Prediction: Szeth vs Kaladin.

[Guest Alaxel]

It's only a matter of time before Szeth and Kaladin throw down. Kaladin will almost certainly win...

...and will find himself with Szeth's Blade his for the taking.

If speculations are true and Szeth does indeed wield an Honorblade or, at least, a Radiantblade, rather than a regular Shardblade, then perhaps Syl will react favorably to that Blade and Kaladin will take it up.

Personally, I think that Blades likely have mulitple tiers of power with Shardblades on the bottom, Honorblades at the top, with Radiantblades somewhere in between.

So yeah, my final speculation is this: Kaladin kills Szeth, is encouraged by Syl to taking Szeth's Blade, and discovering that it's a Windrunner Radiantblade which ushers Kaladin further down the path of the Knights Radiant.

[Shardlet he/him]

How do you account for the creation of regular shardblades if they did not come from the KR?

[bartbug he/him]

Also, why would Kaladin win? Sure, we know that Kaladin is more powerful in the terms of how long he can keep Stormlight in, but Szeth knows a lot more about Windrunning, and, as you said, he has a Shardblade. I can't see how Kaladin could swing it his way in a straight on fight. If it does come down to that, I'm guessing some Adolin interference. It would be a nice parallel to how Kaladin saved him at the end of TWOK

[Natans he/him]

The fight will occur before or after Rock throw Kaladin of a cliff ?

 

=)

Edited October 15, 2013 by Natans

[Stormfather]

I don't think Kaladin is going to take a shardblade.  I wish I could give a reference to this, but in an Idaho Falls signing before I found 17th Shard, right after WoK came out I asked Brandon if there are other Shard weapons besides just blades and he said yes.  I think Kaladin is going to always turn down shard blades until a shard spear is found.

 

I could see him disarming Szeth though.

[Gloom he/him]

I believe that they will fight, and I believe that Kaladin will successfully defend Dalinar. I don't think Szeths' story is finished, nor do I think BS will allow Szeth to kill off Kaladin and Dalinar. I believe that Szeth will try to kill Dalinar and find himself forced into retreat. If the blade Szeth carries is an Honorblade, I'm not sure it will go misty should Szeth be disarmed since it's technically on loan. I'm also not convinced that the blade will remain captured for long if it is an Honorblade because it should still maintain its link to the Herald it belongs to, whom most of us believe to be Jezrien.

 

Should Szeth be disarmed, and find that Dalinar is surrounded by Surgebinders and Shardbearers, he may return to Kharbranth and report his failure. I think it's more likely that he will fight until captured or killed though. Szeth almost seems to crave the release that death would grant him...provided that he isn't reanimated and turned into a Voidbringer of course.

 

I also find it unlikely that Kaladin will claim the blade Szeth carries. I would find it amusing if he turned another one down and was honored for it instead of punished this time.

 

Edit: If Szeth is captured, I could see him admitting to having hidden the Sphere and offing to take someone to go get it before they bring him to justice for his crimes.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Gloom

[The Count he/him]

I just cannot get behind the theory that Szeth carries an Honorblade...

 

WoB says we have seen 3 types, to me that is:

 

- Honorblades (Prologue)

- Shardblades (KR and modern day)

- Szethblade (different somehow)

 

The 'Szeth carries an honorblade' theory is predicated on the notion that the KR blades (seen in the visions) are different from the ones carried in modern day Roshar.

 

I find this difficult to believe since the only concrete origin of modern shardblades we know of are those left at Feverstone Keep (i.e KR blades).

 

I think that once we know more about how blades are formed, we will be able to answer this.

 

Regarding a showdown, I think this is a set piece that Branson has been building toward deliberately. I am also sure, however, that the resolution will not be what we expect (this is Brandon after all!)

 

Consider this however. Szeths orders are to be very public about his assasinations. Therefore it is likely that Dalinars famaily and bodyguards will have a chance to defend him.

 

Family and bodyguards inlcude:

 

Kaladin (Windrunner)

Jasnah (KR in training)

Shallan (KR in training)

Adolin (Shardbearer & best duelist in Alethkar)

Navani (Artifabrian - I bet she has some tricks up her safepouch!)

The Bridgemen (fiercely loyal potential Radiants in traning)

 

All in all, I do not think the odds are in Szeths favour.

 

Edited to remove some spoilers

Edited October 16, 2013 by MadRand

[Crysanja]

i dont think Sazeth will retreat.

because what he realy wants it so die, but he cant commit suicide.

so he can only die in combat.

 

i guess they will capture Sazeth, and then things can happen.

 

 

maybe some of thouse KR idomes might stop him.

[Oudeis he/him]

I just cannot get behind the theory that Szeth carries an Honorblade...

 

WoB says we have seen 3 types, to me that is:

 

- Honorblades (Prologue)

- Shardblades (KR and modern day)

- Szethblade (different somehow)

 

The 'Szeth carries an honorblade' theory is predicated on the notion that the KR blades (seen in the visions) are different from the ones carried in modern day Roshar.

 

Not necessarily. You're assuming that every single Shardblade we've seen anyone bear is nothing more than that.

 

I think you're right, though I'm not as certain as you are. You and Shardlet seem utterly convinced tha Radiantblades and modern Shardblades absolutely have to be the same thing. I think that's likely, but far from a foregone conclusion.

 

We've seen a lot of Shardblades get used in the modern era. Some of them for only short periods of time. I think it would be very Sanderson-y if one of those blades, one we assume was nothing more interesting than just a Shardblade, turned out to be something special.

 

One more theory that's just occurred to me. What if, after thousands of years, the Blades are the same ones, but they've changed? Maybe something happened to them when Honor Splintered. Maybe something changed by being handled by non-Radiants for thousands of  years. Maybe the Hierocracy, or its fall, included a global event that changed Shardblades (or maybe the event that changed them was lost to history during the Hierocracy). So physically, the Shardblades wielded today are the same ones from the past, but like radioactive decay they have transformed into something fundamentally different.

[Gloom he/him]

Sanderson has stated more than once that perception can change how magic behaves. It's possible that how Shards are perceived has altered their function. Enough cognitive pressure on the investiture might be capable of altering it over an extended period of time. Alternately, the rejection of the Shards by the KR may have altered the investiture in the Shards. Just a thought.

[Arran]

I'm not so sure as OP that Kaladin will win, but I'm confident that Szeth won't win, if only because if he won that would mean the likely deaths of Kaladin and Dalinar - and I can't see that happening in just the second book of the series. My guess is that Kaladin will barely manage to hold off Szeth - and later try to replicate what Szeth does during the fight - until others, Adolin, Jasnah and/or Shallan, come along and force Szeth to retreat. Also, I think Szeth will have  an unpleasant surprise when Kaladin, whose Stormlight-absorbing and Stormlight-holding capacities are already quite high, drains a lot of Szeth's "magical fuel" early in the fight to power himself up, thus hastening Szeth's defeat. Some might think that Szeth won't retreat because he has a death wish, but I think his desire to perform his duty will outweigh his desire for death.

[Oudeis he/him]

Some might think that Szeth won't retreat because he has a death wish, but I think his desire to perform his duty will outweigh his desire for death.

 

Interesting but... what is his duty? Kill Dalinar. Unless I'm mistaken, Taravigan (prolly spelt that wrong, too tired to look it up) didn't qualify that. He didn't say "kill Dalinar if you can" or "try to kill Dalinar and give up and come back if you'll clearly fail". I think in this case, unless King T gave him some order we haven't seen, his death wish and his duty are in alignment.

[darkanimereal1]

I just cannot get behind the theory that Szeth carries an Honorblade...

 

WoB says we have seen 3 types, to me that is:

 

- Honorblades (Prologue)

- Shardblades (KR and modern day)

- Szethblade (different somehow)

 

The 'Szeth carries an honorblade' theory is predicated on the notion that the KR blades (seen in the visions) are different from the ones carried in modern day Roshar.

 

I find this difficult to believe since the only concrete origin of modern shardblades we know of are those left at Feverstone Keep (i.e KR blades).

 

I think that once we know more about how blades are formed, we will be able to answer this.

 

Regarding a showdown, I think this is a set piece that Branson has been building toward deliberately. I am also sure, however, that the resolution will not be what we expect (this is Brandon after all!)

 

Consider this however. Szeths orders are to be very public about his assasinations. Therefore it is likely that Dalinars famaily and bodyguards will have a chance to defend him.

 

Family and bodyguards inlcude:

 

Kaladin (Windrunner)

Jasnah (KR in training)

Shallan (KR in training)

Adolin (Shardbearer & best duelist in Alethkar)

Navani (Artifabrian - I bet she has some tricks up her safepouch!)

The Bridgemen (fiercely loyal potential Radiants in traning)

 

All in all, I do not think the odds are in Szeths favour.

 

Edited to remove some spoilers

 

Okay, before I forget to mention this, I found both of these really funny:

 

Branson ... A new nickname based on a mash up of "Brandon" and "Sanderson?" Hee hee, 

 

Also, "I bet she has some tricks up her safepouch!"? Pure gold.

 

Anyway, I don't think Szeth's shardblade is good for Kaladin, if that makes sense. I could get behind the idea that it's a regular KR blade, which I still think is corrupted (I'll discuss this below), but I really think it falls into the third category. This is because Szeth's different from Kaladin. This has probably been hashed and rehashed out a number of times (forgive me for not being up to date here, I'm only just getting the time to come back online and participate in the forums now that I'm done with school and am settled into a job), but Szeth is either of a different order than Kaladin, or of something entirely else. 

 

We don't know who, what, or where Szeth's spren is for Surgebinding, or if he even has one. There was no mention of tiny little spren holding things in place when he Surgebinds, like there are with Kaladin. Sanderson also made a comment somewhere (I can dig it up later if someone else doesn't know it off the top of their head) that Kaladin and Szeth are different. This could be as simple as being in different orders, or as big as them using different magic systems. The fact that we never hear about Spren from Szeth coupled with the fact that Kaladin is so much more powerful than Szeth seems to imply to me that there is more difference here than just between orders (although I could be taking this too far. For one, we're still not sure if Jasnah sees the Truthspren that Shallan and Elhokar see).

It's almost like Szeth's powers are a shadow of what Kaladin's are. Plus, we know that Kaladin is the first person on the way to becoming a KR. Szeth knows a lot about the magic, but that implies that he isn't becoming a KR.

 

 

Sanderson has stated more than once that perception can change how magic behaves. It's possible that how Shards are perceived has altered their function. Enough cognitive pressure on the investiture might be capable of altering it over an extended period of time. Alternately, the rejection of the Shards by the KR may have altered the investiture in the Shards. Just a thought.

 

Okay, this is where what I mentioned before comes in. I can definitely get behind the idea that the KR altered the investiture of the Shards when they abandoned them. When Syl sees Gavilar give up his shardblade to Sadeas, Syl tells Kaladin that it isn't good. She was also glad that Kaladin didn't take the shardblade from Amaram. I feel like the actions of the KR twisted the shardblades. Either that, or the people who have wielded them since have changed it, like you said. They're no longer used for protection, but for personal gain.

Really, it reminds me of Shadar Logoth from Wheel of Time. It became so twisted that it's now tainted and bad to touch.

 

I'm not so sure as OP that Kaladin will win, but I'm confident that Szeth won't win, if only because if he won that would mean the likely deaths of Kaladin and Dalinar - and I can't see that happening in just the second book of the series. My guess is that Kaladin will barely manage to hold off Szeth - and later try to replicate what Szeth does during the fight - until others, Adolin, Jasnah and/or Shallan, come along and force Szeth to retreat. Also, I think Szeth will have  an unpleasant surprise when Kaladin, whose Stormlight-absorbing and Stormlight-holding capacities are already quite high, drains a lot of Szeth's "magical fuel" early in the fight to power himself up, thus hastening Szeth's defeat. Some might think that Szeth won't retreat because he has a death wish, but I think his desire to perform his duty will outweigh his desire for death.

 

Honestly, I could believe that Sanderson would kill of Dalinar in book two. It seems waaaay to early for me, but Brandon has repeatedly said that just because a certain character's book comes later doesn't mean they won't die before then. And then the example he gives is that, even though Dalinar's book is book 4, there's no guarantee he'll live that long.

 

... Which is just an example, except it really makes me think that Dalinar will not make it to book 4.

 

I also agree that Kaladin's greater abilities will help amke up for his lack of experience.

[Gloom he/him]

There is WoB that Szeth does not have a spren, that Szeth is using the same power set as Kaladin, and a recent reading with Jasnah shows she does have a spren. I think that should bring you up to date.

 

I agree that it is to early to kill off Dalinar. Before Dalinar can die, Kaladin needs to be well along on his path to becoming a KR. He has begun moving in that direction, but he hasn't attained a level of confidence in his new role to handle a major upset like Dalinar getting offed yet. Plus I think Dalinar has a greater role to play in this story. Without him the High Princes will not unite to face the Desolation. I believe that we will see great strides in that direction in WoR, so if the attack occurres at the end of WoR, it's possible that Dalinar will die, but I tend to believe that the attack will happen early to mid-book based on the cover blurb about what will be taking place in the story, and because I believe it is likely that Szeth will reach the Shattered Plains roughly the same time as Jasnah and Shallan unless he detours to Rell Elorim or something first.

[Shardlet he/him]

 a recent reading with Jasnah shows she does have a spren.

 

Or at least strongly suggests she does.

[darkanimereal1]

There is WoB that Szeth does not have a spren, that Szeth is using the same power set as Kaladin, and a recent reading with Jasnah shows she does have a spren. I think that should bring you up to date.

 

Awesome, thanks for the heads up! 

 

Does anyone have a link to the reading? I'd love to check it out

[Shardlet he/him]

Awesome, thanks for the heads up! 

 

Does anyone have a link to the reading? I'd love to check it out

 

Here you go my friend.

 

Edit: Actually here you go.  This one is the extended version that has the juicy bits.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Shardlet

[Arran]

Darnam:

 

Interesting but... what is his duty? Kill Dalinar. Unless I'm mistaken, Taravigan (prolly spelt that wrong, too tired to look it up) didn't qualify that. He didn't say "kill Dalinar if you can" or "try to kill Dalinar and give up and come back if you'll clearly fail". I think in this case, unless King T gave him some order we haven't seen, his death wish and his duty are in alignment.

 

Losing a battle doesn't necessarily mean losing the whole war. If Szeth is forced to retreat once by Kaladin and co., he doesn't have to stop trying to kill Dalinar or go back to Taravangian. He only needs go far enough away to escape pursuit, heal his wounds, come up with a new strategy and new tactics that take into account Kaladin and whoever else stopped him, and try again.

 

darkanimereal1:

 

Honestly, I could believe that Sanderson would kill of Dalinar in book two. It seems waaaay to early for me, but Brandon has repeatedly said that just because a certain character's book comes later doesn't mean they won't die before then. And then the example he gives is that, even though Dalinar's book is book 4, there's no guarantee he'll live that long.

 

I hope that this is a red herring on Brandon's part. I would have little interest in reading the flashback chapters of a character who has already died. I would have no problem doing that if the book was a prequel wholly set in the past or if the character was seen through the POV of someone still alive, mind you, but I believe the flashback chapters of a character who's already died in a 'current-day' novel just wouldn't enjoyable for me.

 

Kaladin's flashback chapters were great because they showed us what ultimately led to him speaking the Words of the Second Ideal and starting to become a Knight Radiant. The past eventually led to and showed us why the character made a tremendously important decision in the current day, a decision that then had a huge and immediate impact in current-day events. To see the past of a character showing us why that character made a very important decision in the past (since the character would be dead at that point) just wouldn't have as much dramatic impact and corresponding excitement for me.

[Scott]

I don't think Dalinar will die until his vision sequence is complete, at the very least.  I hope he lasts longer.  I was never fond of George R. R. Martin's style of main character recycling.  "Oops, I now have 12 main characters, time to murder a few".

[Oudeis he/him]

Darnam:

 

 

 

Losing a battle doesn't necessarily mean losing the whole war. If Szeth is forced to retreat once by Kaladin and co., he doesn't have to stop trying to kill Dalinar or go back to Taravangian. He only needs go far enough away to escape pursuit, heal his wounds, come up with a new strategy and new tactics that take into account Kaladin and whoever else stopped him, and try again.

 

That makes logical sense to someone like you or me. I just don't see it as what Szeth would do, from what we've seen. He is currently insanely overconfident, and also pleading for his own death. If he is ordered to kill Dalinar, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that he would keep trying until he's cut to pieces, thereby fulfilling his oath AND his personal deepest desire. I know that you can warp the words around to make retreat make sense, I just don't see Szeth as being that invested in trying to find a reason to avoid this fatal battle.

[darkanimereal1]

I hope that this is a red herring on Brandon's part. I would have little interest in reading the flashback chapters of a character who has already died. I would have no problem doing that if the book was a prequel wholly set in the past or if the character was seen through the POV of someone still alive, mind you, but I believe the flashback chapters of a character who's already died in a 'current-day' novel just wouldn't enjoyable for me.

 

Kaladin's flashback chapters were great because they showed us what ultimately led to him speaking the Words of the Second Ideal and starting to become a Knight Radiant. The past eventually led to and showed us why the character made a tremendously important decision in the current day, a decision that then had a huge and immediate impact in current-day events. To see the past of a character showing us why that character made a very important decision in the past (since the character would be dead at that point) just wouldn't have as much dramatic impact and corresponding excitement for me.

 

I hear what you're saying. I'm not sure how much I would like to read about a character's past if they're already dead. Let me find Brandon's quote...

 

(By the way, the fact that Book Three will be Szeth’s book and Book Five Dalinar’s should not lead you to relax and take for granted that they will survive until those books. They might indeed; but I decided early on in the plotting that I was fine with having a flashback sequence at any point for a character who had died in a previous book. Just saying...)

 

(From: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/02/the-title-for-brandon-sandersons-second-stormlight-archive-book-has-been-revealed)

 

Oops, look like I got the book # wrong--book 5. Sorry.

 

Shoot... now that I look at this quote, I know there's another with more info.

 

Well, there's this one:

 

Dalinar's book will be Book Five. (Though I haven't promised he will survive that long. I reserve the right to do flashbacks for someone in a book after they have died.)

It WILL be Dalinar's book, however, not one of his sons.

 

From: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theoryland.com%2Fintvsresults.php%3Fkwt%3D'dalinar'&ei=TcdhUuTSA4-24APlz4GwAw&usg=AFQjCNFHLBTj6-9Z_xy5A6PdIKDFNnvyHg&sig2=iegZxLOblJQUdHcThK0XLw&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg

 

Either way, he always uses Dalinar as an example. Honestly, you could use that as an argument that Dalinar won't die (since he keeps saying it over and over), but really, Dalinar just seems too close to understanding what's going on (between the book and his visions) to survive that long.

 

He also mentioned something once (that I can't find), basically saying that he originally wanted everyone to be alive for their book, but it just wasn't going to work out. Instead of torturing himself, he decided the flashbacks could be done separately. Based on that, SOMEONE is going to die before their book. It's just a matter of who.

 

Edited because the links did something funky

Edited October 18, 2013 by darkanimereal1

[diwakar478]

Please excuse if there is any lack of understanding, post after a reread of TWOK and may be loosely related to this thread.

 

Everyone was discussing/predicting about szeth & kaladin fight, but I haven't seen the posts about why had taravangian send szeth at the time he did to kill dalinar?

 

Taravangian had szeth, orders to kill some important figures (high princes, king) but not dalinar on his first assignment, but orders to kill him on his second assignment (just after the failed attempt from sadeas to abandon dalinar on tower, just after navani confirmed his visions to be true).

 

What has changed his mind?

What did he find about dalinar plans/visions?

Who is providing him the information? (if not for the POV from Navani, i would have suspected her because of here privy to the dalinar's visions)

[Argent he/him]

I am not sure the two are related. It is entirely possible that Taravangian was planning to have Dalinar killed all along, but wanted to clean up the rest of the world a little bit first.

[diwakar478]

In chapter 71: 

Taravangian said. “But I am the monster who will save this world.” He looked at Szeth. “I have a name to add to your list. I had hoped to avoid doing this, but recent events have made it inevitable. I cannot let him seize control. It will undermine everything.”

 

The above line clearly states that he had latest information from shattered plains before their meeting.

[Argent he/him]

I had forgotten about this particular detail. Very well then. Though I think Taravangian's issue is more with Dalinar uniting the Alethi armies (and this maybe finally ending the war?) than with his visions which he can't know about.