Lerasium stores durability?

[Minsk Ghoul he/him]

I have an idea about what feature can be stored in lerasiummind.

 

Feruchemist can store age in atium. Atium is a "flesh" of Ruin. Ruin is shard of decay and destruction. Aging is the most natural way of living creature self-destruction, so when the feruchenist fill or tap his atiummind, he manipulate with Ruin's presence in his own body.

 

Durability/toughness/endurance (based on a intermolecular and other chemical forces, or even all four fundamental powers of nature) is a feature of material, that prevent it from destruction. So durability is a natural manifestation of Preservation. Lerasium is a "flesh" of Preservation, accordingly feruchemist can store his body's durability in lerasium. What are you think about this idea?

 

P.S. Sorry for bad English. It is not my first language.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Minsk Ghoul

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Mmm, i'd have to disagree. It sounds too similar to Gold or Atium (meaning as you store, your body becomes weaker/has less vitality or along those lines) I do agree with your reasoning that the property a Lerasium-mind stores most probably aligns/reflects the Ideal of Preservation as Age is to Ruin given how diametrically opposite yet inextricably linked they were. As for what that property might be, I could barely hazard average guesses but any idea i do think of keeps reflecting Atium. I can think of an interesting idea for Allomantic Lerasium but a Feruchemical one keeps eluding me

[Minsk Ghoul he/him]

Thank for the first answer, I understand your arguments, but I talk about durability/toughness as an mechanical property: when you store it, your body became more frail, when you tap it - you can break a brick by your head. Also I have an additional reasoning. It much weaker reasoning, but it still exist. When allomancer burn pewter, this metal give more powers than any other metal. It gives:

• Strength (Thug is very strong)
• Wakefulness (Thug need less sleep) 
• Body warmth (Thug is more cold resistant)
• Health (more regeneration)
• Physical speed (obviously connected with strength)
• Satiety (Thug need less food)
• Durability (Thugs body less vulnerable to mechanical damage)

During the strange regularity all this characteristics can be feruchemically stored. Only durability don't found it's own metalmind. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Minsk Ghoul

[Topomouse he/him]

I like this idea, but I think it could be a bit improved.

 

I think that it would make sense for Lerasium to have an effect that is sort of opposite to Atium's. But if it was just that storing make you age faster and tapping age slower it would be boring.

So I propose that Lerasium doesn't store durability, but changeability. If we look at the creation of life on Scadrial we see that Preservation surely couldn't destroy anything, but neither it could create. He rejected any change, whether it was positive or negative.

So storing with Lerasium would make both your body and your mind more malleable: you train more easily, but also lose muscle more quickly if you don't; similarly, it's easier to learn new stuff, but it's also easier to forget the old, everything changes more easily and quickly.

On the other end when you tap you became more difficult to change, you are set in your ways, don't change opinions about anithing, and your body persists in the state it was when you started tapping.

 

I hope what I wrote makes sense, the idea seems like it could have many interesting developments.

[Minsk Ghoul he/him]

Oh, thanks. Your idea is more uniting than mind. My idea was, that lerasium prevent body from changing under inner influence, but your way of thinking is more generic. But I think it's too generic. Every metal can store only one narrow ability. You even can't store more than one sense on tinmind, or both food and drink on the same bendalloymind. Also you can store only age on atiummind, while a lot of other natural manifestations of Ruin exist.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

I still think that durability would be too similar to Allomantic Pewter/Feruchemical Atium or Gold. Pewter just enchances your physical capabilties or prowess, making you just that bit more stronger/faster but it still taxes the body if you're pewterdragging.

 

I'm trying to imagine a viable option as a compromise but every time i try thinking of something that can be stored and tapped that represents/embodies a living organism's ideal of Preservation, all I get is something like....recording a snapshot of a person's physical make-up, right down to the atomic level and causing it to simultaneously go into suspended animation  but this would be more Allomantic than Feruchemical (I call mechanical Feruchemical/Allomantic Lerasium cryogenic sleep/suspended animation pods for the future triology!)

 

EDIT: Word order

Edited August 11, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Minsk Ghoul he/him]

 

... still too similar to Allomantic Pewter...

This is what I talked about in my second post. All pewter allomantic features have feruchemical correspondences, but durability has not, and lerasium still only one metal with unknown feruchemical qualities and durability seem to fit so good.

 

How I see the mechanism of feruchemical durability. Feruchemist stores the energy of intermolecular bonds. Exactly energy, not force. So when he tap, all molecules of body fall in "energetic pit", the forces between then still the same, so they influence each other in the same way as in normal state, but external force will need extra energy to change a state of any molecule. So body become more tough against internal mechanical influence and, as the side effect, it will gain an extra warmth capacity.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Minsk Ghoul

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

I'd still say it doesn't sound right. After all, when tapping Iron or Pewterminds, your body adjusts itself to the changes the mind is exerting on it (although there is a hard limit on this i think): in the case of Ironminds, when falling from a height with increased weight, their body doesn't crumple/break when they land: Pewterminds don't cause permanent damage to your muscles when tapping for strength. Again, I can't at this time offer another option (storming brain of mine) but I do like your initial idea 

 

As for storing intermolecular bond energy, that could give rise to some interesting scenarios, cosmere-wide

[StarFox]

I like this idea, but I think it could be a bit improved.

 

I think that it would make sense for Lerasium to have an effect that is sort of opposite to Atium's. But if it was just that storing make you age faster and tapping age slower it would be boring.

So I propose that Lerasium doesn't store durability, but changeability. If we look at the creation of life on Scadrial we see that Preservation surely couldn't destroy anything, but neither it could create. He rejected any change, whether it was positive or negative.

So storing with Lerasium would make both your body and your mind more malleable: you train more easily, but also lose muscle more quickly if you don't; similarly, it's easier to learn new stuff, but it's also easier to forget the old, everything changes more easily and quickly.

On the other end when you tap you became more difficult to change, you are set in your ways, don't change opinions about anithing, and your body persists in the state it was when you started tapping.

 

I hope what I wrote makes sense, the idea seems like it could have many interesting developments.

This is a good speculation. I would not be surprised that if BS discloses lerassium can be used to plasticity(changeability) or stability(un-changeability).

 

Imagine someone with a lerasiummind could save himself from horrible accident by tapping stability in a shot time.

[skaa he/him]

I think there's one point that's being missed here. Atium doesn't store age. It stores youth. Storing makes you older, and is therefore what is attuned to Ruin's Intent. Tapping from an atiummind makes you younger, which is the opposite of ruining you.

If lerasium follows the same theme, then tapping from a lerasiummind would make you less preservation-y.

So, if anything, it would be storing in lerasium that would make you more durable/stable.

Edited January 3, 2016 by skaa

[DreamEternal]

I think there's one point that's being missed here. Atium doesn't store age. It does youth. Storing makes you older, and is therefore what is attuned to Ruin's Intent. Tapping from an atiummind makes you younger, which is the opposite of ruining you.

If lerasium follows the same theme, then tapping from a lerasiummind would make you less preservation-y.

So, if anything, it would be storing in lerasium that would make you more durable/stable.

That is assuming opposing shards work in the same way. It could swing in either direction here, since we have no direct comparison.

[skaa he/him]

That is assuming opposing shards work in the same way. It could swing in either direction here, since we have no direct comparison.

 

That's debatable, but if the people above were working under the idea that the pattern is broken in lerasium's case, they never mentioned it. It seems to me that they got confused about which half of Feruchemy (the storing half or the tapping half) actually matches the Shard's Intent in atium's case.

 

Feruchemy is a (presumably balanced) mixture of Preservation and Ruin, so I don't see why one Shard would break the pattern (store=match Shard's Intent, tap=oppose Shard's Intent). Besides, if what you say is true, then both atium and lerasium would match Ruin's Intent when storing (atium=age more, "lerasium"=be more changeable). That doesn't seem right to me.

 

(Edit: Unless if the pattern is actually "storing=Ruin" for all metals, which does fit. Storing involves losing something positive, ruining yourself. That would resolve my issue, but I think it's still important to acknowledge that the Feruchemical attribute being stored in a god metal does not necessarily match the god metal's Shard. Youth does not match Ruin. This could be important if god metals of non-Scadrian Shards start popping up. *cough*)

 

Speaking of breaking patterns, @Minsk Ghoul's idea regarding Pewter Allomancy's connection to Feruchemical powers is very interesting, but again there's something that breaks the pattern. Steel (Speed), pewter (Strength), brass (Warmth), and bronze (Wakefulness) are all alloys, but gold (Health) isn't. That kind of bothers me a bit. Maybe the higher metals (the Spiritual and Hybrid ones) have the opposite pattern, so Pewter Allomancy would have boosted attributes for higher non-alloy metals: Health (gold), Oxygen (cadmium), Identity (aluminum), and Luck (chromium)?

Edited January 3, 2016 by skaa

[DreamEternal]

But lerasium can't break the pattern that that storing brings you close to the shard because the pattern has only one exemple, of its fundamentaly opposite shardmetal. It isn't a pattern at all.

[skaa he/him]

But lerasium can't break the pattern that that storing brings you close to the shard because the pattern has only one exemple, of its fundamentaly opposite shardmetal. It isn't a pattern at all.

 

Heh, that was actually why I put the Edit part there. The "store=ruin yourself" is a pattern that's followed by most metals.

 

Anyway, the "lerasium stores something connected to preserving things" rests upon the assumption that god metalminds store something that matches their Shard's Intent. That's clearly not the case with atium, which stores youthfulness.

Edited January 3, 2016 by skaa

[Full Metal Rithmatist]

BRANDON SANDERSON

His bead? Hoid’s bead was—He originally got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer. [Note that he doesn’t actually answer the question.]

 

 

He wasnt an allomancer when he got the bead, but brandon doesnt commit on whether he actually used it for that or not.

[Stormgate he/him]

We know from metal burning on Roshar that Hoid burned some lerasium, at least.