Argent he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 I think we can have a single book focus on one Radiant Order, but show flashbacks of somebody from another.
Oudeis he/him Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Yes; however, it's not proof that Eshonai has to be a Releaser or Willshaper. For all we know she'll be another Windrunner, because clearly our viewpoint characters are not a match to the ten orders, whether or not the books are.
Brightlord he/him Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I'm curious why nobody has mentioned Teft. He's traveled, knowledgable, has been shown to be able to train people despite his own self-loathing. He had three POV chapters in WoR and he frequently uses Kalak in his curses (Kalak being the presumed founder of the Willshapers). His status as a broken-but-begrudgingly-hopeful warrior is pretty consistent with Kalak's status at the breaking of the Oathpact, as well. Edit: In addition, when he attempted to prevent the torturous methods used by his Order to bring out the Surgebinding, why was everyone but him executed? Presumably because the "authority" saw something in him? Edited October 23, 2015 by Brightlord 1
DreamEternal Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) I'm curious why nobody has mentioned Teft. He's traveled, knowledgable, has been shown to be able to train people despite his own self-loathing. The problem is that he is knowledgeable by bridgeman standards, and never seemed to care about expanding his limited knowledge. An if it comes to travelled, Sigzil outmatches him by miles. Edited October 23, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Posted October 23, 2015 I'm curious why nobody has mentioned Teft. He's traveled, knowledgable, has been shown to be able to train people despite his own self-loathing. He had three POV chapters in WoR and he frequently uses Kalak in his curses (Kalak being the presumed founder of the Willshapers). His status as a broken-but-begrudgingly-hopeful warrior is pretty consistent with Kalak's status at the breaking of the Oathpact, as well. Edit: In addition, when he attempted to prevent the torturous methods used by his Order to bring out the Surgebinding, why was everyone but him executed? Presumably because the "authority" saw something in him? Because Teft need Kaladin to overcome his own brokenness. He did not do it by himself and he still needs Kaladin to drive him forward. That's why.
Charononus Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Not sure if this was confirmed anywhere, but my impression was that each book would focus on a different order, and the main character of that book would be a member of/the founder of that order. The following are characters he's mentioned as being main characters and their orders. Kaladin - Windrunner Shallan - Lightweaver Szeth - Skybreaker Dalinar - Bondsmith Jasnah - Elsecaller Renarin - Truthwatcher Lift - Edgedancer Taln - the Herald the Stonewards followed That leaves Eshonai as a main character without an order and the orders Dustbringers and Willshapers. Of the two orders, I believe Eshonai fits the Dustbringers better. My impression while reading was that the Dustbringers weren't angry the way some people describe them; rather, they were just misunderstood. They had destructive powers and a willingness to do what was necessary, which gave them a bad reputation. I believe Eshonai fits this perfectly, like when she tries stir form first even though it might be dangerous because it could save her people. This might just be a coincidence, but Dustbringers were also called Releasers, and Eshonai is partly responsible for releasing the Everstorm. That just leaves the Willshapers without a character. Of all the characters, I believe Rysn fits their description best. They loved adventure and oddities. She did a dangerous stunt and broke both her legs to complete a sale for a rare item. Besides, the item they were trading for was a dead creature that kings trade fortunes for. At the end of the chapter she got a live one which hasn't been seen in years and the people of the island have no control over. Those creatures sound an awful lot like spren to me… Is Szeth really a skybreaker or proto-skybreaker now? Yeah Nalan implies it, but he's kind of nuts. I took what he said about that with a large grain of salt when I read it.
I_am_NOT_fire Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Can I just say that Rysn fits all of the willshaper criteria? Yep, it's Rysn. Rysn Rysn Rysn Rysn Rysn Rysn Rysn! 1
Brightlord he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 The problem is that he is knowledgeable by bridgeman standards, and never seemed to care about expanding his limited knowledge. An if it comes to travelled, Sigzil outmatches him by miles. You're judging him based on his present, not based on who he was. He helped lead a minor rebellion against the ways of his Order, he fought his way into being a Sgt in the army. From what little we know of his past, anything he has that might impede his qualifications also seems to apply to Kaladin. And while yes, who he "is" now is important, but like Kaladin holding onto the vestige of his honorable self through the gloom, Teft is clearly still holding onto a scrap of who he really was despite his own personal challenges.
Brightlord he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Because Teft need Kaladin to overcome his own brokenness. He did not do it by himself and he still needs Kaladin to drive him forward. That's why. Doesn't Syl function in this same capacity for Kaladin?
Elbereth she/her Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) It thus means one order will be focus in a book where the flashback character won't be from that order... Quite puzzling.Doesn't Kaladin get another flashback in the second half, or has that changed? Edited October 24, 2015 by Elbereth (Limelleth)
WeiryWriter he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Doesn't Kaladin get another flashback in the second half, or has that changed? That is no longer the plan.
Elbereth she/her Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Okay, thanks. I thought that might be the case, just because no one was mentioning it, but I wanted to make sure.
Shardbearer he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Doesn't Kaladin get another flashback in the second half, or has that changed? That is no longer the plan. I didn't know that was ever the plan.
Guest Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I didn't know that was ever the plan. It was, a long time ago. I'm glad he changed his mind. Doesn't Syl function in this same capacity for Kaladin? Because Kaladin was worth it. He already was behaving like an untrained Windrunner when she chose him. Teft just does not have this "special quality". Kaladin did not need Syl to strive to protect those he felt needed it: he needed her to expand his vision and grow on it, but he already was protecting. Teft needed Kaladin for everything, so I don't see him as a prospective Radiant, not now really. I can't say about the future. Edited October 24, 2015 by maxal
Brightlord he/him Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Because Kaladin was worth it. He already was behaving like an untrained Windrunner when she chose him. Teft just does not have this "special quality". Kaladin did not need Syl to strive to protect those he felt needed it: he needed her to expand his vision and grow on it, but he already was protecting. Teft needed Kaladin for everything, so I don't see him as a prospective Radiant, not now really. I can't say about the future. I'm not necessarily referring to the future, I'm referring to the mysteries of his past. He was pretty keen on observing the early signs of Kaladin's bond, which he explains by sharing what his Order was, but everytime Kaladin asks him about the Order later he claims to have not been paying enough attention to know. If he was so inattentive to the tenets of his Order, then why is he so privy to the signs of a bond? Aye, Kaladin was worth it when he was found, and he hit a dark period. We have very little history for Teft, but we know he was willful enough to go up against the leader of his Order (and, like Kaladin, was spared while everyone else was slain - and given that his Order was to "create" Surgebinders, it stands to reason that this may be why he was spared). We know that, after that, he still found the wherewithal to try to be happy with marriage, eventually enlisting and having the ambition to rise up to a position of Sergeant before becoming a Bridgeman. It's very possible that, like Jasnah who kept Ivory hidden from us, Teft may have also developed a bond at some juncture. The obvious counter to that is, of course, that Rock can see Syl, so why not Teft's spren (if he still has the spren, that is)? We don't know that Rock can see all spren, though. He doesn't seem to be aware of Glys after Renarin's bond, and doesn't seem to notice Pattern who is very much visible.
Guest Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I'm not necessarily referring to the future, I'm referring to the mysteries of his past. He was pretty keen on observing the early signs of Kaladin's bond, which he explains by sharing what his Order was, but everytime Kaladin asks him about the Order later he claims to have not been paying enough attention to know. If he was so inattentive to the tenets of his Order, then why is he so privy to the signs of a bond? Aye, Kaladin was worth it when he was found, and he hit a dark period. We have very little history for Teft, but we know he was willful enough to go up against the leader of his Order (and, like Kaladin, was spared while everyone else was slain - and given that his Order was to "create" Surgebinders, it stands to reason that this may be why he was spared). We know that, after that, he still found the wherewithal to try to be happy with marriage, eventually enlisting and having the ambition to rise up to a position of Sergeant before becoming a Bridgeman. It's very possible that, like Jasnah who kept Ivory hidden from us, Teft may have also developed a bond at some juncture. The obvious counter to that is, of course, that Rock can see Syl, so why not Teft's spren (if he still has the spren, that is)? We don't know that Rock can see all spren, though. He doesn't seem to be aware of Glys after Renarin's bond, and doesn't seem to notice Pattern who is very much visible. Teft noticed the early signs of Kaladin's bond because he was partly raised in a sect who prone the return of the Radiants. His parents lived and breath to find signs of an upcoming bond, so it become a second nature. As for him denouncing his order, he was a small child scared for his parents well-being when he did so. His mother had just committed suicide in order to try to gain a bond, so he wanted to put an end to it. Sadly, he was forced to watch his father being hanged. We also have clues Teft may have a problem with money... He says in WoR how it is not good he should have money again. Your guess is as good as mine. I thus don't think Teft, or any of the bridgemen, are proto-Radiants.
Jondesu he/him Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 We also have clues Teft may have a problem with money... He says in WoR how it is not good he should have money again. Your guess is as good as mine. You know, I'd forgotten about that. What is money on Roshar? Spheres. What do spheres contain? Stormlight. Maybe he doesn't actually have a problem with money. Maybe he doesn't want the Stormlight anymore. Maybe because he either doesn't want to use his surges, or it reminds him of a Spren he bonded… then killed. I'm not saying that either of those things happened, and I suspect his story is not of a proto-Radiant, but that part could actually point more to that possibility. jW
Guest Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 You know, I'd forgotten about that. What is money on Roshar? Spheres. What do spheres contain? Stormlight. Maybe he doesn't actually have a problem with money. Maybe he doesn't want the Stormlight anymore. Maybe because he either doesn't want to use his surges, or it reminds him of a Spren he bonded… then killed. I'm not saying that either of those things happened, and I suspect his story is not of a proto-Radiant, but that part could actually point more to that possibility. jW I am not saying this is impossible but I'll say I think it is improbable. RAFO will tell us where Teft is going.
Brightlord he/him Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 Teft noticed the early signs of Kaladin's bond because he was partly raised in a sect who prone the return of the Radiants. His parents lived and breath to find signs of an upcoming bond, so it become a second nature. As for him denouncing his order, he was a small child scared for his parents well-being when he did so. His mother had just committed suicide in order to try to gain a bond, so he wanted to put an end to it. Sadly, he was forced to watch his father being hanged. We also have clues Teft may have a problem with money... He says in WoR how it is not good he should have money again. Your guess is as good as mine. I thus don't think Teft, or any of the bridgemen, are proto-Radiants. Yes, but you're sidestepping the point I made after mentioning the Envisagers. Everytime someone, say Sigzil in Ch71, asks him about them, he tries to avoid answering and claims he just didn't pay enough attention (though obviously he was fairly versed, no?). Teft obviously has strong hang-ups about people that overreach their station, as is demonstrated when he internally-monologues about Moash's rebellious ambitions and Renarin's desire to join Bridge Four. He has this monologue just after he's explained how his mother put herself into a suicidal situation because she strongly believed that she was destined to be a Surgebinder. And yet, for a man that is so hung up on not trying to be something you're not, he has consistently regressed in status all the way down to a Bridgeman, which is something he seems to accept willfully. Given the nature of his parents' deaths, would it be surprising to learn that he was running from that reality? ...Though, if I had to make a second guess, I'd say Axies the Collector makes a lot of sense as well.
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