Haelbarde he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) I don't know this for a fact, but I believe the original phrase (in old Hebrew?) is "six ages," not "six days." Then translation happened. Yeah, the word translated day can be used to refer to an age, this is true. The first place "six days" is used in reference to the creation is in Exodus 20:11. In Genesis 1, only talks about each day individually. The same word for day is used however. Assuming that was trying to point out that it allows for each day to be an extended period of time. My response to that is that on 'day' 4 (Genesis 1:16-18), it says that the sun and moon are set to divide day from night. A day night cycle for us today is 24 hours. I don't think there is any reason to suggested that the length of the day would have changed in any meaningful way. The word day is the same word that could mean age. Implies that at least for days 4-7 are 24 hour days, and so then it'd suggest the first 3 days are too. Edit: It is not my intention to start any argument, and so if people want to continue this particular discussion but feel it has the potential to get heated, feel free to PM me to continue the discussion. Edited July 10, 2015 by Haelbarde
Argent he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 A day night cycle for us today is 24 hours. I don't think there is any reason to suggested that the length of the day would have changed in any meaningful way. The word day is the same word that could mean age. Implies that at least for days 4-7 are 24 hour days, and so then it'd suggest the first 3 days are too. The length of the day-night cycle actually did change. It was about 23 hours some 350 million years ago. Soon after the Earth formed it could've been as quick as 6 hours. Not that I think this is relevant to this particular conversation, but it's a fun bit of trivia.
Kaymyth she/her Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The length of the day-night cycle actually did change. It was about 23 hours some 350 million years ago. Soon after the Earth formed it could've been as quick as 6 hours. Not that I think this is relevant to this particular conversation, but it's a fun bit of trivia. The Moon has a big role in this. It used to be a lot closer to the Earth than it is now, and is slowly receding out. As it gets farther away, it bleeds off a little bit of Earth's rotational speed. The days are, very slowly, getting longer and longer. This is why we have to sneak in leap seconds now and then. I think that he was talking about his local leaders, Bishop level ish I assume, not the Apostles or First Presidency. If not, than I guess I misread, but that was the impression I got, and imperfect Bishops definitely happen. I, too, had the impression that he was talking about specific people, who for obvious reasons he didn't want to outright name. I think this is a good time to point out to folks that we're all human, here. We have all had very different experiences with religious leaders and/or churches. It's worth noting that for some of us, those experiences were highly negative. Religion, by its very nature, evokes a strong emotional response in people. For some, it's quite positive, but for others, those experiences left psychological and spiritual wounds behind. If someone says something that you personally find offensive, please take a moment to think about why they might have said what they did. They may very well be speaking from a place of profound pain, and even taking the intiative to say what they did opened up an old scar for poking and prodding. They are showing you this thing of theirs that hurts. Please try not to have your first reaction be to poke it with a sharp stick. 7
navybrandt he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 The Moon has a big role in this. It used to be a lot closer to the Earth than it is now, and is slowly receding out. As it gets farther away, it bleeds off a little bit of Earth's rotational speed. The days are, very slowly, getting longer and longer. This is why we have to sneak in leap seconds now and then. Joke: I know what killed off the dinosaurs then. The huge tidal wave that destroyed all life on earth every high tide from the moon being so close.
Kobold King he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Joke: I know what killed off the dinosaurs then. The huge tidal wave that destroyed all life on earth every high tide from the moon being so close. My parents always joked that the dinosaurs went extinct because God went to the bathroom, and when he came back he found all the dinosaurs dead and He had to start the earth over with all the leftover mammals. 1
Blaze1616 he/him Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 My parents always joked that the dinosaurs went extinct because God went to the bathroom, and when he came back he found all the dinosaurs dead and He had to start the earth over with all the leftover mammals. That's terrifying. Hopefully He won't need to go again anytime soon... 2
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) @Voidus If discovering that abiogenesis was completely impossible would not affect your atheism, what would? Just curious... @Argent Yay! Another person to add to my PM! Edited July 10, 2015 by Guest
Voidus Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 @Voidus If discovering that abiogenesis was completely impossible would not affect your atheism, what would? Just curious... @Argent Yay! Another person to add to my PM! Conclusive proof that the god of the bible/quran/torah/Illiad exists exactly as described.
Vauhsoj he/him Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 I am thoroughly impressed with this topic! I have seen religious debates on a Christian forum turn somewhat sour, so 12 pages of civil discussion between people of very different beliefs is awesome! I just joined 17S, and this thread really solidified in my mind how amazing you all are. Reading through this thread has given me a new understanding and appreciation for the wide variety of beliefs (or lack thereof) that are in the world. To be more on-topic, I am a Christian in a Reformed Presbyterian church. (OPC, actually, if that means anything to you) 2
Mistrunner Posted July 12, 2015 Posted July 12, 2015 In response to my response to kaellok's post, see my edit to said post. I misunderstood and took offense where there was none to take, and I apologize. On another note, this discussion has given me a lot of respect for different religions/beliefs! I would've been afraid to ask some of the questions I've had about different religions other places on the internet, but I've had them answered here very understandably (I am definitely no theologian; I don't get the fancy jargon a lot of religious stuff comes packaged in) and without any heated debates, though there have been some thoughtful and respectful ones (more of discussion, really). You're all amazing, and whatever you believe, I wish you happiness with it! Have a brownie. 2
Voidus Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 In response to my response to kaellok's post, see my edit to said post. I misunderstood and took offense where there was none to take, and I apologize. On another note, this discussion has given me a lot of respect for different religions/beliefs! I would've been afraid to ask some of the questions I've had about different religions other places on the internet, but I've had them answered here very understandably (I am definitely no theologian; I don't get the fancy jargon a lot of religious stuff comes packaged in) and without any heated debates, though there have been some thoughtful and respectful ones (more of discussion, really). You're all amazing, and whatever you believe, I wish you happiness with it! Have a brownie. Are you trying to muscle in on the Dark Alleys baking racket? Last time that happened was... unpleasant.
Mistrunner Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Are you trying to muscle in on the Dark Alleys baking racket? Last time that happened was... unpleasant. ...Only normal, flour-butter-cocoa-sugar brownies from me. I don't do spikes. Though I don't really have a choice, not having allomantically pure invested spikes lying around the house. It's quite the tragedy. 1
Voidus Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 ...Only normal, flour-butter-cocoa-sugar brownies from me. I don't do spikes. Though I don't really have a choice, not having allomantically pure invested spikes lying around the house. It's quite the tragedy. If you're ever looking for more ingredients the Dark Alley is always looking for new recruits.
kaellok he/him Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 ...Only normal, flour-butter-cocoa-sugar brownies from me. I don't do spikes. Though I don't really have a choice, not having allomantically pure invested spikes lying around the house. It's quite the tragedy. You should toss in white and dark chocolate chips, along with some walnuts. That makes for some crazy good brownies. And yeah, remarkably little offense given or taken, and from what I've seen even when it was, the response was still respectful. Which is as important. It's hard to know what will give offense, whether you are ignorant and wanting to know more, or sharing negative experiences you've had to people who have largely only seen the positives. I've always been struck by how, for the most part, the people on 17th Shard assume that others are worthy of respect, and give it to them. It makes for a rather nice corner of the Internet to hang out. 2
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted August 1, 2015 Posted August 1, 2015 I'm a bit of a strange, contradictory/conflicting one (a bit of...paradox if you will) ) I utilise several different ideologies, philisophies, concepts/ideas/ideals so i put other but 'Spiritual but not Religious' can suffice. I have pagan/buddhist influences combined with scientific ideas and philosophical viewpoints; predominantly nihilism, cosmic indifference and even (to an extent) Brandon's Realmatic Theory and FMA's Alchemy's All is One/One is All. I don't particularly believe in Omnipotent/Omnipresent/Omniscient deities or deities in general (i take an atheist's point of view on this) but i think there is...a kind of fundamental underlying force that is beyond our comprehension that isn't necessarily alive/dead/Aware but encompasses/is the literal embodiment of everything that is this universe (It ties in with my one of my original sci-fi fantasy stories and is in fact the basis of the story) My views are longwinded so if anyone wants to know more you can PM me if you wish, i don't mind explaining (preferably with questions, cause i luff me some tangents)
The Honor Spren she/her Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 . . . This thread has been dead for a while, but I thought maybe since we have some new people here, maybe we could start it up again?
Mashadar Mistborn he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 It works for me, and though I'm not really new, I wasn't around with this thread. I'll start. I'm an atheist.
Arraenae Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I'm atheist, and I grew up in a (mostly) atheist family. My mom says she's Christian, but she doesn't go to church or talk about it much with the rest of my family. To be honest, I don't think I've ever really given religions much of a chance. I like my current mindset. Changing it would be scary. I've never really looked into religions, so most of my religious knowledge comes from brief, distorted mentions from the media. I've read a book advocating Christianity, and I agreed with the points made against atheism, but not with the points made for Christianity. I suppose I'm in the "disbelief until proven" camp, for now, at least.
Patar he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 When I saw this thread pop up, I immediately thought, Oh jeez, let's see how this goes. I should've known better, this is the Shard, after all. This was said multiple times, but this has been an absolute pleasure to read through. A quick note: Being an atheist in a relatively Christian community, I tend not to talk about religion to much. It just feels... kinda awkward to me. Since I'm not used to discussing it, if some of what I say doesn't seem to make sense or seems scattered, sorry. I really hope this doesn't offend anyone. I don't think it will, since this is a very mature community, but if it does, I really am sorry. On the topic of changing mindsets, here is a bit of my story. I was raised Catholic. Went to church (just about) every Sunday, attended classes over the Summer, all that stuff. As I grew older, it just... didn't feel right to me. It was then, I was maybe fifteen or so, that I thought really hard about what I believed and who I was. It took me MONTHS to do. It was probably one of the hardest things that I've ever done, going against what I was raised to believe for fifteen years. And in the end, I decided that I didn't believe. That being said, I don't have a problem with religion at all. I find them fascinating. I'm taking a History of World Religion course this semester, and I'm really looking forward to it! I do want to put my input into the atheist and agnostic discussion. I see an atheist as someone who firmly believes that there is no god, while someone who is agnostic is more of a skeptic; they don't believe that there is enough information one way or another, so they chose to not take a stance on the whole issue (that's just the way I see it). While I can't say with 100% certainty that there is no god, I definitely lean one way. Anyways, that's just my take on the matter. I love how civil this discussion has been (despite not being active for a few months). If it does pick back up, I hope it stays as mature as if was a few months ago 1
Seonid he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Yeah, the Shard is awesome like this! I've watched or participated in discussions on American politics, religion, evolution, gender identity, and a host of other potentially controversial subjects, and the tone has been consistently respectful, kind, and sincere, even when strong disagreements have been present. The only place this doesn't hold is with Stormlight Archive ships... 1
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 When I saw this thread pop up, I immediately thought, Oh jeez, let's see how this goes. I should've known better, this is the Shard, after all. This was said multiple times, but this has been an absolute pleasure to read through. A quick note: Being an atheist in a relatively Christian community, I tend not to talk about religion to much. It just feels... kinda awkward to me. Since I'm not used to discussing it, if some of what I say doesn't seem to make sense or seems scattered, sorry. I really hope this doesn't offend anyone. I don't think it will, since this is a very mature community, but if it does, I really am sorry. On the topic of changing mindsets, here is a bit of my story. I was raised Catholic. Went to church (just about) every Sunday, attended classes over the Summer, all that stuff. As I grew older, it just... didn't feel right to me. It was then, I was maybe fifteen or so, that I thought really hard about what I believed and who I was. It took me MONTHS to do. It was probably one of the hardest things that I've ever done, going against what I was raised to believe for fifteen years. And in the end, I decided that I didn't believe. That being said, I don't have a problem with religion at all. I find them fascinating. I'm taking a History of World Religion course this semester, and I'm really looking forward to it! I do want to put my input into the atheist and agnostic discussion. I see an atheist as someone who firmly believes that there is no god, while someone who is agnostic is more of a skeptic; they don't believe that there is enough information one way or another, so they chose to not take a stance on the whole issue (that's just the way I see it). While I can't say with 100% certainty that there is no god, I definitely lean one way. Anyways, that's just my take on the matter. I love how civil this discussion has been (despite not being active for a few months). If it does pick back up, I hope it stays as mature as if was a few months ago I've found that the Shard breaks every negative rule of the internet, and does it with a spring in its step and a song in its heart. One of the many reasons I love this place. It's nice to be the oddball token neopagan and not have a bunch of people quietly trying to sidle away from me. Yeah, the Shard is awesome like this! I've watched or participated in discussions on American politics, religion, evolution, gender identity, and a host of other potentially controversial subjects, and the tone has been consistently respectful, kind, and sincere, even when strong disagreements have been present. The only place this doesn't hold is with Stormlight Archive ships... Sadeas + Chasmfiend = OTP. I'm just sayin'. 4
Mistrunner Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I've found that the Shard breaks every negative rule of the internet, and does it with a spring in its step and a song in its heart. One of the many reasons I love this place. It's nice to be the oddball token neopagan and not have a bunch of people quietly trying to sidle away from me. Quite the opposite, really- we named you Forum Mom.
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Quite the opposite, really- we named you Forum Mom. I know, right? Silly people. I can change my member title, but I can never escape being the Mom.
Silverblade5 he/him Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 I know, right? Silly people. I can change my member title, but I can never escape being the Mom. Someone has to be the adult around here
Zathoth Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 And it is sure as damnation not the admins XD I am really horrible at this making my mind up thing, I am an atheist, nihilist, Discordian, agnostic, I used to be a Laveyan Satanist, but I dont like following the dogmas others make up, I still think he had some interesting points though. Oh and I started The Church of Wayne. The jokes I make and the stories I write are related to what I believe, the universe is uncaring and absurd, there is no meaning other than the one we create and all that. So, Lovecraft was right, I think is what I am trying to say. I have a very annoying habit to question everything, how I havent had a great existential breakdown yet is a question for the ages. I think pragmatism is my religion in a way, what is useful is good, what is hurtful is bad. So, hello, I am a collection of chemicals and electrical impulses that creates a delusion of awareness, existence and worth placed on a oxygen covered rock orbiting a giant nuclear explosion. I do always get the feeling that forests have an awareness though, and I do not think death is the end, whatever that means. That was another rant that was only vaguely related to the topic brought to you by Morzathoth. Have a nice day everyone. 2
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