Witborn Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Maybe i am being picky. This one really grated for the use of the word "restaurant". It just jarred - Brandon could have used the word eateries, but the french word felt quite out of place. That wasn't out of place for me. In North East USA, restaurant is used almost exclusively to eaterie. Are you from the US?
natc Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Eatery doesn't even exist in my vocabulary, so . . . When did "restaurant" become an exclusively French word? Large portions of the English language consists of misdefined and/or mispronounced French. 1
Hoid Is Dead Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Half of Shallan's quips in way of the kings. 2
Guest Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Eatery doesn't even exist in my vocabulary, so . . . When did "restaurant" become an exclusively French word? Large portions of the English language consists of misdefined and/or mispronounced French. In Quebec we use "restaurant" both in French and in English...
Zathoth Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 In sweden we only use "Restaurant." We dont even have a swedish word for it.
+Wax he/him Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) The word ‘Restaurant’ derives from the French verb restaurer, meaning to restore. It was first used in France in the 16th century, to describe the thick and cheap soups sold by street vendors that were advertised to restore your health. It was in 1765 that a Monsieur Boulanger of Paris actually opened a shop selling soups. The sign outside of M. Boulanger’s shop is said to have read, “VENITE AD ME VOS QUI STOMACHO LABORATIS ET EGO RESTAURABO VOS” (Come to me, all who labour in the stomach, and I will restore you.) and this led to the use of the word restaurant to describe such shops. Boulanger did try to add stew to his list of soups but was successfully sued by a number of Parisian traiteurs (people who ran cookhouses). But it was not too long before ‘restaurants’ combined both soup and other food courses, including stews. But his soup-shop was still a long way off from the types of establishment we think of today when we utter the word restaurant. Nicholas Kiefer in his excellent published article, Economics and the Origin of the Restaurant, has this to say: “Pressures leading to the creation of the restaurant— with its individual tables, individual orders, flexible dining times convenient to the patrons, and payment by item ordered—came from both those who demanded food away from home and from its suppliers. From the diner’s point of view, the restaurant format offered a kind of privacy. The diner could eat alone or with companions of his or her choosing. The table d’hôte format is more social, but the mix of companions facing a stranger coming to an inn or cookshop [traiteurs] wasn’t always ideal for outsiders. More important, the diner in a restaurant could order, eat, drink, and pay for only and exactly what she wished. In contrast, in the table d’hôte format one ate what one could grab of what was served. Finally, the restaurant patron could eat at the time of his convenience, rather than when the host chose to serve the meal.” While there were restaurants in some form or other in Paris during the decades preceding the French Revolution, it was this late 18th Century historical event that provided the social conditions for the evolution of the restaurant as we know it today. A restaurant boom occurred at this time through the elimination of restrictive Guild rules coupled with the large number of chefs entering the labour market who had previously been employed by aristocrats who had lost their heads. As the London Dorchester’s executive chef, Jocelyn Herland, recently remarked: “If I could go back to any historic period, I would have to say the time after the French revolution of 1789. It was during this time that restaurants, as we know them today, made their appearance. After the French revolution, many chefs who were cooking high-quality cuisine at the houses of noblemen lost their jobs and thus opened their own restaurants.” So there you have it. The origin of the word Restaurant. Thanks for reading. I agree that restaurant is a common word. In fact I would struggle myself to find a modern equivalent. But, I would struggle to find a historical equivalent for the word laser as well. My point is that the word sounded too modern and out of place owing to the clear french origin. No, I am not from USA. I've read a lot of these swords and dragon type books and have never seen the word restaurant used. Edited September 20, 2015 by axcellence
DreamEternal Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I agree that restaurant is a common word. In fact I would struggle myself to find a modern equivalent. But, I would struggle to find a historical equivalent for the word laser as well. My point is that the word sounded too modern and out of place owing to the clear french origin. No, I am not from USA. I've read a lot of these swords and dragon type books and have never seen the word restaurant used. But did restaurants even exist in these books? While the word may be "too modern" for your tastes, restaurants in our world are also relatively modern, and the word itself is older than restaurants as we know them.If in Roshar restaurants as we know them arised earlier than we would expect if we took our world as a model due to different circunstances, them why should Brandon make up a world to describe them, or use a world that would be "historicaly correct" in our world but innacurate for how they actualy work in Roshar instead of using a well know and relatively precise word? Roshar is not Earth, so it is best to just assume it is a translation. Edited September 21, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
+Wax he/him Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 But did restaurants even exist in these books? While the word may be "too modern" for your tastes, restaurants in our world are also relatively modern, and the word itself is older than restaurants as we know them. If in Roshar restaurants as we know them arised earlier than we would expect if we took our world as a model due to different circunstances, them why should Brandon make up a world to describe them, or use a world that would be "historicaly correct" in our world but innacurate for how they actualy work in Roshar instead of using a well know and relatively precise word? Roshar is not Earth, so it is best to just assume it is a translation. Look - That's neither here or there. Roshar is not earth. That reason can be applied for saying anything. Maybe they are really advanced and can launch rockets. I would say that goes against how their technological progress has been portrayed. But what do I know. After all, Roshar is not earth and maybe they can launch rockets. All I am saying is that the word didn't fit in my view. I acknowledged in my original post that it might just be me, but the word, given its strong recent origin, ie nearabouts the French Revolution just didn't work for me.
natc Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Their society seems fairly advanced to me, tbh. The lack of better technology can be blamed on the world ending every few centuries up until the previous desolation, and weapons as destructive as shardblades/plate probably stalled weapons advances for a bit. Fabrial science also diverts scientific attention. But aside from that the Plains seemed pretty decked out for a storming warcamp of all places. Impacts made by the Shards potentially importing parts of Yolen's culture when setting all this up need to be accounted for too. It is possible that the societies of Roshar are far more elaborate than their tech level suggests. Plus, they're actually speaking Alethi, so whatever out-of-place English we get is just an approximate translation. I highly doubt what they are drinking is "normal" wine when it's all blue and orange and other colors, and it seems you can't even physically get drunk on some of them. "Restaurant" may be the most accurate representation of the establishment.
DreamEternal Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) That is exactly what I meant. Plus, comparing restaurants, wich depend much more on sociological factors than technological ones to aerospacial enginnering is very unfair and indirectly assumes all societies must have changed like our own with time, or stayed stuck at a certain level, no matter how wildly the circunstances differ. Edited September 21, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
Zea mays Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 The Alethi society is wildly inconsistent with any Earth period, but this isn't a bug, it's a feature. Notice that in Amaram's section of the army, the soldiers wear Roman-style leather skirts, while Dalinar's Cobalt Guard dress like extras from the Napoleonic wars. There is an in-text reason for the inconsistency: the Heralds. Taln's mantra is all about how the others will teach humanity everything they have forgotten after the last desolation. Except, this time, not everything's been forgotten. Some things have been preserved - Lirin cites "wisdom from the heralds" when he admonishes Kal to wash his hands thoroughly and keep the surgery room clean. Other things, one presumes, have been independently re-discovered. I'm not sure if any herald dictated a manual for success in the hospitality industry, but some notions of money management and commerce surely have been passed down or been re-developed, especially in a cosmopolitan trade city like Kharbranth. 1
Grey Knight Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 You know, I have to agree with everyone about the "Stretch forth thy hand!" part. Definitely cringeworthy. But it was earned. Although it was bad, the scene it was in made it work (somewhat). I dare anyone who has read WoR to disagree with me. 2
DreamEternal Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) You know, I have to agree with everyone about the "Stretch forth thy hand!" part. Definitely cringeworthy. But it was earned. Although it was bad, the scene it was in made it work (somewhat). I dare anyone who has read WoR to disagree with me. I do. That scene was already overdramatic and felt in many ways forced (for exemple, Graves explaining his plans and laughing while he ran). It would be better in my opinion if Syl said something more low key, or at least used "your" instead of "thy". Edited September 21, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
Left he/him Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 You know, I have to agree with everyone about the "Stretch forth thy hand!" part. Definitely cringeworthy. But it was earned. Although it was bad, the scene it was in made it work (somewhat). I dare anyone who has read WoR to disagree with me. Accepted. It's very jarring to me, for all of the reasons that have been given. It's bothered me both times I've read that scene.
Grey Knight Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I do. That scene was already overdramatic and felt in many ways forced (for exemple, Graves explaining his plans and laughing while he ran). It would be better in my opinion if Syl said something more low key, or at least used "your" instead of "thy". Accepted. It's very jarring to me, for all of the reasons that have been given. It's bothered me both times I've read that scene. Hmmm. I think people misunderstood me. I love that scene. It is emotionally powerful. There's just something about Kaladin being a complete wreck but still trying to do the right thing that's awesome. That being said, there are a few lines in that scene that feel off. The dramatic wording is- let's face it- out of place and can jar the flow of the book. But, storm it, it makes it so awesome! Edited September 21, 2015 by The Potato 2
Teegs Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) "Jam. I like jam." ... Makes me want to throw my phone every time I listen to it. To the point were my lady friend torments me with it any time I ask her what she likes. And basically any scene with Shallan and Cabsule. (Not sure the spelling of his name, Audiobookism) Edited September 22, 2015 by Teegs
Ardjet Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) About the whole:"Kaladin!" Syl's voice. "Stretch forth thy hand!" She zipped around him, suddenly visible as a ribbon of light. "I can't. . . " Kaladin said, drained. "Stretch forth thy hand!" thing. I, too, find it jarring every time. But the second time she says it, to me it sounds like she's exasperated and impatient in typical Syl fashion. As in, "Stretch forth thy hand!" "I can't-" "Argh! Kaladin! Stretch forth thy hand, idiot!" kind of way. When I read it like that, it makes me chuckle and softens the blow. Edited September 23, 2015 by Rubix Watch the language, please
Ardjet Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) "Jam. I like jam." ... Makes me want to throw my phone every time I listen to it. To the point were my lady friend torments me with it any time I ask her what she likes. And basically any scene with Shallan and Cabsule. (Not sure the spelling of his name, Audiobookism) Kabsal is the spelling. Just FYI. Edited September 22, 2015 by Ardjet 1
The Honor Spren she/her Posted September 22, 2015 Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) My point is that the word sounded too modern and out of place owing to the clear french origin. No, I am not from USA. I've read a lot of these swords and dragon type books and have never seen the word restaurant used. Have you read Warbreaker yet?The afternoon restaurant crowd was large--people usually ate out at midday, when it made more sense to buy food then return home for a meal. The entire concept of a restaurant still seemed strange to her. Didn't these men have wives or servants to make them meals? Didn't they feel uncomfortable eating in such a public place? It was so . . . impersonal.A good part of the book takes place in restaurants. Edited September 22, 2015 by The Honor Spren
+Wax he/him Posted September 25, 2015 Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Have you read Warbreaker yet? A good part of the book takes place in restaurants. To be honest,Warbreaker jarred a fair bit. The whole skirt thing was strange. Restaurant was one of my jarring concerns in that one. Alloy of law jarred when cosmic help came on demand in the climax. Mistborn - yeah we get it - ash is falling from the sky. I liked almost all the books that Brandon's written, but yeah, I am only discussing SA here. Edited September 25, 2015 by axcellence
natc Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) Alloy of Law's "cosmic help" wasn't really all that phenomenal tbh. He didn't really do anything beyond aligning a fairly uncanny number of coincidences. Edited September 26, 2015 by natc
+Wax he/him Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 Alloy of Law's "cosmic help" wasn't really all that phenomenal tbh. He didn't really do anything beyond aligning a fairly uncanny number of coincidences. We digress into AOL, but remember the scene where wax is pinned and ge asks for some help, up pops up sigzil giving a comFort power boost to Wax.
DreamEternal Posted September 26, 2015 Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) We digress into AOL, but remember the scene where wax is pinned and ge asks for some help, up pops up sigzil giving a comFort power boost to Wax. Sigzil? And what is comFort? I don't get it. Althought I listened to AoL instead of reading it, and english is not my native language, so I lost some things in the climax. However, I am sure you meant "Saze". Edited September 26, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern
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