Anyone know where Stonesinew's Honorblade went? (Spoilers for Words of Radiance)

[WuseMajor]

Hello everyone.  I spotted something recently on a reread of Words of Radiance and wondered if anyone had noticed what happened.

 

At the end of Way of Kings, Talenel'Elin returns carrying his Honorblade, which is described as follows:

 

"To his side, he carried a massive Shardblade, point down, sticking about a finger’s width into the stone, his hand on the hilt. The Blade reflected torchlight; it was long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike."

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1002). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Now, after various events in Words of Radiance, Talenel'Elin comes into Dalinar's care and Dalinar takes posession of the Shardblade.  Except that, when he finally pulls it in the text it's described as "Wider than most, it was almost cleaverlike in appearance."

 

So, clearly, the blade was swapped at some point (especially since Dalinar feels uncomfortable carrying it, while Kaladin has no issues with Szeth's Honorblade).  I suspect it was Wit who did it, but I don't actually know.

 

Anyone see where the Honorblade went or know who has it? 

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm afraid I can't find the quote, but we know very little about the swap. We do know that it was swapped, and we know for sure Wit did not take it.

[Guest]

All the WoB's I've seen referencing the "missing" Honorblade, Brandon has responded with vagueness (things like "that's a good point, I wonder why that Blade screamed... anyone else have a question?)

My personal theory, with no evidence, is that the Shin swapped it.

[lidrevan]

Thought the wob was more like. Thats a good find. Wit most likely swapped it out. I believe thats current popular belief.

[Blightsong he/him]

Thought the wob was more like. Thats a good find. Wit most likely swapped it out. I believe thats current popular belief.

As someone above me said, WoB is that he for sure didnt

[Guest]

QUESTION

The Shardblade that Dalinar had at the end of Words of Radiance, was that the Honorblade?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Shardblade that Dalinar had at the end of Words of Radiance that he gave up?

QUESTION

Yeah, that he gave up.

BRANDON SANDERSONNo it was not.

QUESTION

It was not? So what happened to the Honorblade that the Herald had?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Nobody kno- Well, somebody knows, but it is not known to the main characters.

QUESTION

Can I ask if uh, Hoid-

BRANDON SANDERSON

If Hoid knows?

QUESTION

Yeah.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid did not take it, but I’m not answering whether he knows

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1115#33

Definitely not Hoid

[Oudeis he/him]

Thank you for finding the quote!

[Moogle]

I am contractually obliged to note that "Taln" did not have lighteyes, so it seems quite possible (and likely, even, to me) that the Blade he held wasn't even an Honorblade.

[Wyndrunner he/him]

 

 

I am contractually obliged to note that "Taln" did not have lighteyes, so it seems quite possible (and likely, even, to me) that the Blade he held wasn't even an Honorblade.

Yeah but Taln's order, The Stonewards have Brown as their color so Taln's eyes probably are the basis for their color scheme.

[natc]

Yeah but Taln's order, The Stonewards have Brown as their color so Taln's eyes probably are the basis for their color scheme.

Szeth's eyes bleed to sky blue, like a windrunner, whenever he summons Jezrien's honorblade. If radiant eye color after sufficient surgebinding matches Herald eye color, then it would be strange that one order would be darkeyed.

And let's be honest, the heralds are usually only present when the need for combat arises. They'll be seen with their blades more often than not. The very concept of a darkeyed herald seems nonexistent in Alethkar too.

On the other hand, fairly sure stoneward brown isn't that kind of brown.

[Kelek's Breath he/him]

If Radiants are an indication of what happens to Heralds, then:

1) In the Feverstone Keep vision, Dalinar sees the Stonewards' shardplate glowing amber

2) In his first vison in TWoK, he sees a woman shardbearer that glows amber, thus is a Stoneward, and her eyes are light tan.

Thus, Taln's eyes "should" be light tan, and the Stonewards colour is amber.

 

Now, 3 things are possibly going on:

1)we are being mislead by the visions so that when the Herald shows up we can doubt if he really is Taln, although he is.

2)Subtle hints are given so we can make the connections ourselves that he is not Taln.

3)The visions showed Dalinar Stonewards for a reason, so that he can make the connections about the so-called Herald, but he has not figured it out yet.

[DreamEternal]

4) Taln had his Honorblade swapped before going to Kholinar.

5) Taln was somehow forcibly unbound to his Honorblade, and they only change your eye color when you are bound to one of them. Explains why he just lugged it around instead of unsummoning it.

Unlikely, but who knows?

Edited July 3, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[Moogle]

Yeah but Taln's order, The Stonewards have Brown as their color so Taln's eyes probably are the basis for their color scheme.

 

As others have noted, the Stoneward's eyecolor is a light tan in visions, not a dark brown.

 

---

 

4) Taln had his Honorblade swapped before going to Kholinar.

5) Taln was somehow forcibly unbound to his Honorblade, and they only change your eye color when you are bound to one of them. Explsins why he just lugged it around instead of unsummoning it.

 

Honorblades work with anyone who holds them:

Macen

If someone is using an Honorblade, would they be able to bond a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

It is indeed possible.  It does not block it.  Good question.  You do not have to bond Honorblades.  Honorblades work with whoever holds them.

(source)

 

So I'm not sure on the 'unbonding' thing.

 

It's unlikely someone would swap the Blade if it were not a real Honorblade, so the theory that it wasn't a real Honorblade has problems.

[Oudeis he/him]

Moogle, we've discussed this many times before. There are a dozen W's-o-B about how a person uses the powers of an Honorblade, whether it's called a "Bond" or not and if it can happen by simply picking it up. It's a confused, muddled mess. Cherry-picking the quotes that support your theory without admitting there are many others which don't is insincere, and in the past month or so a lot of new faces have shown up who might not be aware of your particular relationship with whether or not a thing is true.

[Moogle]

...

 

There is certainly confusion on the matter of bonding Honorblades, but that WoB was not cherry-picked:

Question

If a non Windrunner picked up Jezrien's honorblade would they gain Windrunner powers as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Question

If a Windrunner picked up that blade, would their abilities be enhanced?

Brandon Sanderson

There would be some compounding but strength is not as much an issue with surgebinding as is the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using.

(source)

 

I also offer up Syl's words:

“Any man who holds this weapon will become a Windrunner,” Syl explained, looking back at Kaladin.

 

You could argue against the idea (perhaps Brandon is implicitly assuming someone bonds the Honorblade after they pick it up, and Syl is confused on matters), and I can accept it as a possible if quite unlikely interpretation, but I know of no conflicting WoBs specifically on the matter of whether or not just holding an Honorblade is enough to give you powers. When I have an in-text "fact" and multiple WoBs supporting a position, I tend to take something as confirmed unless there is a compelling argument to the contrary - which, so far, I have not seen.

 

It may be a personal failing of mine for not recalling any in our previous discussions on the subject. If you have any WoBs saying that you need to be bonded to an Honorblade to use its powers, or speculation on why such a thing is necessary Realmatically, I'd love to read a well-written post by you on the subject.

 

I don't enjoy theorizing in and of itself (I don't participate in character discussion threads, as I have little to no way to actually predict what's going to happen plot-wise with any accuracy), I like teasing out the truth of matters. The Cosmere, to me, is a chance to do some hobby-work performing "science", assembling Sanderson's jigsaw puzzle from a few broken pieces.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Moogle

[DreamEternal]

Perhaps they work with whoever holds them, but allowing surgebinding and changing eye color are not the same thing. Szeth's eyes change when he summons his blade, but no mention is made of them changing when he surgebinds with it unsummoned. Maybe you have to be bonded to gave eye color changes, but not to surgebind.

[Moogle]

Perhaps they work with whoever holds them, but allowing surgebinding and changing eye color are not the same thing. Szeth's eyes change when he summons his blade, but no mention is made of them changing when he surgebinds with it unsummoned. Maybe you have to be bonded to gave eye color changes, but not to surgebind.

 

This is entirely possible, though I'm not quite sure how you can even Surgebind without a bond, personally. Perhaps you automatically form a bond to the thing when you hold it...? But if that were the case, why would Szeth's eye color change only when he summons the Shardblade to hand? He's bonded to it at all times, so the presence of a bond doesn't really seem to indicate changed eye color.

 

On the other hand, though... bonding a dead Shardblade permanently alters your eye color.

 

SA3 spoilers:

Kaladin's eyes are also not permanently changed, it's only when he holds Stormlight or summons Syl (and then the change lasts a few hours). It confuses me, and I'm still trying to figure out a Realmatic explanation for it.

[Oudeis he/him]

Moogle, we've had a long, long debate on the subject, and I have no intention of falling into that rabbit hole yet again. I'm not going to post the same WoB I posted last time, only to hear your rationale just like I did last time why you post the WoB that agrees with you, but not the ones that don't. He's said one thing, then said another, sometimes saying that Honorblades cannot be bonded, "only given", other times saying sure, you can totally bond one.

 

W's-o-B on the subject are confusing and contradictory. So all you have is one brief comment made right at the end of a book by a woman who has enormous gaps in her memory. I would very much like to find out what exactly she meant by that sentence, but we certainly don't know enough to tell people, "This is entirely and completely the model for how it works."

 

"A man who holds Stormlight will heal from almost any injury." That's a true statement. Yet it doesn't just mean that if there are spheres in your hand, you're immortal. It is true, in context. Syl's statement is utterly devoid of context.

[Moogle]

...

 

As a request from me, then, can you post the WoB so at least other people can get the chance to see the contradictions you're speaking of? If I'm wrong, I'd like other people to know that I'm wrong. I promise I will not discuss the WoB or respond to it in this thread or by PM or anything. I'd just at least like to see it. We don't need to get into a long discussion on it.

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Tangent: In regards to the Bonding of an Honourblade, IIRC it was stated that Brandon misinterpreted the original question and said it wasn't possible, they can only be given in that particular WoB then later corrected himself and stated it was possible in later clarification of that same WoB (along with another WoB stating further clarification/confirmation that they can be Bonded a few days later). Both WoBs are located on Theoryland. As for the powers problem, hard to say anything definitive seeing as we've only had slight descriptions in book of Honourblades plus their bonds and ?bondees? 

 

Main topic question: As for the "Taln's" Honourblade, we don't quite know if it was truly him/some doppelganger/Crazy Ned/someone believing they're him etc. etc. so between all of the Taln appearances, there is a serious Cluedo mystery going on. Was it even confirmed in "Taln's" appearances that the original blade he held was in fact an Honorblade?

Edited July 3, 2015 by ParadoxSpren

[Moogle]

Main topic question: As for the "Taln's" Honourblade, we don't quite know if it was truly him/some doppelganger/Crazy Ned/someone believing they're him etc. etc. so between all of the Taln appearances, there is a serious Cluedo mystery going on. Was it even confirmed in "Taln's" appearances that the original blade he held was in fact an Honorblade?

 

It's never been confirmed to my knowledge that the original spike-like Blade that "Taln" had was an Honorblade.

 

Of course, if it wasn't, why would someone have swapped it? (And if it was, why no eye color change?)

 

The entire thing is a very interesting mystery. The way Taln moved all super-speed to catch darts implies he's got something supernatural going on, so he's probably a Herald. Other than that, everything seems unlikely.

 

My current extremely-unlikely theory is that "Taln" was not in fact holding an Honorblade, but someone thought it was an Honorblade and swapped the Blades. I wish there was a better theory.