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Does Splintering a Shard have an effect on Shadesmar?


b4dave

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I have been going over the forums, and have found multiple references to Shadesmar being difficult to access from Sel. Now, as far as I can tell, Sel is the only world that has had its Shards Splintered, so I was wondering if perhaps there was a correlation, that Shadesmar went all wonky in that area because the main source of power, Devotion and Dominion were killed and Splintered

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I was just recently rereading Elantris when I got to the bit where Galladon explains what the Dor is to Raoden. From the way he describes it, it sounds an awful lot like the Dor is at least partially based in the Cognitive Realm, and is quite chaotic/powerful at the same time. We also know that Shadesmar is based in the Cognitive Realm.

My guess would be that the power and chaos of the Dor affect world-hoppers' ability to access it from Shadesmar. The Splintering of Devotion and Dominion probably also have a hand it it, though my two cents is on the Dor's power.

Edited by Mexxell
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I always figured it has more to do with the death of the Shardbearers than the actual splintering of the Shard, although I suppose the splintering means no one else can take it up either. Since the Shardholder provides the cognitive aspect for a Shard the lack of that must affect the cognitive realm in that area.

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We apparently got a clue in WoK as to why Sel's region of Shadesmar is dangerous. It could be simple rouge beings or it could be that Splintered Shards in particular are dangerous. Here are some of my thoughts on this:

Windrunner: Something grabs Shallan's leg in the sea of beads, but she's rescued by Jasnah before it can get her.

So I guess that Splinters of either Dominion or Devotion (probably Dominion) are chilling about in the Cognitive Realm near Sel trying to eat people. That's good to know.

^Shadesmar's "landscape" could be shaped by Shards, I suppose. We know that Sel's region is particularly dangerous because of the Splinterings, so less catastrophic Shardic events could also have an impact.

Q: You said to not travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Is this a consequence of Odium Splintering Aona and Skai?

A: It is indirectly related to the splintering. There is a clue to why it is dangerous in Way of Kings.

Actually, forgive me if this has already been said and/or is off-topic, but it occurs to me that the "clue" we get in WoK (something grabbing Shallan's leg in Shadesmar) might be that Honor's Splintering also made Shadesmar dangerous on Roshar, so raw Spiritual power being flung around might be dangerous regardless of what Shard it originally belonged to.

Although I should have said "raw Shardic power", not "Spiritual".

Edited by Kurkistan
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There is another option as to why Shadesmar is so screwed up.

""Yes." Svrakiss. The souls of the dead men who hated Jaddeth, the opponents to

all that was holy. According to Shu-Dereth, there was nothing more bitter than

a soul who had had its chance and thrown it away."-Elantris

The souls of the dead, corrupted in some scheme of Odium's. Brandon has mentioned I believe that if souls refuse to pass on they can hang around in the cognitive realm in reference to Kelsier or Vin and Elend.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=727#50

You may want to note that the moment Preservation dropped out and let the last of his consciousness die, someone was waiting in the Cognitive Realm to seize the power and hold on for a short period until Vin could take it up more fully. You'll find him using it to whisper in moments of great stress in the book, to one person in specific in two places. (I'll bet someone on here has already found them.)

He never could just let things well enough alone....

Footnote

The person Brandon mentions is Spook. After the spike is removed, Kelsier prompts him to send the letter to Vin, and then prompts him to send people underground.

Edited by Nepene
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  • 2 weeks later...

I seized on the moment to ask a question I've wanted to know for a while now.

This is an awesome answer!

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Thanks!

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

Source

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I can't believe he actually answered that, wow.

Not just that!

Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.
Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...
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I seized on the moment to ask a question I've wanted to know for a while now.

This is an awesome answer!

If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

Thanks!

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.

Source

Ok, the Kelsier bit I assume is to do with him trashing the Pits, but the Spren comment... could it be that, as Seons contain a Splinter of Devotion, Spren contain a Splinter of Honour? I think 'Spren are Splinters' was debunked, but theres obviously something going on there

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Ok, the Kelsier bit I assume is to do with him trashing the Pits, but the Spren comment... could it be that, as Seons contain a Splinter of Devotion, Spren contain a Splinter of Honour? I think 'Spren are Splinters' was debunked, but theres obviously something going on there

The Kelsier bit is about Kelsier taking up some guidance over Preservation for a little while at the end of HoA. Spren are a mixture of Honor and Cultiavtion, and don't really have any "nucleus" similar to Seons'. We also know that spren were (probably) around before Honor's death, so Honor would have had to splinter himself on purpose for that to work.

I think that this quote tells us that, not only are Spren created by those two, but they are also Invested with some amount of their power and/or intent. It could also be that Spren simply have a natural affinity to Honor's power, and so started to bleed off the excess once he died, as opposed to being initially invested with the lion's share of his power. Or some point between those two extremes.

EDIT: Sorry, I read your post wrong the first time. I suppose I can see Spren "attracting" Splinters of Honor once he died, though I still think it's a more generalized "release valve" like Brandon said.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Actually, the latest few reddit responses are leading me to consider the possibility that there might be non-shard-based magic sources.

Of course I could be reading WAY too much into this but...

"In all of the cosmere's Shard-based magics, the greater portion of a bisected body regrows the lesser portion" opens up the possibility of non-Shard-based magics. And if odium is leaving some extra power on Sel that isn't his...

I think our 'shards seen' count is up to date. Unless he dropped off a chunk of one of the other shards we already saw, it has to be some other source of power.

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"In all of the cosmere's Shard-based magics, the greater portion of a bisected body regrows the lesser portion" opens up the possibility of non-Shard-based magics. And if odium is leaving some extra power on Sel that isn't his...

I think our 'shards seen' count is up to date. Unless he dropped off a chunk of one of the other shards we already saw, it has to be some other source of power.

I imagine that the extra power is just the leftover Shardic power from the 2 Shards he Splintered, lacking a controlling force as Kelsier did for Preservations power.

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It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.
Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...

Whilst I'm not discounting the possibility, nothing about the quotes given necessitates that Odium left behind anything but the now directionless power of Devotion and Dominion. I'm calling Occam's Razor for now.

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Don't currently have a copy of Elantris, would you be able to quote the relevant passage?

Here is the explanation from when Raoden begins to understand it better, based on the description from Galladon, along with books he finds:

He began to grasp the theory of AonDor. The Dor was as Galladon had described it: a powerful reservoir just beyond the normal senses. Its only desire was to escape. The books explained that the Dor existed in a place that was full of pressure, and so the energy pushed its way through any viable exit, moving from an area of high concentration to one of low.

However, because of the Dor's nature, it could enter the physical world only through gates of the proper size and shape. Elantrians could create rifts with their drawings, providing a means for the Dor to escape. and those drawings would determine what form the energy took when it appeared. However, if even one line was of the wrong proportion, the Dor would be unable to enter-like a square trying to force its way through a round hole. Some theorists described the process using unfamiliar words like "frequency" and "pulse length."

- Elantris Ch. 28

I will have to do some further searching through part 1 of Elantris to find the part where Raoden and Galladon have the initial conversation about Dor.

Edited by BlairJ
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