Beaverton Steelheart Signing

[WeiryWriter he/him]

However, why would Fire be a separate Surge from Friction? Those two are related, after all, so I don't think those are independent things. Of course, that is probably a comment I should save for the Tumblr post's authors

 

I agree, that is one of the few differences between my chart and theirs.  I have that surge as "Heat." Fire, to me, doesn't really make sense to me as a surge, especially since it is an Essence.

[Djerf he/him]

This is the summary in question.

 

EDIT: Thank you, Aztec, to me at least this is new info. 

 

Back to Kaladin's depression. Here are the relevant bullet points:

• Kaladin is canonically written as depressed & Kaladin’s depression is affected by seasons
• Seasons on Roshar are based around the storms (i.e. long lighter storms in the winter, short stronger storms in the summer) rather than time or temperature
• Temperature stays fairly constant because of the lack of an axial tilt

So that's interesting. While I still think it is possible that it's how the environment looks and feels that's making Kaladin depressed (it's called the Weeping, for Heralds' sake!), I am definitely much more open to the idea that as a Surgebinder (or a potential Surgebinder, if we look at his flashback chapters), he is somehow attuned to the highstorms. Maybe not each highstorm individually (though that's also a possibility), but the general concentration, frequency, and intensity during a given season. Feel free to replace "highstorms" with "stormlight" in the aforementioned argument, it should convey similar meaning.

 

I just want to point out that seasonal depression can have surprisingly little to do with the actual seasons, as studies have shown that Scandinavian people that live and have lived in a tropical setting for a long time (even born and raised there) often suffers from winter depression during the Scandinavian winter, a time when there's no local weather patterns that can be attributed as the cause.

 

futher, as I remeber it, there where also a noticable conection between this kind of deppression and ones Scandinavian decent ( How often, how recent and to what percentage).( note that I read this quite a few years ago and it is therefore possible that I'm misremembering this part)

 

Now this shows that there's more then cold, dark and ever present slush to our moodiness  even IRL and if you and magic to the mix, well then anything is possible! However I would be carefull to point fingers at the stormlight for two reasons, first is the meta-reason which is that it would cheepen Kalladin as a character to have one of his major flaws, indeed much of his arc in WoK was to fight this flaw, to be magical in origin unless it really is important and super awesome (see Vin in Mistborn).

the seccond reason is based on the system of magic it self, you see as I understand it one are not born to be a Windrunner but rather one acts like a Windrunner to atract the correct spren which then proceeds to give you the spiritual part necessary to surgebind.

 

While it's unlikely that Kalladin suffers from depressions because of his Windrunnersness it is possible that the splintering of Honor left an abundance of uncontrolled energy for which the Highstorms function as a pressure valve. Said released energy then saturates Roshar which the Rosharians sDNA mutates to take advantage of in some way, with the drawback that some extra sensitive individuals suffers from withdrawal symptoms during periods of low concentration. this could actually cause conflict later on if surgebinders can draw power from other sources then the storms and thus lessening the the uncontrolled buildup of energy, or in the eventuality that they re-forge Honor (mass depression as a result of the ultimate victory over Evil).

[Natans he/him]

I never agreed with this heat\fire surge argument is too much direct, Sanderson never used the simple classic elements in his magic sytems. The Dustbringers "burn surge" must be some of indirect force. like weak/strong atomic force or/and friction like already was said.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I never agreed with this heat\fire surge argument is too much direct, Sanderson never used the simple classic elements in his magic sytems. The Dustbringers "burn surge" must be some of indirect force. like weak/strong atomic force or/and friction like already was said.

 

I find the weak/strong forces to be more likely the Transformation surge since the breaking/forging of the bonds at the atomic level is what defines a substance.

 

I like Heat as a surge because it is a fundamental force/attribute/quality of matter.  Fire is a mere chemical reaction.  Heat is molecular motion itself, to be honest I would be disappointed if it wasn't a surge.

Edited October 11, 2013 by WeiryWriter

[Chaos he/him]

I find the weak/strong forces to be more likely the Transformation surge since the breaking/forging of the bonds at the atomic level is what defines a substance.

 

I like Heat as a surge because it is a fundamental force/attribute/quality of matter.  Heat is molecular motion, to be honest I would be disappointed if it wasn't a surge.

But fundamental properties of matter are not Surges at all. None of the confirmed surges so far are such things. Rather, they are forces acting upon things. Gravity is a force. Pressure applies a force to objects. Friction is a force. Growth is an action, so I guess in Brandon's way of thinking it is a force. Forces are essentially about change, after all. Transformation.

Absolutely zero of these are properties of matter, and have everything to do with change or some force. What aren't Surges: mass, length, temperature, etc.

[Natans he/him]

I find the weak/strong forces to be more likely the Transformation surge since the breaking/forging of the bonds at the atomic level is what defines a substance.

 

I like Heat as a surge because it is a fundamental force/attribute/quality of matter.  Heat is molecular motion, to be honest I would be disappointed if it wasn't a surge.

 

I think that the Transformation surge is more a cognitive/spiritual thing after all its called soulcast, and when Shallan do her Calice/Blood transmutation she talk with the soul/cognitive idea of the calice. 

 

The Weak/atomic force surge could generate heat by acceleration or deceleration of the atoms. This would be my best guess, because to burn rocks like the radiants do in the preface you would need hundreds of Cº to do the trick, but I'm only guessing.

 

In true I'm waiting someone ask Brandon if electromagnetic forces and weak/strong force are really surges like he said.

 

We allready have confirmed was surges:

 

Transformation

Light

Growth

Friction

Gravity

Atmosferic Pressure

 

If we add the surges of:

 

Eletromagnetic Force

Weak/Strong Atomic force

And Travel

 

Just remain one surge to be discovered, and i guess that this surge is related wit earth,like sismic power or something because none fit with the stonewards in my opinion.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Natans

[WeiryWriter he/him]

I guess Chaos.  Personally I think it makes sense as a Surge, and I would kind of say that molecular motion was a "force," maybe.  I really can't think of anything else that would fit there, I'm open to suggestions though.  (Also Brandon didn't say they were off track having fire where they did, and Heat sounds better as the Surge name than fire, but I dunno) 

 

Natans - So far the surges have been pretty much tied to physical forces/stuff, then again the cognitive realm does play a significant role...  I just see manipulation of the weak/strong forces as necessary for soulcasting to actually happen.  On the using them to generate Heat... Maybe?  I don't really see it working but perhaps I'm missing something.

[Natans he/him]

I guess Chaos.  Personally I think it makes sense as a Surge, and I would kind of say that molecular motion was a "force," maybe.  I really can't think of anything else that would fit there, I'm open to suggestions though.  (Also Brandon didn't say they were off track having fire where they did, and Heat sounds better as the Surge name than fire, but I dunno) 

 

Natans - So far the surges have been pretty much tied to physical forces/stuff, then again the cognitive realm does play a significant role...  I just see manipulation of the weak/strong forces as necessary for soulcasting to actually happen.  On the using them to generate Heat... Maybe?  I don't really see it working but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I'm only guessing but growth isn't a more abstract force like transformation ?

 

So far this surge is used to accelarate the growth of plants and accelerate the body healing, what I can't associate with any natural force. So maybe transformation is similar and aren't associeted with a natural force like the others surges.

[Shardlet he/him]

While heat may be considered a property of matter (i.e., heat of formation, etc.), thermal heat is not a property of matter, per se.  It is a quantity of phononic vibration (i.e., molecular vibrational energy).  The temperature of a substance affects many properties of the substance based upon other properties of that same substance (e.g., volume of a substance varies by temperature according the thermal expansion properties of the substance).  Long story short.  Heat shout jive just fine.  Also, while frictional interactions can dissipate forces as heat, heat is much broader and can be generated by more than just friction.