Running a Warbreaker/Mistborn crossover

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Not sure if this is the proper forum exactly, but it doesn't really fit anywhere else.

Anyway, I'm currently running a RP for a friend doing a blind run through Mistborn. Basically, dumped in with no prior knowledge about the setting, since what's the fun of having a world with a ton of secrets if you already know them, eh? And, since he's the type of guy who always picks 'other' when presented with options, he's wound up playing an Awakener.

Current time in game has advanced, and it's about a month or so is left before the Lord Ruler's death OTL. It doesn't seem like enough divergences have been kicked off to prevent it from happening. It's currently the day before the Last Ball happens, if that helps.

Long story short, the player character (Acolyte Obligator Stellan) has been fumbling through an investigation of one of the noble murders committed by our friendly neighrborhood Survivor, and desperately trying to hide or get a handle on his newly discovered Biochromatic Breath. Now, I've already established a lot of the magic system interactions already for this game, but I figured it would be nice to get some help fleshing out things further.

Anyway, current things I've decided upon:

- While nobody native to Scandriel has a 'real' Breath, they've still got a bit of soul or spiritweb or whatever that acts similarly. Thus, they show up on lifesense.

- Canonically, nobody on Scandriel can Awaken, even if they got Breath transferred to them. I'm leaning on Sanderson's exact wording here, and ruling that passing a Breath from person to person doesn't really count as 'awakening' - it doesn't drain color canonically, so there's a bit of a distinction there already.

- While they don't have a real Breath, you can leverage the little bit of Ruin inside the guy and rip a chunk of his soul off. The miniBreath produced is about a tenth the size of a normal Breath, and can be used normally... if ineffectively.

- The trauma caused by the soul-splitting process is always enough to snap someone; unlike the mists, which were hardcoded to snap a fixed percent of the population, this just drags out all the allomantic power someone is naturally endowed with. And leaves them in a temporary coma.

- Any drabs produced this way are more susceptible to Ruin. Not like, spike-level, but it's easier to slant their decisions.

-Mistwraiths don't show up to lifesense, due to the same blockage between the cognitive any physical realm that keeps them nonsapient. Kandra, on the other hand, show up normally.

-Having a Breath reserve is enough to provide some passive resistance against soothing/rioting, much like a coppercloud. A full Divine Breath is equivalent to modern copper mistings.

-Nothing that's got any Investiture can be used as color fuel for Awakening - the only real standout here is the black volcanic ash, though metalminds and spikes would count as well. I'm toying with the idea that the traces of Ruin in the ash can be used to steal a bigger chunk to use as a miniBreath (with corresponding greater , but not sure on that bit.

That said, there's still some interactions that I haven't come up with a good reason for. I'm going to the signing tonight, and I figure I might as well ask questions relevant to it.

So far I'm planning on asking Brandon about what happens when you stick a Breath into a mistwraith at the signing. It seems like it could turn out being cool.

I can probably ask another as well... what do you guys think would be relevant? I'm tempted to make it 'can you hemalurge by using a wooden stake full of Breath', but I sure somebody on here has a more interesting one.

[Kurkistan]

Not sure if this is the proper forum exactly, but it doesn't really fit anywhere else.

Anyway, I'm currently running a RP for a friend doing a blind run through Mistborn. Basically, dumped in with no prior knowledge about the setting, since what's the fun of having a world with a ton of secrets if you already know them, eh? And, since he's the type of guy who always picks 'other' when presented with options, he's wound up playing an Awakener.

Current time in game has advanced, and it's about a month or so is left before the Lord Ruler's death OTL. It doesn't seem like enough divergences have been kicked off to prevent it from happening. It's currently the day before the Last Ball happens, if that helps.

Long story short, the player character (Acolyte Obligator Stellan) has been fumbling through an investigation of one of the noble murders committed by our friendly neighrborhood Survivor, and desperately trying to hide or get a handle on his newly discovered Biochromatic Breath. Now, I've already established a lot of the magic system interactions already for this game, but I figured it would be nice to get some help fleshing out things further.

Cool. I'll see if I can help you out, although be warned that this is all my own opinion. I'll comment on things I find iffy or interesting.

- While nobody native to Scandriel has a 'real' Breath, they've still got a bit of soul or spiritweb or whatever that acts similarly. Thus, they show up on lifesense.

That sounds right-ish. The prevailing opinion (which I strongly support) is that people on Nalthis are essentially the same as people everywhere else, but Endowment enabled them to split off part of their souls. So everyone on Scadrial has a "Breath", they just can't use BioChroma to do anything with it.

- While they don't have a real Breath, you can leverage the little bit of Ruin inside the guy and rip a chunk of his soul off. The miniBreath produced is about a tenth the size of a normal Breath, and can be used normally... if ineffectively.

- The trauma caused by the soul-splitting process is always enough to snap someone; unlike the mists, which were hardcoded to snap a fixed percent of the population, this just drags out all the allomantic power someone is naturally endowed with. And leaves them in a temporary coma.

- Any drabs produced this way are more susceptible to Ruin. Not like, spike-level, but it's easier to slant their decisions.

Eh. Not sure about this one, Realmatically. If that makes the game go better, though, it's your choice as the DM.

-Having a Breath reserve is enough to provide some passive resistance against soothing/rioting, much like a coppercloud. A full Divine Breath is equivalent to modern copper mistings.

That's actually highly plausible. Investiture interferes with Soothing/Rioting, IIRC.

That said, there's still some interactions that I haven't come up with a good reason for. I'm going to the signing tonight, and I figure I might as well ask questions relevant to it.

So far I'm planning on asking Brandon about what happens when you stick a Breath into a mistwraith at the signing. It seems like it could turn out being cool.

I can probably ask another as well... what do you guys think would be relevant? I'm tempted to make it 'can you hemalurge by using a wooden stake full of Breath', but I sure somebody on here has a more interesting one.

A good one for your scenario would be: "Is it the case that only native Scadrialians can use Hemalurgy to 'spike' attributes out of victims?" This is based on a quote that people on the Southern continent have the "seeds of the three metallic arts" in them, suggesting that only Scadralians can use Hemalurgy, in some way.

If you get desperate...

-Is Denth technically the king of Idris, or is he an offshoot that happened to keep the Royal Locks for some reason?

--This is a sneaky question: assuming Denth is a Royal because of his hair changing color as he died, and luring Brandon out by making it sound like it's as obvious as Shallan's "secret", so he'll confirm Denth's royalty when he RAFO's the broader question. Yes, I am evil, thank you for noticing.

-Why does The Lord Ruler spend time as an old man, if he can just Compound (previously compounded) Age instead?

-Are Conjoiner fabrials sensitive enough that pairs of them attached to taught membranes could work as telephones?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Okay, so back from the signing. Got six books signed woo! woo!

"Can you put Breath into a Mistwraith? Would that make something awesome?"

"Putting Breath into a Mistwraith? Yeah, that could definitely work."

Note: he paused for a few moments, and seemed like the idea hadn't occurred to him before.

"Okay, I get the 'Stormlight' part of the title, but why is it an 'archive'. Is that going to come up later

It's called the Stormlight Archive as sort of a pun. It's because the intention was to name each book after an in-universe text. The editors keep trying to make him change it, apparently because they never like his titles. :P/>

"Is it the case that only native Scadrialians can use Hemalurgy to 'spike' attributes out of victims?"

Asked it. His response was "I don't think I've revealed that yet".

So, RAFO.

"Can you awaken trees and make ents? Or would you just end up with an expensive lawn ornament?

You can't awaken living plants - but he agreed with on the other part, so I *think* that confirms that plants and animals can get Breath auras.

"Ah, so that means trees can think!

"Everything has a cognitive aspect."

Also, here's my drawing of Elantris, and where Brandon put the chasm in. He did give a disclaimer that it's been ten years, so he can't be 100% certain he's getting it perfect.

Red lines are where my initial pencil was, black is Brandon's marker (detailing the mountains, ocean, et cetera). He says a lot of fans put the chasm in the wrong place, further up.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Kurkistan]

Well done. Sorry the question I suggested got RAFO'd. Be wary about his plant answer though, since they could just act like Vivienne's shawl and store the Breaths without exhibiting an aura.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Voidus]

Still no word on the Conjoinerphone. well we can always hope.

[Nepene]

Not sure if this is the proper forum exactly, but it doesn't really fit anywhere else.

Long story short, the player character (Acolyte Obligator Stellan) has been fumbling through an investigation of one of the noble murders committed by our friendly neighrborhood Survivor, and desperately trying to hide or get a handle on his newly discovered Biochromatic Breath. Now, I've already established a lot of the magic system interactions already for this game, but I figured it would be nice to get some help fleshing out things further.

Neat setting.

Anyway, current things I've decided upon:

- While nobody native to Scandriel has a 'real' Breath, they've still got a bit of soul or spiritweb or whatever that acts similarly. Thus, they show up on lifesense.

People on Nalthis likely endow a part of their soul to another to make a breath. Remember there was all that drama about giving up your soul being evil? While that was a bit overdramatic it is likely that everyone has a breath part of their soul. That is generally how Sanderson's magic systems work. Something natural, like metal or oaths or geography is made magical.

- Canonically, nobody on Scandriel can Awaken, even if they got Breath transferred to them. I'm leaning on Sanderson's exact wording here, and ruling that passing a Breath from person to person doesn't really count as 'awakening' - it doesn't drain color canonically, so there's a bit of a distinction there already.

That seems like a questionable thing to assume. The breath likely contains a bit of endowment, allowing endowment to occur. If you get a breath you can likely use breaths. This is definitely something you should ask Brandon. It would have a lot of impact on your setting.

- While they don't have a real Breath, you can leverage the little bit of Ruin inside the guy and rip a chunk of his soul off. The miniBreath produced is about a tenth the size of a normal Breath, and can be used normally... if ineffectively.

That seems very unlikely. Are you assuming Nalthian magic is an innate property of the soul as opposed to a magical ability granted by a shard and a planet? I think it would be more reasonable to assume you can use a spike to steal someone's breaths or steal the divine spark of Endowment in them that allows them to use endowment magics.

- The trauma caused by the soul-splitting process is always enough to snap someone; unlike the mists, which were hardcoded to snap a fixed percent of the population, this just drags out all the allomantic power someone is naturally endowed with. And leaves them in a temporary coma.

Perhaps.

- Any drabs produced this way are more susceptible to Ruin. Not like, spike-level, but it's easier to slant their decisions.

Ruin can only communicate to people through hallucinations and ethereal voices initially, according to the rpg. It's only with a lot of spikes that you become controllable It's more likely this would be the initial effect.

-Having a Breath reserve is enough to provide some passive resistance against soothing/rioting, much like a coppercloud. A full Divine Breath is equivalent to modern copper mistings.

Indeed, that seems likely. Just as it gives you resistance to disease it gives you resistance to spiritual influences.

-Nothing that's got any Investiture can be used as color fuel for Awakening - the only real standout here is the black volcanic ash, though metalminds and spikes would count as well. I'm toying with the idea that the traces of Ruin in the ash can be used to steal a bigger chunk to use as a miniBreath (with corresponding greater , but not sure on that bit.

It was quite possible to push Sazed's bracers, despite the feruchemical charge. I doubt most charged objects would offer much resistance to someone awakening, given that they would be using a thousand breaths to do anything to metal. Even if they did, enough breath would overcome it just as you can overcome a coppercloud with a strong enough soothe.

Brandon has talked about the Mistborn world being low power and the Way of Kings world being high power before. You should ask him if Warbreaker is a high or low power world compared to Mistborn world, and how easy it would be to push things.

So far I'm planning on asking Brandon about what happens when you stick a Breath into a mistwraith at the signing. It seems like it could turn out being cool.

Perhaps it would regain sentience.

I can probably ask another as well... what do you guys think would be relevant? I'm tempted to make it 'can you hemalurge by using a wooden stake full of Breath', but I sure somebody on here has a more interesting one.

To do hemalurgy you need metal spikes and so no you can't.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

That seems like a questionable thing to assume. The breath likely contains a bit of endowment, allowing endowment to occur. If you get a breath you can likely use breaths. This is definitely something you should ask Brandon. It would have a lot of impact on your setting.

It's been previously mentioned in some Q&A that people who aren't from Nalthis can receive Breaths, but even if they get a supply they can't Awaken with them.

Weirdly enough, the Command to transfer Breath doesn't cause any color draining. That, at least to me, indicates that it isn't a 'real' Awakening, since it doesn't need any fuel. This is a bit of a hair-splitting, I admit.

Allowing Scandrialians (Scandrities?) (Scanners?) to rip off a miniBreath when assisted by an Awakener is a tiny bit contrived, I admit. It struck me as patently unfair to make him need to track down Hoid to get an extra one, so... game rules. Particularly when he accidentally a lifeless. A whole lifeless. Being able to lose Breath permanently and not gain any additional would suck.

Still, once you have it established that it's possible to do, the other effects kind of fall out naturally.

It's already established that spiritual damage causes people to snap (that's what the mists do). I figure getting a chunk of your soul ripped off is more damaging than what the mists do, so would snap even more deeply hidden abilities - instead of going down to 30%, it'll go down into the 10-20% range. I figure Preservation *could* snap everyone is he really wanted to, but sending a message was the important bit, so he self-limited to 16%.

Ruin can lean on anyone who's mentally or spiritually damaged, as far as I understand. Also, I figure that if drabs are less resistant to, well, just about everything else, they'd also be less resistant to meddling by shards. They'd also be more susceptible to soothing and rioting.

Plus, it's far more interesting. Particularly when the first breath drain accidentally gave a skaa criminal soothing powers. Stellan tracked him down, forced him to give up his breath, and left him for dead (since he convulsed, went limp, and vanished from lifesense). Dealing with the aftermath was fairly amusing. Well, for me :)/>.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Nepene]

It's been previously mentioned in some Q&A that people who aren't from Nalthis can receive Breaths, but even if they get a supply they can't Awaken with them.

Ah yes, I forgot that.

"No." He then signed a person's books, then said "To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive breaths though."

Perhaps you could spike out that ability though. That would be an easy way to allow crossovers. You can spike out many spiritual powers- why not awakening?

Allowing Scandrialians (Scandrities?) (Scanners?) to rip off a miniBreath when assisted by an Awakener is a tiny bit contrived, I admit. It struck me as patently unfair to make him need to track down Hoid to get an extra one, so... game rules. Particularly when he accidentally a lifeless. A whole lifeless. Being able to lose Breath permanently and not gain any additional would suck.

It is rather contrived, but there are other ways to do it.

He could have a spike of endowment power, and spike anyone he wanted a breath from. Then he could force them to give them their breath, and take back the spike.

It's already established that spiritual damage causes people to snap (that's what the mists do). I figure getting a chunk of your soul ripped off is more damaging than what the mists do, so would snap even more deeply hidden abilities - instead of going down to 30%, it'll go down into the 10-20% range. I figure Preservation *could* snap everyone is he really wanted to, but sending a message was the important bit, so he self-limited to 16%.

It hasn't been mentioned as particularly traumatizing though, losing a breath. Whatever Endowment does is a lot more gentle.

Ruin can lean on anyone who's mentally or spiritually damaged, as far as I understand. Also, I figure that if drabs are less resistant to, well, just about everything else, they'd also be less resistant to meddling by shards. They'd also be more susceptible to soothing and rioting.

Ruin can influence anyone who has metal in them. He can also influence deranged people, like Vin's mother.

There'd be some effect but I doubt it would be as great as the effect for someone who has numerous spikes in them, which is well known in universe to be a method to communicate with your god, and is well known as a brutal and dangerous art. Endowment is gentler.

Would they be more susceptible to soothing and rioting? At a low level soothing and rioting doesn't attack your spirit. It's noted in the rpg to attack your charm. Just as Preservation and Ruin couldn't prevent minor mental influences weak powers are easy to get under the radar and it only affects you if you don't realize it's working. If you flare it you can have a spirit vs spirit conflict and try to overcome their spirit with your powers. It would be easier to do that to drabs.

So basically, a Drab would be just as able to spot or miss weak usage of power and not be affected, but would be more vulnerable to powerful displays of soothing or rioting.

Plus, it's far more interesting. Particularly when the first breath drain accidentally gave a skaa criminal soothing powers. Stellan tracked him down, forced him to give up his breath, and left him for dead (since he convulsed, went limp, and vanished from lifesense). Dealing with the aftermath was fairly amusing. Well, for me :)/>/>.

That does sound fun, but you should remember, wanton murder, torture, and destruction are possible under a variety of systems. The player makes the fun, not just the system.

[Millennium]

I think Brandon once said that the term for someone from Scadrial is "Scadrian."

[Windrunner]

Yep, Scadrians, Rosharans, Nalthians, and Selish, for future reference.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Anyway, since it's confirmed that Breath + Mistwraith = Something Awesome, anyone want to help me hash out something suitably awesome?

Let's start with the name.

Breathwraith has a certain appeal to it, but it's a little ... simple? I'm considering Chromdra/Chromadra as well, but that seems a bit cheesy. Hmm... Biokandra? Nah. Any ideas?

Since it'd be boring if it didn't (and, as previously established, this is 'something awesome'), let's say that Breath does the same 'bypassing the cognitive blockage' thing that hemalurgy does, and results in something sapient. I'm not sure what would be the most interesting way to handled this; I like the idea of having a Command that the newly-formed mind kind of congeals around. Not nearly as rigid as nightblood's, but something that's a defining aspect of who the new entity starts off as.

It takes two blessings to make a kandra, and one Breath to make a lifeless, which is really the only data we have to go with creation costs. Let's arbitrarily make the cost two Breath, assuming some sort of rough equivalency between the charge in a kandra spike and a Breath. (It's RAFO territory at the moment).

Anyway, appearance. I like the idea of a transparent human with bones made of constantly shifting auroras of color. Any other cool/awesome designs?

Also, I suppose that a kandra could gain Breath as well, which would be kinda weird. With two separate effects forcing it to be more humanlike, I could see it becoming mode-locked and losing shapeshifting ability altogether... maybe regaining the racial feruchemical ability. Maybe having constantly shifting eye and hair color or something. Any suggestions?

Edited February 25, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Tarontos]

It's been previously mentioned in some Q&A that people who aren't from Nalthis can receive Breaths, but even if they get a supply they can't Awaken with them.

You could say he is a half breed 1/2 Scadrian, 1/2 Nalthian or possibly a Nalthian who ended up with partial amnesia.

1/2 Scadrian, 1/2 Nalthian:

This may lead to infertility if this is pre Hero Of Ages due to the changes the Lord Ruler put in to the populace, Depending on how much of a change He made.

This could also lead to him being a slightly weaker awakener due to a slight dilution of breath and SDNA.

SDNA could react violently at some point If lets say he snapped.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Dude had a breath-based memory loss (we see vasher do something like that in warbreaker), and is on Scandriel due to worldhopping reasons.