction/Growth (dancer fits fine with friction)

Lightweaver - Illumination/Transformation (light fits, weaver fits with transformation)

Elsecaller - Transformation/Transportation (caller fits with transportation, caller fits with transformation)

Stonewarden - Surface Tension/??? (not enough information to say for sure, but I think this might not fit)

 

6/7 Orders associate with their Surges well. Order 10 has Surface Tension/Pressure. Bondsmith therefore has a high chance of working with bonds... or rather, the Pressure Surge.

 

I guess it could be Order 8, but I'm not very convinced.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Moogle

[Natans he/him]

 

That one KR was offering Dalinar (in another body) a spot just for having some killer swordsmanship. I think we have a lot of missing information on the "attract types of spren" issue that will help this along.

 

There has also been a hint at a certain method for spren bonding that doesn't seem so random.

 

But he didn't know if Dalinar had what take to be a Radiant, he said that there are space to Dalinar but this could be was a regular soldier or officer, after all you can't have a army without troops. The Radiants must act like champions/generals.

 

Apparently you can only do so much in terms of radiant training, because you can teach the ideals and such but you can't make a man have a broken soul, or make him believe in smothing soo deeply that a spren would choose bond with him. This give a hard limitation to this magic system.

 

Likely a Radiant is the pinacle of this magic sytem.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

But he didn't know if Dalinar had what take to be a Radiant, he said that there are space to Dalinar but this could be was a regular soldier or officer, after all you can't have a army without troops. The Radiants must act like champions/generals.

 

Apparently you can only do so much in terms of radiant training, because you can teach the ideals and such but you can't make a man have a broken soul, or make him believe in smothing soo deeply that a spren would choose bond with him. This give a hard limitation to this magic system.

 

Likely a Radiant is the pinacle of this magic sytem.

Point being that we would think those options are uncontrollable, but some of them actually have processes that aren't so random.

[Pechvarry]

These back covers are too dramatic and pessimistic to be written by Hoid. Not his personality at all. Plus, tWoK makes references to "we" I believe.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Hm... Protecting is honor, Vengeance is honor+odium ( it is obviously honorable, but with a hatred twist ) I wonder what the pairs are. Faith and Zealotry? Honesty and Malicious Snarkiness?

Malicious Snarkiness? If that's one, then Shallan and Hoid are going to team up, join Odium, and be rulers of the world through their application of sarcastic comments. They could blow away Kharbranth with an ironic response, and they would play off eachother until the world was destroyed in their snarky debate!

[Swimmingly he/him]

These back covers are too dramatic and pessimistic to be written by Hoid. Not his personality at all. Plus, tWoK makes references to "we" I believe.

These are not in-universe text, guys. It is there to advertise the contents of the book, not as a report by some sort of interworld subversive organization that recruits secondary characters from everywhere and uses them to do mysterious things that we don't get wait a minute I just remembered this is Brandon. Never mind then. My money's on the overdramatic artist.

[Youngy he/him]

Apparently Surgebinding is one of most difilcult magics to use in Brandon magic systems.

 

You need "A broken soul"

You need attract an special kind of spren

You need act in a given way, but apparently not only act, but really believe in the thing you are doing.

You need know the "words" to gain power

You need stormlight to full your power

 

It's a lot of "needs" I curious to know how the KR of old trained new Knight. How you can teach a person to have a broken soul or believe deeply in the ideal like Kaladin.

 

That would explain the fact that apparently there aren't many Radiants (1500 to 3000 in accord with we know), a elite order indeed.  

 

And another thing how Kaladin will teach this for brigde 4, if it's possible teach.

 

As for the attract spren and act a given way - I think they are one and the same condition. Kaladin acting this way makes Syl attracted to him.

However we must remember 'not all spren are as discerning as honourspren.'

[Natans he/him]

As for the attract spren and act a given way - I think they are one and the same condition. Kaladin acting this way makes Syl attracted to him.

However we must remember 'not all spren are as discerning as honourspren.'

 

But this don't change the fact that a person must have a broken soul AND act or beliece in some way to attract the said spren,much more complicate that lets say, "snap"in Mistborn, there you hitted the pit and f you had the right sdna you gained aceass to some power.

 

Here you hit the bottom is only the first step, you must act in some specific way, attract some spren, bond it him and live by some ancient ideal, not easy.

 

Aon, Alomancer, Biochroma, forgering, etc for sure are muchhhh more simple to obtain than surgepower.

 

=)

[TheKraken]

The first three sound like pretty much the same thing to me. Being broken is what makes both Kaladin and Dalinar act honorably. Shallan gave the very reason she's broken to a cryptic to enable her to soulcast.

 

And we really don't know what's the criteria to be reborn as an Elantrian, so there's no way to say how easy or hard that is. And forging is pretty much a skill, technically it should be harder than the others to be "strong" in it because it depends almost completely on training.

[11thorderknight]

It is the nature of the magic. A broken soul has cracks into which something else can be fit.  Surgebindings, the powers of creation themselves.  They can brace a broken soul; but they can also widen its fissures.

 

"Broken soul" is a very metaphorical phrase, and in this context I read it as saying that a person who has endured some psychological hardship and has an inner drive to change something about themselves, tends to attract spren, which in turn gives them surgebinding. That's actually a pretty accurate and insightful description. If you look at real-world history, the individuals who produced great innovations or were leaders generally didn't have very happy childhoods.

 

More interesting, to me, is the part about widening fissures. I've stated before, and will state again, that I believe there's something about surgebinding that allows its practitioners to be corrupted by Odium, or in some other way lead to Desolations. There's lots of evidence for this, starting with Nohadon's "not all spren are as discerning as honorspren", the Radiants abandoning their Shards, to Eshonai's statement about the Parshendi "lost gods", to a very direct quote from a character in the Steelhunt interlude that is widely believed to be in a position to know.

[marianmi]

I think it's pretty clear that Dalinar is Bondsmith, and Bondsmith is resolute/builder #8.

I had thought for a long time Dalinar would be #10, pious/guiding, but after the back cover information I now think he's #8. 

 

I like the introduction of a "broken soul" required for a bond. I think I was the first one to propose the "conflict" theory, whereas each proto-radiant has a "inner conflict", usually about one of the order ideals. I think now we can expand "conflict" to "broken soul".

 

With previous information, I could not see how one "important" person, that does awesome stuff, does not become radiant. I mean, if it was just based on how you act, the moment you do something monumental, you would attract a spren, right? Now we have our answer - you also need a broken soul.

 

Kaladin (Tien), Dalinar (Gavilar), Shallan (her father) - all fit now better.

 

Jasnah - what happened to her? Previously I thought she attracted a spren because she was "wise", a perfect scholar. Now, I am sure it was not because of that. We don't know that much about her, and given this new information, I am now most interested about her past.

 

Elhokar - also a very interesting case. How is he broken? Is it something to do with his father? Is it something to do with his paranoia?

 

Renarin - while he seemes a quiet and introvert guy, I really hope he does not get into the "broken soul" category. I think I prefer him a non-radiant, nice, smart, quiet guy, and the spren that only he can see is not a bonding spren, but something else Let's have him only with something physical broken, not his soul too!

 

Adolin - this one is also difficult to predict. He does not seem broken, but are his dalliances with so many girls a sign of something more going on ?

[Argent he/him]

Regarding the broken soul - the blurb can be read in a way that makes it look like it refers to a very specific broken soul (it's not an idea I fully endorse, I see it as a possibility). If that specific soul is Honor's, it could explain why using Surgebindings could potentially lead to another Desolation (widening the fissures, etc).

[Aether he/him]

Jasnah - what happened to her? Previously I thought she attracted a spren because she was "wise", a perfect scholar. Now, I am sure it was not because of that. We don't know that much about her, and given this new information, I am now most interested about her past.

It is hinted at that Jasnah has been mistreated by a man in the past. After Shallan's philosophical lesson, she speaks quite harshly of "men like those". and Shallan notices an edge to her that she'd previously not seen.

 

As to Elokhar, I think I remember reading that his father was assassinated or something. Maybe that could be enough?

[kraefzke]

As to Elokhar, I think I remember reading that his father was assassinated or something. Maybe that could be enough?

:lol:

[marianmi]

As to Elokhar, I think I remember reading that his father was assassinated or something. Maybe that could be enough?

 

Hmmm... are you sure about this assasination? Do you have a quote? Or is it WoB?

 

:D

[Aether he/him]

I am pretty sure Brandon has RAFOed this, but there are some hints to this in the Way of Kings. I'll see if I can find them when I get home later today.

 

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know where the Gavilar character went? He completely disappeared after the Prologue!

Edited December 9, 2013 by Aether

[The Rooster he/him]

I am pretty sure Brandon has RAFOed this, but there are some hints to this in the Way of Kings. I'll see if I can find them when I get home later today.

 

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know where the Gavilar character went? He completely disappeared after the Prologue!

 

IIRC he retired from kinging and became a humble Cobbler.

[Bloodfalcon he/him]

IIRC he retired from kinging and became a humble Cobbler.

IIRC he was Soulcast into a delicious cobbler.

[Shardlet he/him]

Mmmm...peach cobbler