Szeth's Truth

[Truthseeker]

Is Shallan bonded to one or more of the cryptics? She addresses more than one and although only one answers there always seems to be more than that present when she becomes aware of them, is the one answering acting as the spokesperson for the group or for itself?

[Shardlet]

It is unclear.  The cryptics are...cryptic.  I suspect we'll get a much better picture of them come March.

[Aether]

Challenge accepted let me try.

 

1- The Shin don't use metal that was mined.

2- They allways tell the true, (see that trading exchange was a example).

3- The Shin have a pretty cool fight style that focus in grab maneuvers

 

1- If they don't mine how they obtain metal to supply a whole society? Well, the symbol head spreens(cryptics) are sprens associated with soulcasting.

2- They Allwayssssssssss, tell the true =) Do the math  the cryptics bond when strong trues are told

3- Why have a figthing style that focus in grab maneuvers? Well that is handy when you need touch something to soulcast. (Jasnah ligthning trick use to much stormlight and, I believe, is something unique to her order) 

 

 

Just saying =)

 

And one upvote to Bloodfalcon for the mental exercise challenge =)

Kudos for taking the challenge, but I'm not sure this is very accurate information.

 

It is correct that they do not (or at least prefer not to) use mined from stone, but prefer to use metal that was Soulcast from offals. They do not seem able to do this themselves, however, since Thresh (the Shin from the interlude) clearly has to trade with a foreigner to get it.

 

And we have no indication that they always tells the truth, but merely that they respect people that are honest. They might generally prefer to always or at least mostly tell the truth, but it seems ludicrous to extrapolate a culture wide inability to tell a lie from the Rysn-chapter.

 

And as other people have already indicated, there are no Highstorms in Shinovar, because the area is shielded by an high and enclosing mountain range (the Misted Mountains, lol). They might of course get Stormlight from outside of the area, but then there is the fact that Rysn do not see Spren anywhere - it does indeed seem like there are no Spren at all in Shinovar.

 

So I think we can quite assuredly debunk the theory that they bond with Cryptics or any other type of Spren (at least Shin confined to Shinovar), and thus the theory that Szeth's place as a Truthless results from a failed bonding process with this (or any) type of Spren.

[Natans]

Kudos for taking the challenge, but I'm not sure this is very accurate information.

 

It is correct that they do not (or at least prefer not to) use mined from stone, but prefer to use metal that was Soulcast from offals. They do not seem able to do this themselves, however, since Thresh (the Shin from the interlude) clearly has to trade with a foreigner to get it.

 

And we have no indication that they always tells the truth, but merely that they respect people that are honest. They might generally prefer to always or at least mostly tell the truth, but it seems ludicrous to extrapolate a culture wide inability to tell a lie from the Rysn-chapter.

 

And as other people have already indicated, there are no Highstorms in Shinovar, because the area is shielded by an high and enclosing mountain range (the Misted Mountains, lol). They might of course get Stormlight from outside of the area, but then there is the fact that Rysn do not see Spren anywhere - it does indeed seem like there are no Spren at all in Shinovar.

 

So I think we can quite assuredly debunk the theory that they bond with Cryptics or any other type of Spren (at least Shin confined to Shinovar), and thus the theory that Szeth's place as a Truthless results from a failed bonding process with this (or any) type of Spren.

 

I was joking around when I posted this =)

 

But, Szeth, the mercant, the term truthless be reserved to the most horrible kind of person, all indicate that, at least, be honest is the principal focus in their society, as in the Alenthi be "honorable" take a major role in their culture( the alenthi codes of war, the fact that all lighteyes are expected to be honorable, etc.)

 

Another thing being HONEST are a virtue associeted with one of the orders that can soulcast. The title the one that add is suspicius to me. Why the one that add? Maybe a reference to the obvius nature of the soulcaster, and before every one begin, I'm not saying that today they can soulcast, but, is possible that the term originate from there (Sanderson love play with the theme of decline of knowledge)

 

 

I have a pet theory that which one of the ten silver kingdom are the emboidement of one divine aspect. Alenthi = Honor, Shinovar = Honest, Reshi = Wise, careful, etc. But I'm waiting to futher information that prove my point, because I think that i passed my limit of "no fundamented theories"  this year.

 

Just Saying;)

Edited November 25, 2013 by Natans

[Aether]

Another thing being HONEST are a virtue associeted with one of the orders that can soulcast. The title the one that add is suspicius to me. Why the one that add? Maybe a reference to the obvius nature of the soulcaster, and before every one begin, I'm not saying that today they can soulcast, but, is possible that the term originate from there (Sanderson love play with the theme of decline of knowledge)

 

Actually, Soulcasting has nothing to do with adding, but with changing. "To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange". From Fullmetal Alchemist, but works here too, since Soulcasting is about changing a quantity of something of something into something else, but of equal mass (though not necessarily equal volume). Sanderson do like to play with concepts, but I doubt he would twist meanings like what you have to do to derive "he who adds" from Soulcasting.

 

I have a pet theory that which one of the ten silver kingdom are the emboidement of one divine aspect. Alenthi = Honor, Shinovar = Honest, Reshi = Wise, careful, etc. But I'm waiting to futher information that prove my point, because I think that i passed my limit of "no fundamented theories"  this year.

Now, this is an interesting thought, especially since the Silver Kingdoms were supposed to be set up in a way that gave different responsibilities of governing to different kingdoms. The old Alethela, for example, was the one responsible for defending the Realm, and others would be responsible for courts of law, scholarship, trade (or something) etc.

 

Alethela would be "[Leading, ]Protecting" in your scenario, btw, not "Honour". They would all be different aspects of Honour. Shinkaknish (the equivalent of Shinovar during the Silver Kingdoms Epoch) could very well have been representing "[Creative, ]Honest[y]", but it is a bit contrived to attribute Soulcasting to the farmers of Shinovar (as stated above) because of this.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether

[Natans]

Actually, Soulcasting has nothing to do with adding, but with changing. "To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange". From Fullmetal Alchemist, but works here too, since Soulcasting is about changing a quantity of something of something into something else, but of equal mass (though not necessarily equal volume). Sanderson do like to play with concepts, but I doubt he would twist meanings like what you have to do to derive "he who adds" from Soulcasting.

 

 

Now, this is an interesting thought, especially since the Silver Kingdoms were supposed to be set up in a way that gave different responsibilities of governing to different kingdoms. The old Alethela, for example, was the one responsible for defending the Realm, and others would be responsible for courts of law, scholarship, trade (or something) etc.

 

Alethela would be "[Leading, ]Protecting" in your scenario, btw, not "Honour". They would all be different aspects of Honour. Shinkaknish (the equivalent of Shinovar during the Silver Kingdoms Epoch) could very well have been representing "[Creative, ]Honest[y]", but it is a bit contrived to attribute Soulcasting to the farmers of Shinovar (as stated above) because of this.

 

I know, I wasn't trying to defend a theory(yet), Jez order is associated with Leading, Protecting, and associated the honor spren. Every order was multiple aspects, Leading and protecting are their virtues. Honor is stonglly associated with this order, so like I said I'm waiting to see what piece fit in the frame, for now only a idle thought =)

 

Soulcast change, but to a common person, change something out of thin air, looks very close to add something out of nothing. Like i said this could be a case of decline of knowledge, I don't know yet after I read WOR how knows maybe I will have enough data =)

 

And one upvote for the Fullmetal reference, boy a like this one.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Natans

[Aether]

Soulcast change, but to a common person, change something out of thin air, looks very close to add something out of nothing. Like i said this could be a case of decline of knowledge, I don't know yet after a ready WOR how knows maybe I will have enough data =)

I might be more inclined to find it plausible presented as this. I still have my doubts, though. Something is going on in Shinovar - of that I am sure - but I don't think it is quite so straightforward for the various reasons presented above,

 

And one upvote for the Fullmetal reference, boy a like this one.

And an upvote for the fellow FMA fan too!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Aether

[Swimmingly]

Actually, Soulcasting has nothing to do with adding, but with changing. "To obtain something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange". From Fullmetal Alchemist, but works here too, since Soulcasting is about changing a quantity of something of something into something else, but of equal mass (though not necessarily equal volume). Sanderson do like to play with concepts, but I doubt he would twist meanings like what you have to do to derive "he who adds" from Soulcasting.

 

 

Now, this is an interesting thought, especially since the Silver Kingdoms were supposed to be set up in a way that gave different responsibilities of governing to different kingdoms. The old Alethela, for example, was the one responsible for defending the Realm, and others would be responsible for courts of law, scholarship, trade (or something) etc.

 

Alethela would be "[Leading, ]Protecting" in your scenario, btw, not "Honour". They would all be different aspects of Honour. Shinkaknish (the equivalent of Shinovar during the Silver Kingdoms Epoch) could very well have been representing "[Creative, ]Honest[y]", but it is a bit contrived to attribute Soulcasting to the farmers of Shinovar (as stated above) because of this.

What about the Growth surge? Besides, a culture based around the idea of "adding" by using a neutral-output power would actually work - the mass has to remain the same, but the value doesn't. Turn the air into food to feed hungry children, and that seems pretty close to "adding" to me. Perhaps the nature of the culture is that the idea of truly creating more than you take to create it with is some sort of unreachable ideal, kind of like the way it is literally impossible to live without sin in Christianity - but people try anyway.

[Aether]

What about the Growth surge? Besides, a culture based around the idea of "adding" by using a neutral-output power would actually work - the mass has to remain the same, but the value doesn't. Turn the air into food to feed hungry children, and that seems pretty close to "adding" to me. Perhaps the nature of the culture is that the idea of truly creating more than you take to create it with is some sort of unreachable ideal, kind of like the way it is literally impossible to live without sin in Christianity - but people try anyway.

I didn't think of the Growth surge (though I don't think the "[Loving, ]Healing" would fit Shinovar within Natans' hypothesis. And good points on "adding". But there is still the problem of the lack of Highstorms in Shinovar (even though I myself have argued that this might at best only present a logistical challenge).

[Gloom]

I'm more inclined to believe that the Herald Shalash spent an inordinate amount of time in Shinovar and helped shape their culture after the fall of the Silver Kingdoms. If the Shin are protecting the Honorblades, then something along these lines would be necessary. The Shin do not follow Vorinism, so it's possible that they know a different version of history than the rest of the world. I'm not inclines to believe that the Shin had access to Surgebinders while the entire rest of the world went without. Especially since the Shin lands appear to be barren of investiture.

[Aether]

Just to clarify my position ons this, I do not really support the hypotheses I'm defending here, just  pointing out the strengths, weaknesses and possible reasoning behind them. I'd be more inclined to actually support an idea akin to what Gloom suggests in the previous post.

 

But Gloom, you sure? It seems reasonable to suggest that there might not have been any Surgebinders anywhere prior to Gavilar's exploration of the Shattered Plains, but no Investiture at all?

[name_here]

While Soulcasting does seem to obey Equivalent Exchange, it seems to be a bit fuzzy about what gets conserved. The initial Soulcasting with the stone block seemed to conserve mass, although it feels like the smoke explosion should maybe have been more dramatic. Then again, it's not gaseous, so I guess it might not expand so rapidly. But Jasnah later Soulcast a human into a crystal statue of equal volume, and there's a number of instances of things that were Soulcast from other things and retained some pretty fine details (e.g. Soulcast stone preserving wood grain) which seems to indicate it's the same exact shape as the original. Also, the metal lumps being traded were Soulcast from some form of presumably non-metallic garbage, and metal is pretty dense, so one would expect the results to be very small. It could be that solid-solid conserves volume.

 

Though, alternately, it could be that the crystal is roughly as dense as a human possibly on account of containing hollows, and the other instances cheat in the grand tradition of everything dodging conservation laws by stealing mass from somewhere else. Or maybe there's a fudge factor in the exchange and the result mass must be within one order of magnitude of the original mass, which would allow solid-solid transformations to retain the original volume in most cases but trans-phase transformations would not. Now, Shallan apparently does believe mass is conserved, but there's a bunch of secrecy surrounding Soulcasters, so she might just be wrong.

 

Oh, and before anyone suggests it, mass-energy equivalence is not the answer. The coefficent for kg-joule conversions is 8.99e16 J/kg; for reference the estimated total electrical use for the entire earth in 2008 was 5.18e20 joules, which would be several hundred kilograms. Nuclear weapons convert a couple grams to energy. If mass is being created or destroyed the source must be the Shard powering the system, not locally available energy.

 

 

But Gloom, you sure? It seems reasonable to suggest that there might not have been any Surgebinders anywhere prior to Gavilar's exploration of the Shattered Plains, but no Investiture at all?

No Highstorms in Shinovar, no Stormlight unless they get it from the border.

Edited November 26, 2013 by name_here

[Aether]

No Highstorms in Shinovar, no Stormlight unless they get it from the border.

Highstorms are presumably not the only form of Investiture on Roshar.

[Gloom]

I did say that they appear to be barren of investiture. I didn't say they were completely barren of investiture. I based my statement on the lack of highstorms and spren. There may be trace investiture in Shinovar, and there may be invested items in Shinovar, but it appears that Shinovar lacks stormlight, which is usually required for Surgebinders, Soulcasters, and soulcasting.

[Ren]

SUhm, so I've seen a lot of theories around here about Szeth's reason of becoming a Truthless and later his banishment from Shinovar.

Have you ever thought about that he might be Truthless, because he "accidentally" (or not) inhaled Stormlight from some source (like infused gems or something).

Isn't Stormlight sacred for Shin people?
 

 

 

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Szeth isn't actually in an order of Knights Radiant. Something different is happening with Szeth that people have already begun to guess. And Kaladin isn't yet a Knight Radiant, but the powers he uses are those of the Windrunners, one of the orders of the Knights Radiant. Szeth is using the same power set. So your phrasing is accurate to that extent.

Also, another theory.

 

 

 

Brandon Sanderson (Goodreads)

Someone who is not himself or herself a Herald can indeed use one of the Honorblades.

There's another thread about Shin warriors wielding Shardblades, which I like. By the same logic, what is worse than picking up a Shardbalde? Picking up a Honorblade.

Also, I think it was hinted that Shin people (or at least the Stone Shamans) have a great deal of knowledge about the Voidbringers/Knight Radiants and stuff from the past. And by the same logic I think they are preparing for the final desonation... :D

[Aether]

I think it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that all he did was inhale some Stormlight. Also, this wouldn't fit in with what most people assume is the origin of his powers - his presumed Honourblade (not that that disproves your theory by itself).

[Bramble Thorn]

I did say that they appear to be barren of investiture. I didn't say they were completely barren of investiture. I based my statement on the lack of highstorms and spren. There may be trace investiture in Shinovar, and there may be invested items in Shinovar, but it appears that Shinovar lacks stormlight, which is usually required for Surgebinders, Soulcasters, and soulcasting.

 

About the lack of Spren in Shin, I am not so sure. In the quite we have, Szeths comments on their disrespect of stone (walking all over it), and stormlight (using it for such mundane purposes as a everyday torch substitute), AND spren (how everyone just ignores them when surrounded by them)

 

I think they have access to both stormlight and spren in Shinovar, and they have significance there, likely because they are so rare*. And are probably of religious/spiritual import, and feature in ceremonies performed by the Stone Shamans.

 

From the Steelhunt

Lift's spren says its native home is on the cognitive plane. Also Lift can create stormlight from food because the nightwatcher made her exist partially on the cognitive plane. Incidentely this means Stormlight likely DOES NOT equal investiture, unless you argue that the energy stored in fat cells on the physical realm is investiture. It is either a power source from the cognitive, and bled into the physical that can power the investiture (i.e. surge bindings) and/or it it a metaphysic key, The same way the metal mistborn to use allomancy is not investiture or a power source.

 

But the fact that both spren and stormlight both have a cognitive connection could mean that,,,

 

The stormlight I theorize the shamans use for their ceremonies could allow spren to be seen during them.

 

* There could be rare places near the boarder in Shinovar where the storms might get through partially due to a break in the mountains. Or they could just send up people into the mountaintops before the storms get broken up to charge gems. (Which they do not use for trading, and may also be sacred)

[Vestis Etoris Prime Targ]

Hi, just putting my two bits into the theorizing. I believe that Szeth being truthless has something to do with him having a Shardblade of his own. 

 

In WoK, we see Kaladin and Syl both express revulsion for the Shardblades. Syl even seems glad that Kaladin chose not to take the shardblade which was due to him (which is supposed to be a major turning point for his character). My theory is that Shardblades somehow corrupt a Windrunner's connection with Honor. Hence Windrunners who remain without shardblades are more truthful(?) than others.

 

From WoK we also know that Szeth, and by extension the whole of Shin society, knows the secrets of wind-running. Probably as a society they have a coming-of-age ceremony where young potentials are asked to pass some kind of test to see if they are worthy of being true(?) Windrunners. Part of this test would probably involve a choice to pick up a Shardblade or not. Szeth fails this test and hence gains his status as Truthless. As a consequence he also doesn't have an honorspren bonding to him, marking him as a false(?) Windrunner.

 

Now just to extend this theory some more, it also seems likely that the so-called "Honorblades" are part of the corruption. Probably the Oathpact called upon the Knight Radiants to bear these horrific "Honorblades" and kill with them in order to ensure the survival of their world. However in between the desolations they have to go back and experience all the pain that the victims of the Honorblades went through. That is part of the price they have to pay in order to use something as dangerous and horrific as "Honorblades" to enforce the will of Honor. Possibly Honor himself never intended the use of blades to enforce his will. This is a result of the breaking of honor by Odium on this world.

 

Now of course all of the above could be a really dumb conspiracy theory, but I think what Brandon is leading upto is a critique of using weapons as a means of enforcing the intentions of something so pure as Honor. That would be a really great way for Odium to break him. But yeah I'm pretty new so if this seems to be dumb, then please ignore it. Thanks.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Vestis Etoris Prime Targ

[Swimmingly]

Hi, just putting my two bits into the theorizing. I believe that Szeth being truthless has something to do with him having a Shardblade of his own. 

 

In WoK, we see Kaladin and Syl both express revulsion for the Shardblades. Syl even seems glad that Kaladin chose not to take the shardblade which was due to him (which is supposed to be a major turning point for his character). My theory is that Shardblades somehow corrupt a Windrunner's connection with Honor. Hence Windrunners who remain without shardblades are more truthful(?) than others.

 

From WoK we also know that Szeth, and by extension the whole of Shin society, knows the secrets of wind-running. Probably as a society they have a coming-of-age ceremony where young potentials are asked to pass some kind of test to see if they are worthy of being true(?) Windrunners. Part of this test would probably involve a choice to pick up a Shardblade or not. Szeth fails this test and hence gains his status as Truthless. As a consequence he also doesn't have an honorspren bonding to him, marking him as a false(?) Windrunner.

 

Now just to extend this theory some more, it also seems likely that the so-called "Honorblades" are part of the corruption. Probably the Oathpact called upon the Knight Radiants to bear these horrific "Honorblades" and kill with them in order to ensure the survival of their world. However in between the desolations they have to go back and experience all the pain that the victims of the Honorblades went through. That is part of the price they have to pay in order to use something as dangerous and horrific as "Honorblades" to enforce the will of Honor. Possibly Honor himself never intended the use of blades to enforce his will. This is a result of the breaking of honor by Odium on this world.

 

Now of course all of the above could be a really dumb conspiracy theory, but I think what Brandon is leading upto is a critique of using weapons as a means of enforcing the intentions of something so pure as Honor. That would be a really great way for Odium to break him. But yeah I'm pretty new so if this seems to be dumb, then please ignore it. Thanks.

I agree with a lot of this, except the "by extension, all of shin society" bit. Szeth is incredibly different from the rest of Shin society - there's no knowing where he got his abilities and Blade (a heck of a lot of theorizing though)

[Aether]

Hi, just putting my two bits into the theorizing. I believe that Szeth being truthless has something to do with him having a Shardblade of his own. 

 

In WoK, we see Kaladin and Syl both express revulsion for the Shardblades. Syl even seems glad that Kaladin chose not to take the shardblade which was due to him (which is supposed to be a major turning point for his character). My theory is that Shardblades somehow corrupt a Windrunner's connection with Honor. Hence Windrunners who remain without shardblades are more truthful(?) than others.

 

From WoK we also know that Szeth, and by extension the whole of Shin society, knows the secrets of wind-running. Probably as a society they have a coming-of-age ceremony where young potentials are asked to pass some kind of test to see if they are worthy of being true(?) Windrunners. Part of this test would probably involve a choice to pick up a Shardblade or not. Szeth fails this test and hence gains his status as Truthless. As a consequence he also doesn't have an honorspren bonding to him, marking him as a false(?) Windrunner.

 

Now just to extend this theory some more, it also seems likely that the so-called "Honorblades" are part of the corruption. Probably the Oathpact called upon the Knight Radiants to bear these horrific "Honorblades" and kill with them in order to ensure the survival of their world. However in between the desolations they have to go back and experience all the pain that the victims of the Honorblades went through. That is part of the price they have to pay in order to use something as dangerous and horrific as "Honorblades" to enforce the will of Honor. Possibly Honor himself never intended the use of blades to enforce his will. This is a result of the breaking of honor by Odium on this world.

 

Now of course all of the above could be a really dumb conspiracy theory, but I think what Brandon is leading upto is a critique of using weapons as a means of enforcing the intentions of something so pure as Honor. That would be a really great way for Odium to break him. But yeah I'm pretty new so if this seems to be dumb, then please ignore it. Thanks.

I think you've fallen into the trap of postulating a bit much here. First of all, we do not know that all of the Shin know of Szeth's abilities, and while we do not know how Szeth became a Truthless, it is a rather bold to claim that it was because he failed to not pick up his Shardblade. In fact, it seems to have more to do with what he knows or claims than what he has done. There is a quote in the Prologue about the Voidbringers, where he claims that "his punishment demanded that they [did not exist]" while his "honour demanded that they did".

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum! And congratulations (and up-vote) on your first post! Now, do not let my refutation of your hypothesis discourage you. Keep going strong!

[Vestis Etoris Prime Targ]

I agree with a lot of this, except the "by extension, all of shin society" bit. Szeth is incredibly different from the rest of Shin society - there's no knowing where he got his abilities and Blade (a heck of a lot of theorizing though)

 

 

I think you've fallen into the trap of postulating a bit much here. First of all, we do not know that all of the Shin know of Szeth's abilities, and while we do not know how Szeth became a Truthless, it is a rather bold to claim that it was because he failed to not pick up his Shardblade. In fact, it seems to have more to do with what he knows or claims than what he has done. There is a quote in the Prologue about the Voidbringers, where he claims that "his punishment demanded that they [did not exist]" while his "honour demanded that they did".

 

Anyway, welcome to the forum! And congratulations (and up-vote) on your first post! Now, do not let my refutation of your hypothesis discourage you. Keep going strong!

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for the welcome!! I appreciate that. I know the theory is a (very) long shot. It's just that it seemed to fit everything I've read till now. 

 

When I read about Szeth and the fact that Shin stone shamans are responsible for getting the shardblade back after his death, I thought that they must be the keepers of this particular blade.  

 

And then I thought about that voidbringer quote "where he claims that "his punishment demanded that they [did not exist]" while his "honour demanded that they did"." 

 

His punishment is of course his excommunication from Shin society. This involves him owning a shardblade and being thrown out to serve the world (or at least whoever holds his oathstone). Now I assume that the punishment is a result of Szeth losing honour and, from the quote above, it seems if the voidbringers exist then his honour remains intact.

 

So it seems likely that Szeth personally believes in the existence of Voidbringers. However this runs counter to the general belief of the Shin. They don't believe in Voidbringers and hence hold Shardblades to be horrific instruments which need not exist (since no Voidbringers = No requirement for Shardblade). They are happy to bond with spren and avoid owning shardblades. Szeth on the other hand believes shardblades are a necessary evil in that they will be eventually needed to fight the voidbringers. So he chooses them over the Nahel bond.       

 

Hence his personal belief leads him to this punishment (can this be called religious persecution?). So the line, "His punishment demanded that Voidbringers did not exist, but his honour demanded that they did." If the voidbringers did not exist then his punishment was correct since he chose a Shardblade over the Nahel bond. But if voidbringers did exist then his honour remains intact.   

 

Of course, extrapolating such a scenario using just two pieces of information is quite a stretch. I suppose it will be best to wait for WoR to see how Szeth's story pans out. 

[Aether]

Imagine how fun it would be if it turned out you're right

 

But yeah, it is usually better to find evidence to support one's hypothesis, Unless you preface it by calling it wild speculation. Which is bloody fun!

[Bloodfalcon]

Imagine how fun it would be if it turned out you're right

 

But yeah, it is usually better to find evidence to support one's hypothesis, Unless you preface it by calling it wild speculation. Which is bloody fun!

AKA Theorizing.

[Aether]

AKA Theorizing.

I do not agree. Rampant theorizing, maybe, but most of us generally back up our hypothesis with quite firm evidence, or at least educated guessing and extrapolation. Some of us will from time to time see two and two and suggest that might make 42 because of some hitherto unknown and unsuspected part of the equation, but it's usually at least partially - if incompletely - backed up by evidence and/or conjecture.

[Bloodfalcon]

I do not agree. Rampant theorizing, maybe, but most of us generally back up our hypothesis with quite firm evidence, or at least educated guessing and extrapolation. Some of us will from time to time see two and two and suggest that might make 42 because of some hitherto unknown and unsuspected part of the equation, but it's usually at least partially - if incompletely - backed up by evidence and/or conjecture.

But that's not the only method for theorizing. Theorizing is finding an explanation to a fact or an event. That's it. There is no need for convincing evidence when you use the fundamental definition of the word. You don't have to give the topic or post any credibility in your mind, but don't tell people how they have to speculate when they are just speculating. Forum rules don't demand us to convince anyone.