Theory: Gaining Feruchemy

[Senor Feesh]

My question is, how does the well know how long a year is? And did it change when Rasheck started playing solar-system pool with it?

 

It's also possible the year-length didn't change, as Rashek could have slowed the orbit. Actually, wouldn't the speed of orbit need to be altered to stop Scadrial flying into space or landing on a wookiee spiralling into the sun? Don't know enough physics, but I think it would actually need to speed up for that to work... hmm...

[Voidus]

I'm definitely leaning towards the planet being responsible. The Well is attached to Scadrial's magnetic pole, they were tied to one another, so it wouldn't surprise me if the Well simply adjested to refilling in 1024 of the shorter years.

This is actually an interesting point I haven't thought about before, why is the Well there? I'm pretty sure other wells aren't near the poles, possibly something to do with the focus on Scadrial being metal I suppose, which would make sense given the location of the pool on Sel. Could they be the planets kind of lensing Shardic power through to the planet? Ah my mind just exploded with theories, which I may or may not formalise soon.

[Kadrok she/her]

This is actually an interesting point I haven't thought about before, why is the Well there? I'm pretty sure other wells aren't near the poles, possibly something to do with the focus on Scadrial being metal I suppose, which would make sense given the location of the pool on Sel. Could they be the planets kind of lensing Shardic power through to the planet? Ah my mind just exploded with theories, which I may or may not formalise soon.

One of the questions I just read was "Are cosmere planets alive like in Final Fantasy?" to which Brandon answered yes... connection?

[Voidus]

One of the questions I just read was "Are cosmere planets alive like in Final Fantasy?" to which Brandon answered yes... connection?

Yeah that's what I was referring to at the start, that the well might gain it's knowledge of what constitutes a year by the planets cognitive aspect.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

It's also possible the year-length didn't change, as Rashek could have slowed the orbit. Actually, wouldn't the speed of orbit need to be altered to stop Scadrial flying into space or landing on a wookiee spiralling into the sun? Don't know enough physics, but I think it would actually need to speed up for that to work... hmm...

Well, for any given orbital radius (technically: semi-major axis) around the sun there's only a single orbital period that works. It's a function of distance^(3/2), so you'd have a rather shorter year if you're closer to the sun.

[Senor Feesh]

Ah, cool, didn't know the formula so mass isn't a factor then? Don't know why but I assumed it would be. Also it did seem more likely that you'd end up with shorter years closer in, so I'm glad I ended up being right about that even if I came to it in a roundabout way

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Ah, cool, didn't know the formula so mass isn't a factor then? Don't know why but I assumed it would be. Also it did seem more likely that you'd end up with shorter years closer in, so I'm glad I ended up being right about that even if I came to it in a roundabout way

Mass of the orbiting body doesn't matter (so long as it's small compared to your big central one). Otherwise you'd have problems with moons and asteroid belts and stuff.

[Khmauv he/him]

Just to kind of steer things back on course...I have a thought on the formation feruchemists. Forgive me this is a stab in the dark. It is a result of hemalurgy.

 

Preservation gave part of itself to all to make them sentient. This had a side effect of making a small percentage of the people mistings even before the ascension. I just learned recently, correct me if I am wrong, that the people, pre-ascension of tLR, practiced hemalurgy. Given the inborn preservation and the hemalurgic addition of ruin, and your children then have both leading to the remote probability of a child with just the right sDNA to be a feruchemist.

 

I realize this is a long shot and it doesn't explain why there were no ferrings of record until after harmony, but I like the idea and thought someone else might like to help me explore it.  

[Isomere]

@Khmauv: A couple ideas: Terrismen may have developed the right Identity to use Feruchemy because their culture is so focused on balance and harmony. The place they lived may have also have had something to do with it: A small culture living near both the Well of Ascension and the Pool or Ruin seems a good setup for stuff to happen. Also, because they were so isolated the gene pool would not get diluted and allow for the changes to add up over generations.

 

The ferrings is a good question. It is strange why the Terris people had either all powers or none. Perhaps some of them were Ferrings, but just needed to Snap or some such? It was a very peaceful culture and I doubt they routinely beat their kids. I have never heard of Ferrings needing to be Snapped, so pretty speculative at this point. 

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Ferrings exist because misting genes interfere with the expression of feruchemy. With less lerasium in the gene pool, you presumably wouldn't get that interference.

That said, this quote seems to mean that ferrings don't need to snap:

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/712-report-signing-with-brandon-and-peter-orullian/

Josh: How does one detect a new Feruchemist?

Feruchemists, when they touch metals, have an empathy for the metal that they can use.

[Dysphoric Kitten she/her]

@Khmauv: A couple ideas: Terrismen may have developed the right Identity to use Feruchemy because their culture is so focused on balance and harmony. The place they lived may have also have had something to do with it: A small culture living near both the Well of Ascension and the Pool or Ruin seems a good setup for stuff to happen. Also, because they were so isolated the gene pool would not get diluted and allow for the changes to add up over generations.

 

The ferrings is a good question. It is strange why the Terris people had either all powers or none. Perhaps some of them were Ferrings, but just needed to Snap or some such? It was a very peaceful culture and I doubt they routinely beat their kids. I have never heard of Ferrings needing to be Snapped, so pretty speculative at this point. 

 

According to Brandon, the population was pure Terris, which meant the powers were strong when they did appear. However, when the lines diluted, the Terris blood weakened to create a non-true feruchemist - a ferring. 

 

This does not actually make genetic sense, but it might be a part of the cognitive/spiritual DNAs that matters. Someone is spiritually very Terris, but not cognitively, they have no powers. Same for the spouse, who is strong cognitively but not spiritually. Their child, who happens to be strong both ways, is a keeper. Still sketchy, but better.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

According to Brandon, the population was pure Terris, which meant the powers were strong when they did appear. However, when the lines diluted, the Terris blood weakened to create a non-true feruchemist - a ferring. 

 

This does not actually make genetic sense, but it might be a part of the cognitive/spiritual DNAs that matters. Someone is spiritually very Terris, but not cognitively, they have no powers. Same for the spouse, who is strong cognitively but not spiritually. Their child, who happens to be strong both ways, is a keeper. Still sketchy, but better.

 

Actually Brandon usually attributes the emergence of ferrings to the mixing of feruchemical genes with allomantic ones.  It is mistings that became more common as a result of "dilution" with the effects of the original nine allomancers consuming lerasium got spread out. 

[Scriptorian he/him]

My theory is that Feruchemy has deeper cosmere implications than what we know about. I think that maybe it was around pre-Shattering, but it wouldn't have necessarily been in a form we would recognize since the storage reciprocals wouldn't necessarily have been metal. When by whatever means it was introduced to Scadrial, the focus became metals to fit with whatever aspect it is about that planet that is connected to metals.

 

The thing is, Preservation and Ruin each designed their respective systems. Who designed Feruchemy then? And why was it limited to a specific population? This to me says that its origins are beyond what we know currently of the worlds history. Perhaps Hoid somehow introduced it when he organized the Worldbringers?

 

REDACTED

 

Also, we know that Hoid can use Feruchemy, but in way we haven't been able to identify, so I suspect he is related to this mess.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Windrunner

[WeiryWriter he/him]

My theory is that Feruchemy has deeper cosmere implications than what we know about. I think that maybe it was around pre-Shattering, but it wouldn't have necessarily been in a form we would recognize since the storage reciprocals wouldn't necessarily have been metal. When by whatever means it was introduced to Scadrial, the focus became metals to fit with whatever aspect it is about that planet that is connected to metals.

 

The thing is, Preservation and Ruin each designed their respective systems. Who designed Feruchemy then? And why was it limited to a specific population? This to me says that its origins are beyond what we know currently of the worlds history. Perhaps Hoid somehow introduced it when he organized the Worldbringers?

REDACTED

Also, we know that Hoid can use Feruchemy, but in way we haven't been able to identify, so I suspect he is related to this mess.

 

First of all, Preservation and Ruin did not design their respective magic systems.  All three magic systems came about through the realmatic interactions of the two shards and Scadrial itself.  They did have the ability to fudge with the rules as is evidenced by Preservation replacing the external temporal metals with atium/malatium but He didn't design allomancy.

 

Also, I don't think we are supposed to post spoilers from unpublished works on the boards, even in spoiler tags.  (Especially Dragonsteel since that is just about impossible for most fans to get a hold of.)

[Windrunner he/him]

Thank you Weiry. Serendipity, we don't allow any Dragonsteel spoilers (or any from any of Brandon's unpublished works, excluding Mythwalker I suppose) as per Brandon's request. I edited your post to remove the spoilers. If you know someone on the boards who has read Dragonsteel, feel free to strike up a PM discussion, but just not anywhere public. Thank you!

[Scriptorian he/him]

Oops, my bad! It was probably completely irrelevant anyway.

I guess I was using "design" a little loosely, but I still think that the magic systems each required some kind of consent of the shard. Preservation had to give humans a bit of his power for them to use it, so there's a definate origin to allomancy. I guess all I'm saying is that the assumption that Feruchemy just kind of arose by itself as a consequence of the two shards feels rather incomplete.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Oops, my bad! It was probably completely irrelevant anyway.

I guess I was using "design" a little loosely, but I still think that the magic systems each required some kind of consent of the shard. Preservation had to give humans a bit of his power for them to use it, so there's a definate origin to allomancy. I guess all I'm saying is that the assumption that Feruchemy just kind of arose by itself as a consequence of the two shards feels rather incomplete.

 

Preservation gave humans a part of his investiture so they could be sentient, not for them to use allomancy.  We don't know how any of the metallic arts first came to be used. 

[Scriptorian he/him]

Preservation gave humans a part of his investiture so they could be sentient, not for them to use allomancy.  We don't know how any of the metallic arts first came to be used. 

 

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-mistborn-3-chapter-seventy/

That’s because the Allomantic power comes from the extra bit of Preservation inside of humans, that same extra bit that gives us free will. 

So I guess you could argue that Allomancy was a side-effect that Leras didn't intend for, but at least we can identify for the most part why some people are potential allomancers and others aren't. (The amount of Preservation inherent in some one's Spiritweb, which simply varies from person to person, with notable increases when lerasium enters the gene pool) On the other hand, we can't figure out why only Terris people could be feruchemists, since it probably has very little to do the Preservation/Ruin ratios in a person. 

 

I'm just sayin' that there's probably some spooky, behind-the-scenes, mojo going on with Feruchemy, and we simply don't know enough to say what yet.

 

Edit: Are you arguing with me just because you're an Evil Librarian?

Edited October 11, 2013 by Serendipity

[WeiryWriter he/him]

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-mistborn-3-chapter-seventy/

So I guess you could argue that Allomancy was a side-effect that Leras didn't intend for, but at least we can identify for the most part why some people are potential allomancers and others aren't. (The amount of Preservation inherent in some one's Spiritweb, which simply varies from person to person, with notable increases when lerasium enters the gene pool) On the other hand, we can't figure out why only Terris people could be feruchemists, since it probably has very little to do the Preservation/Ruin ratios in a person. 

 

I'm just sayin' that there's probably some spooky, behind-the-scenes, mojo going on with Feruchemy, and we simply don't know enough to say what yet.

 

I guess you could say I'm in the "side-effect" group.  Though it is just how it works.  In order for people to access a shard's power the shard needs to bestow investiture upon them. (I.E. if Odium just showed up on Scadrial people would be able to just burn raysium, he would have to do something to give them that ability)

 

On the feruchemy thing... I dunno.  I view it is as "mutation" in their sDNA that didn't spread to the rest of Scadrial because of their insular nature.  Though that strays into a debunked theory of mine so who knows.

 

Edit: Are you arguing with me just because you're an Evil Librarian?

 

Mwahahaha

[Navi]

We know that one of the functions of buring Lerasium is to make someone a Mistborn, and everything I've seen assumes Feruchemy can be gained in a similar way (so forgive me if someone else has already thought of this). What if Feruchemy is gained not through burning but through tapping?

Perhaps Lerasium*, or an alloy or it, or some other (god) metal carries a Feruchemical charge which can be drawn by anyone on Scadrial, and which when drawn makes you a Feruchemist?

Or perhaps, fitting even further with the nature of Feruchemy, just as burning Lerasium fits with the nature of Allomancy, it requires first a Feruchemist to store their Feruchemy in the metal. They are weakened in the short term (or permanently) in order to create a Feruchemist.

Thoughts?

*I realise that Feruchemy is the power of balance between Ruin and Preservation, and Lerasium is only Preservation... the reason I suggest here it might be only Lerasium is because Lerasium has the "rewrite Spiritual-DNA" ability. This is just a possibility, as is the possibility a "Sazedium" is the key... obviously I'm leaving the metal open here, and am more interested in the idea that a Feruchemist-wannabe has to tap something, rather than burn something to ascend.

Maybe feruchemists arises from inherent extra ruin & preservation investure from living in such close proximity to divine energies. & occred when the terris people started "snapping".

Another thought i had was through hemulgary with a lesarium spike. But the victim would also be the receiver.

[EdroGrimshell]

Maybe feruchemists arises from inherent extra ruin & preservation investure from living in such close proximity to divine energies. & occred when the terris people started "snapping".

I agree with this to an extent. I personally see Feruchemy being a balance of Ruin and Preservation, since you use Ruin to weaken yourself and preservation to store it. Tapping the power is just you bridging the gap to preserve the balance and compounding that reserve uses Ruin as a bridge to get the reserves to collapse in on themselves (hence the power lost to the collapse). My thoughts in that regard is that the Terris people were some of the earliest humans, and all that came after didn't have the proper balance of power to give them feruchemy.

[King's Twit he/him]

I agree with this to an extent. I personally see Feruchemy being a balance of Ruin and Preservation, since you use Ruin to weaken yourself and preservation to store it. Tapping the power is just you bridging the gap to preserve the balance and compounding that reserve uses Ruin as a bridge to get the reserves to collapse in on themselves (hence the power lost to the collapse). My thoughts in that regard is that the Terris people were some of the earliest humans, and all that came after didn't have the proper balance of power to give them feruchemy.

But that would require either Ruin giving more of himself to help Preservation give the Terris sentience, or it would mean that the Terris don't have extra preservation and have sentience anyway, which makes me wonder why Preservation would give more of himself to the other Scadriens at all.

I believe that Feruchemy came from using Lerasium in a more deliberate way. We know that it can rewrite your sDNA in more ways that just making you a mistborn, so it was either a shift of intent to endowing Feruchemy, or an alternative method to burning pure Lerasium, whether that be using it in a way other than burning it or burning it alloyed with something else. That alloy could be Atium, which would likely make you correct about the power stemming from a balance, but I don't think it came from a deliberate endowment of balanced power from be Shards when they created the Terris.

Edited December 26, 2015 by King's Twit

[EdroGrimshell]

But that would require either Ruin giving more of himself to help Preservation give the Terris sentience, or it would mean that the Terris don't have extra preservation and have sentience anyway, which makes me wonder why Preservation would give more of himself to the other Scadriens at all.

I believe that Feruchemy came from using Lerasium in a more deliberate way. We know that it can rewrite your sDNA in more ways that just making you a mistborn, so it was either a shift of intent to endowing Feruchemy, or an alternative method to burning pure Lerasium, whether that be using it in a way other than burning it or burning it alloyed with something else. That alloy could be Atium, which would likely make you correct about the power stemming from a balance, but I don't think it came from a deliberate endowment of balanced power from be Shards when they created the Terris.

Note, I said Balance. Not equality. Just like having the right balance of carbon in iron will turn it into steel.