Shardlet Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Well, it is hard to say since we don't know how the ancient fabrials worked. Even so, I only get the impression that the gems crack when a LARGE amount of stormlight is used in a single burst (like Jasnah soulcasting the large boulder). I don't see any evidence yet for universal cracking when the light runs out. As to a storage fabrial, I would say, sure why not. But, since we have not yet seen or heard of the existence of such a thing, I have a hard time thinking that it is more likely than a fabrial that can only use regrowth in accordance with how much stormlight the gem holds. Edited November 21, 2013 by Shardlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 You are right, it is gross speculation. It just sounded weird to me to be like "I need to save the regrowth." Same way it would sound weird to say "I need to save the soulcast." I might just be hung up on the sound of the word, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 One would probably say, "I need to save the soulcasting." 'Souldcast' would be the verb form whereas 'soulcasting' is used as a noun form as well as a gerund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 The point still stands though... If the Regrowth construct was similar to a modern day Fabrial, wouldn't she have said that she needed to save the Stormlight? By saying she needed to preserve the Regrowth, it seems like it is the stored 'Surge application'. The best analogy I can come up with is that modern fabrials have the function hardwired in to them. The Starfalls chapter Regrowth thingy seems more like software. That is, the function is embedded within the stored medium rather than the construct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 The Radiant was a member of the Stonewards which is order 9, growth is shared between Orders 4/5. We also know that there are fabrials that can mimic all the radiant abilites so occam's razor would say it was a fabrial. How do we know she is a Stoneward? You are right, it is gross speculation. It just sounded weird to me to be like "I need to save the regrowth." Same way it would sound weird to say "I need to save the soulcast." I might just be hung up on the sound of the word, though. Yeah, I had assumed that it meant "save the stormlight" and the awkward wording was just Brandon's way of telling us "this is the word for healing on this world". It could just be how they talk to dumb locals; when I find myself in the position to describe something very techincal I did at work to someone I consider a peasant, I tend to say things that are easier to understand and not at all true. Sidenote, Lyft's chapter is inconclusive but strongly suggests that Regrowth takes a LOT of Stormlight; whether it was coming from a fabrial or from the Radiant, she could have meant that she'd run out. Hence why I think the device she used was more a battery for Stormlight than anything else. Leading to a few questions, actually... Jasnah's fabrial, despite appearances, isn't entirely for show. At a minimum, it holds her "flavors" of Stormlight. Kaladin seems to be able to absorb any gem's stormlight for the same effect, while Jasnah has never been shown to absorb stormlight, and must match the appropriate gem to what she wants to soulcast. Can Jasnah inhale stormlight? If she does, does the source gem still affect what she can soulcast? Can Lyft metabolize specific flavors of Stormlight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Stormlight is stormlight... I do not think it comes in different types. I think there is WoB that says that the need for specific gem types is a quirk of soulcasting and not relevant to the other types of surgebinding. In lifts case, presumably she could infuse from any sphere / gem (Darkness certainly seems to think so) but she has never learned how as it would seen unnecessary for her. As far as the Starfalls Radiant goes: I do not see how the Regrowth thingy can be simply a battery as: 1) The Stonwards do not have access to the growth surge, therefore cannot perform regrowth. 2) Why have a special frame for two large gems? Why not a pouch? The Fabrial is the more likely explanation here but I think that (like ancient soulcasters) they operate differently to the modern day ones. I think the heart of it that I just cannot see the KR as thinking that trapping a spren is terribly honourable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Madrand: Excellent analogy! Exactly what I was trying to explain, thank you. Upvote for you! I also think it is interesting that the device was described as two gems (topaz and heliodor) entwined together. This sounds more like a natural crystal formation than the cut stones we are used to seeing. The size is also impressive...each as big as her hand? Isn't that like two entire gem hearts? Maybe that is what it is...a strange double gem heart? I don't see how else gems could become entwined... Darnam: I don't think we have it confirmed, but it has been theorized based on the amber colored glow of her armour, linking her with topaz, and thus the 9th order, which we think is the stonewards (again, not confirmed I don't think, but probable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ah. Well, if on one hand we have 'color of armor' and on the other we have 'type of magic she uses' I'm going to maintain my healthy skepticism that she might be and Edgedancer or whatever Ym was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ah. Well, if on one hand we have 'color of armor' and on the other we have 'type of magic she uses' I'm going to maintain my healthy skepticism that she might be and Edgedancer or whatever Ym was. But it isn't "the color of armor" it is the color the armor glows there is a difference. In the Day of Recreance vision we see members of two orders abandon their shards, the Windrunners and the Stonewards, and their armor (before they abandon it) glows blue and amber respectively, the colors of their associated gems (sapphire and topaz). I don't think it would be possible for a radiant to make their order glow another orders color and I would have issues if they could. If she were an Edgedancer or a member of Ym's order her armor should glow green or white but definitely not amber. Also "the type of magic she uses" is obviously not an inherent ability. She requires the contraption (which is almost certainly a fabrial though some disagree) while Ym/Lift just require stormlight. You are free to keep to your "healthy skepticism" that she isn't a Stoneward but I'm more inclined to go with the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Choose to believe what you wish, but please do so without the snide superiority. If you cherry pick your facts, deciding that one implication is proof while another is explained away with handwavium, that's fine, but then don't come back to me with "I guess I'll just be over here with all the evidence." You do have strong, but not absolute, evidence of your theory, but I've got evidence, too. I have no problem with your decision that your evidence is more compelling than mine, but it is rude of you to say that your is proof while mine is nonexistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Such things might be better discussed in private messages y'all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Choose to believe what you wish, but please do so without the snide superiority. If you cherry pick your facts, deciding that one implication is proof while another is explained away with handwavium, that's fine, but then don't come back to me with "I guess I'll just be over here with all the evidence." You do have strong, but not absolute, evidence of your theory, but I've got evidence, too. I have no problem with your decision that your evidence is more compelling than mine, but it is rude of you to say that your is proof while mine is nonexistant. I'm sorry, that last line seems to have been uncalled for but I was not trying to be rude. That said I do not see how I am "cherry picking" the facts. I laid out the facts a thought were relevant to the debate, what did I leave out? Such things might be better discussed in private messages y'all. This is probably for the best. Darnam if you wish to continue this conversation, send me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ah, I forgot about the recreance vision. Yes, we know the Stonewards and windrunners were there, and we know they were glowing blue and Amber. Occam's razor would suggest that the associated gem matches the color of the glow. Interestingly, I hadn't made the connection before now that we see windrunners and stonewards hanging out together twice. I had previously thought that the skybreakers and windrunners would hang together as the first responder type shock troops, but maybe not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted November 22, 2013 Report Share Posted November 22, 2013 Ah, I forgot about the recreance vision. Yes, we know the Stonewards and windrunners were there, and we know they were glowing blue and Amber. Occam's razor would suggest that the associated gem matches the color of the glow. Interestingly, I hadn't made the connection before now that we see windrunners and stonewards hanging out together twice. I had previously thought that the skybreakers and windrunners would hang together as the first responder type shock troops, but maybe not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 The other evidence we have is that she appears from nowhere, that is; she uses the travel surge known to be held by the stonewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) The other evidence we have is that she appears from nowhere, that is; she uses the travel surge known to be held by the stonewards. Actually, Stonewards don't have access to transportation. It's the eight Surge and shared by Elsecallers and the 8th order. Edited December 14, 2013 by cem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 It is generally assumed that the Stoneward from the Starfalls chapter used an ancient type of fabrial to appear so suddenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Well... I'll just calmly remove my foot from my mouth and remember to check my facts next time I say something with such confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Well... I'll just calmly remove my foot from my mouth and remember to check my facts next time I say something with such confidence Oh, don't beat yourself up. We all do that from time to time. Except Kurk. That dude's a machine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj26792 Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Oh, don't beat yourself up. We all do that from time to time. Except Kurk. That dude's a machine! You know I have a theory on that... I think he IS a machine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 You know I have a theory on that... I think he IS a machine. Whatever would give you that ide-ide-ide-idea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 Whatever would give you that ide-ide-ide-idea? OMG! QUICKLY NOW, GET BEHIND ME! Oh, Kurk, my friend? Listen closely: "This sentence is a lie". Phew! Close one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 OMG! QUICKLY NOW, GET BEHIND ME! Oh, Kurk, my friend? Listen closely: "This sentence is a lie". Phew! Close one! Uh...true. I'll go 'true'. Huh, that was easy. I'll be honest, I might have heard that one before, though; sort of cheating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) Uh...true. I'll go 'true'. Huh, that was easy. I'll be honest, I might have heard that one before, though; sort of cheating. It is a PARADOX, there IS no answer! Look, this place is going to blow up if I don't get into my body! . EDIT: ... wait, what now? Edited December 16, 2013 by Aether 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 I'll say false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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