Proposal: Switching some boards around

[Kurkistan]

Hello. Since we're already doing some overhauling, I'd like to lodge a few suggestions for how stuff should be organized.

First of all, I've come to the conclusion that TES and Elantris oughtn't to be the same section. Yes, they're on the same planet, but, honestly Elantris and WoK (Galladon) are probably more connected than Elantris and TES, in any real sense. I'm not sure how to resolve this, since TES isn't really big enough to go out in the wild on its own, but I've had some thoughts...

On that note, I would suggest that we reinforce the firm divide between Cosmere and non-Cosmere books. Currently the "Other Stuff" section has sub-boards for Alcatraz, The Rithmatist, and Steelheart, with the caption "Discuss any of Brandon's shorter works here, be they novellas, short stories, or even YA. If it's not Epic Fantasy, it belongs here."

Normally, I'd say we should throw TES in this section, since it isn't Epic, really, and definitely a shorter work. But then we have the Cosmere problem.

To that end, I'd suggest that another section be created--called "Other Cosmere," or something similar--to house TES and any future short stories or novellas that don't fall inside the remit of any other Shardworlds' real arcs. So Shadows For Silence in the Forests of Hell would go in there too when it's released.

As a side note, I think we might benefit from a simple "Short Stories" section in "Other Stuff" to house discussion for Firstborn, Defending Elysium, I Hate Dragons, and anything that follows. I doubt it will matter or that we'll get more than a thread or two on any of them, but it's the principle of the thing!

I don't mean to be presumptuous here, and thanks for going through all this trouble in the first place, but I wanted to get some changes in while the foundations were still being worked on.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

While we're at it, can we put in some sticky threads for frequently asked questions? The 'rule of 16 mist snapping' question, for instance, comes up in mistborn rather frequently, and having a sticky thread with the relevant quotes would be handy.

[Chaos]

Kurk, you definitely do bring up some valid points. I need to think about those. However, I do at least want to mention why I grouped TES and Elantris: because their magics are clearly related. We've had topics to that regard as well, even with your Region Locked Magic thread there. If that board was split, it would be hard for me to determine where those threads go. The logic there was that 1. The Elantris board hadn't gotten much discussion (go figure, there hasn't been a new book in that world in forever), so TES could enhance discussion there, and 2. Maybe people would come up with some interesting threads relating the two.

I'm definitely not trying to sound dismissive, because your ideas are good, I just wanted to tell you about my rationale there. I personally think that in general, less boards is more, and less subforums is even better. (For example, since the Other Stuff forum allows for posts, I think Short Stories can just be posted there. A subforum would be mostly superfluous.) An Other Cosmere board, however, would be a good home for Shadows for Silence, which admittedly hadn't occurred to me before. But we have time to hash out Shadows for Silence, that's for sure

I'm curious, why do you feel TES and Elantris should be split? Because I really do associate the two together, and their magics do complement each other. I wanna hear your thoughts there, and I really appreciate the input.

While we're at it, can we put in some sticky threads for frequently asked questions? The 'rule of 16 mist snapping' question, for instance, comes up in mistborn rather frequently, and having a sticky thread with the relevant quotes would be handy.

That is definitely something we should do! Probably a sticky topic in each main board for FAQs on each subject, or something.

[Meg]

While we're at it, can we put in some sticky threads for frequently asked questions? The 'rule of 16 mist snapping' question, for instance, comes up in mistborn rather frequently, and having a sticky thread with the relevant quotes would be handy.

That is definitely something we should do! Probably a sticky topic in each main board for FAQs on each subject, or something.

Please don't feel annoyed. Though I see that making some threads sticky I personally would prefer one sticky thread with links to the potential FAQ-threads. I tend to be confused if a board/forum starts with (overstated) half of its first page having sticky threads.

Is this understandable? :/

[Chaos]

Yeah, I feel having one sticky thread of FAQs per forum is the way to go there.

[Kurkistan]

@Chaos

Now that you say it, I get your motivations for keeping TES and Elantris together. The magic systems are related, and that gives some ground for discussion. The reason I said they should be split is because that's the only thing that relates them (besides Easter eggs, essentially). And even that only tangentially.

Should Dragonsteel The Liar of Partinel share a board with the Stormlight Archive when it comes out? They'll both have Lightweaving. What about the Silence Divine? Same star system, and the same Shards (I think). I can understand the specific rationale for mashing together those two books in particular, but it isn't a clear-cut road we're treading on. I'm not saying that you would mash those other series together, but your reasons to do so for Elantris/TES and not do so for the others are rather thin.

Imagine a more clear scenario: Say that Brandon suddenly became very very lazy, and so decided to make Allomancy and Feruchemy (now called Alloymancy and Ironchemy) the magics in his next YA series, Mythborn. There's no Realmatic-justification for it; Brandon even says outright that it's not a Cosmere book. But he also says that Alloymancy and Ironchemy work in the same way as Allomancy and Feruchemy. So we have grounds for magic discussion, and may even discover some very interesting things about the Cosmere because of Mythborn. Should those two be on the same board? No, I don't think they should. We have two fundamentally different series with different characters, different lore, and different stories set on essentially different worlds that happen to share some Cosmere-relevant magical similarities.

The problem is complicated by focuses of discussion. If this weren't a theory-based forum, then TES and Elantris would have exactly nothing in common worth talking about. As with Mythborn, we'd have different characters, different scales, and different challenges and goals (yes, I do like the word "different"). The only thing connecting them would be the author. The boards would have some discussions about characters and story arcs, a frightening amount of romance discussion, and other such stuff, all different between the two books (except the romance stuff, probably, but that really can't be helped ).

As my final verdict (because I am totally a judge), I can agree with TES sharing a board with Elantris because of the unique circumstances surrounding these two books (Elantris' loneliness and TES's length) and the specific character of our forum. Elantris needed some love and most of our interesting discussion was inevitably going to come out of comparing the two, specifically their magic systems. But, as a general rule, I don't think we should be afraid of "orphaning" works which are technically connected to existing series. An "Other Cosmere" section would be a good home for them.

Looking back, I don't think we necessarily disagree much, and this isn't meant to be a "you are WRONG, Chaos!" post. I just want to get my thoughts on this out there. I agree with your reasons for the current setup of the forums.

---

I agree, as a general rule, on the evils of an overabundance of sub-fora. I guess I got a bit carried away there . I hereby grant you my leave to leave the "Other Stuff" section the way it is.

I do stand by my suggestion suggest that we add some indication of its non-Cosmereical nature, though. Maybe just throw something into the description.

EDIT:

Yeah, I feel having one sticky thread of FAQs per forum is the way to go there.

Not to toot my own horn here, but I have some small experience with that sort of stuff (better version here, though with ads), if you want advice/help. The most important things, off the top of my head, is to impress the need for people to come to you, as well as encourage people to post guides, no matter how large or small, whenever they feel they can explain something well.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner]

I am firmly in the camp that The Emperor's Soul and Elantris stay in the same forum. It seems that Kurk has acquiesced to this already, but I would like to make one point. While TES and Elantris may seem only tangentially related at the present time, I think they'll become heavily connected as the future two Elantris books come out. With a nation that could challenge the Fjordell Empire and two largely unexplored magic systems just sitting there, I can't see Brandon not using them in the next few books. Stuff like how the MaiPon and the Jindoeese separated has been RAFO'd for future books. I think this could eventually become as connected to the main Elantris trilogy as Alloy is connected to the Mistborn trilogy.

I think a general cosmere short story subforum could be useful one day, perhaps once more have come out. Right now it would be looking like the Eleventh Metal, Hope of Elantris, and Shadows for Silence. Two of those can be discussed for now in their larger forums. I think that any topics for SfS could do quite nicely in the main cosmere board or other stuff until a larger group has been built up.

That being said, I don't personally object to a more clear division between cosmere and non-cosmere books. I don't know how feasible that is from a forum building perspective though.

[Meg]

Yeah, I feel having one sticky thread of FAQs per forum is the way to go there.

 

 

As now the FAQ-project is started may I suggest to make the Solicitation-threads sticky in each (sub)forum (I never know the exact word)? 

[PhilV]

In addition to FAQs, how about including acronyms/abbreviations, as well as Frequently Proposed Theories? (FPTs)

[Rubix]

In addition to FAQs, how about including acronyms/abbreviations, as well as Frequently Proposed Theories? (FPTs)

 

I'd be fine with including SOME acronyms, such as book titles (TFE, WoA, HoA, WoK, WoR, TES), but other than those, I feel like acronyms are unnecessary. Also, they lead to more and more confusion as we get new people who everyone just assumes that they get our acronyms. If you've got a term you're planning to use heavily in a post, such as faster than light, the first time you use it, type it as Faster Than Light (FTL), then use it going forward in your post.

 

As for frequently proposed theories, I don't feel like theories have ANY place in our FAQ's, as they are to be a knowledge source for new members or those wanting a reminder of what we know. I don't want them turning into a list of supposition, unless I see good arguments that change my mind.

[PhilV]

I'd be fine with including SOME acronyms, such as book titles (TFE, WoA, HoA, WoK, WoR, TES), but other than those, I feel like acronyms are unnecessary. Also, they lead to more and more confusion as we get new people who everyone just assumes that they get our acronyms. If you've got a term you're planning to use heavily in a post, such as faster than light, the first time you use it, type it as Faster Than Light (FTL), then use it going forward in your post.

 

As for frequently proposed theories, I don't feel like theories have ANY place in our FAQ's, as they are to be a knowledge source for new members or those wanting a reminder of what we know. I don't want them turning into a list of supposition, unless I see good arguments that change my mind.

 

Yeah, I was mostly thinking of Brandon- or Cosmere-related acronyms. Books titles as well as other terms like TLR. Most of them should be obvious, unless they're not :]

 

As for frequently proposed theories: I suppose I haven't lurked enough to know how often people come in and say, "hey, I've got this great theory," only to be reponded to with "yep, we talked about that a few years ago, see this thread..."

[Kurkistan]

You know what, we could use and acronym list. Would you be so kind as to get on that, Phil? Maybe just post the whole thing in the Cosmere section.

 

As far as theories go, I plan to be very very careful with those. Hoid wrote the letter, maybe Shardic Future Sight, but nothing that isn't essentially all-but-confirmed and/or nigh unimpeachable.

[PhilV]

I didn't actually come up with that many acronyms (mostly just book titles) that I think are mostly self-explanatory. I can still post the list, I might have missed some.

[Kurkistan]

Anything would help. The threads are looking a bit barren at the moment...