Darkness's hit list -- SPOILERS

[ARARITA he/him]

Darkness is running around taking out (or trying to) those that are preRadiant and have been bad

 

So, I can think of 2 people we know that may fit that bill

 

1) Shallan - although she's Radiant has commited sin / been bad

 

2) Adolin - i believe he is on his way to being Radiant and has added himself to Darkness's hit list

 

 

[Redbird he/him]

Darkness is running around taking out (or trying to) those that are preRadiant and have been bad

 

So, I can think of 2 people we know that may fit that bill

 

1) Shallan - although she's Radiant has commited sin / been bad

 

2) Adolin - i believe he is on his way to being Radiant and has added himself to Darkness's hit list

I'm not sure how much you have read, so here is the non-spoilery version. Darkness must follow the laws of the land, and he is trying to wipe out any new Knights Radiant. Since he must follow the law and he wants to kill them, he has to find some crime they committed, and use it to legally execute the new KR.

[maxal she/her]

Darkness is running around taking out (or trying to) those that are preRadiant and have been bad

 

So, I can think of 2 people we know that may fit that bill

 

1) Shallan - although she's Radiant has commited sin / been bad

 

2) Adolin - i believe he is on his way to being Radiant and has added himself to Darkness's hit list

 

Darkness wants to kill the surgebinders as they emerged, but he needs to have a legal right to do so. Based on this, I do think his next target could be Dalinar. Dalinar has certainly committed enough crime in his lifetime as a warlord to warranty himself a legal execution. Shallan is not a bad guess either, but the truth about her murdering her parents may be hard to uproot by Darkness.

 

Whereas Adolin is on the path to Radianhood or not, he is not advanced enough to have attracted Darkness's attention. Worst, I do think it is highly possible Darkness will come for his family and leave him out of it because he is not "important enough". However, if he swears the first oath by the end of book 3 and if Darkness is still around, then for sure he'll go for him in book 4. Adolin becoming a Radiant would be exactly the kind of guy Darkness would want to remove ASAP before he gets too strong. Let's just say Adolin is much more threatening than a 13 years old girl.

 

Darkness has nothing against Kaladin and I am sure he'll look and look and look as Kaladin is a one massive threat.

[DreamEternal]

That is if Nin continues his old agenda. He told Lift he was hunting her because he believed surgebinding would cause the start of a new desolation. Since it already started he could very well be willing to stop hunting them until it ends.

[ARARITA he/him]

@ Redbird - i've read everything Cosmere minus Dragonsteel and Forests of Hell ..multiple times - including WS and Aether

 

I just reread WoR but am having difficulty remembering if he had a warrant for Ym ...

 

also maybe Jasnah and Elhokar

[Paranoid King he/him]

Darkness has nothing against Kaladin and I am sure he'll look and look and look as Kaladin is a one massive threat.

 

How far does darkness take a crime? He killed one man for delivering poison he didn't know about. As a surgeon, Kaladin has to know when to let some patients go, rather than expend all his resources to save them. Does that count?

 

And how about Elhokar? He's already seeing shadesmar in mirrors. It's only one step from there to a KR. It would be the perfect twist to have the white assassin ignore Elhokar, only to have darkness come after him.

[maxal she/her]

How far does darkness take a crime? He killed one man for delivering poison he didn't know about. As a surgeon, Kaladin has to know when to let some patients go, rather than expend all his resources to save them. Does that count?

 

And how about Elhokar? He's already seeing shadesmar in mirrors. It's only one step from there to a KR. It would be the perfect twist to have the white assassin ignore Elhokar, only to have darkness come after him.

 

Did he? I do not recall this... Can you refresh me memory? As for his time as a surgeon, I do not see it as killing: he was trying to help the injured. He failed, but it happens. No fault on his hands. I think Darkness would have a very hard time finding a good reason to slaughter Kaladin, not to mention he is the hardest to kill. He is quite advanced and has the acute skill of an elite warrior. Kaladin against Nale may be very interesting indeed.

 

We do not know if Elhokar is indeed on his way to KR. We have no confirmation and his overall attitude does not scream Radiant to me. Besides, the shadows left by the end of WoR, so I am holding a very strong reserve on his "potential". In any advent, has he committed any crime worthy of the death penalty? He seems mostly guilty of being a bad king, I do not think there is any law condemning anything he has done.

[Arondell]

Darkness wants to kill the surgebinders as they emerged, but he needs to have a legal right to do so. Based on this, I do think his next target could be Dalinar. Dalinar has certainly committed enough crime in his lifetime as a warlord to warranty himself a legal execution. Shallan is not a bad guess either, but the truth about her murdering her parents may be hard to uproot by Darkness.

 

As the "Blackthorn" it is implied that Dalinar was rather brutal on the battlefield and in subduing his opponents but that does not equate to illegal.  Indeed he was apparently admired for this in Alethkar.  If in the past Dalinar has actually committed some explicitly illegal act I would bet money that he has long since been pardoned.  Something the king has apparently unlimited authority to do.  Any Radiants among the royal family of Alethkar would be very difficult targets for Naln because of this.

 

I would add that with the arrival the desolation Naln may well be changing his strategy.  It was implied in Lift's interlude that he was hunting potential surgebinders because they could return desolation to Roshar.  With the arrival of the Desolation why would he continue?  Also at the end of WoR I had the distinct impression that the Shin leadership was now at the top of his list.

[maxal she/her]

As the "Blackthorn" it is implied that Dalinar was rather brutal on the battlefield and in subduing his opponents but that does not equate to illegal.  Indeed he was apparently admired for this in Alethkar.  If in the past Dalinar has actually committed some explicitly illegal act I would bet money that he has long since been pardoned.  Something the king has apparently unlimited authority to do.  Any Radiants among the royal family of Alethkar would be very difficult targets for Naln because of this.

 

I would add that with the arrival the desolation Naln may well be changing his strategy.  It was implied in Lift's interlude that he was hunting potential surgebinders because they could return desolation to Roshar.  With the arrival of the Desolation why would he continue?  Also at the end of WoR I had the distinct impression that the Shin leadership was now at the top of his list.

 

Sadeas mentioned how Dalinar used to make heads roll for a whim back when he was younger which implies he had slaughtered people for nothing more than talking bad against him. He and Sadeas also masterminded the execution of Highprince Yenev, which is not any better than Adolin knifing good old Sadeas... Adolin at least, was straight-forward about it: he did not hide behind any plot. Now whereas Dalinar was pardoned or not is irrelevant: the Alethi society does not frown on open murder as long as it is not too obvious. I thus doubt Nale would struggle very hard to find a good legal reason to execute Dalinar.

 

It is possible he has changed his strategy. Somehow, I was hoping to see him come for our heroes, just to spice things up.

[Patrick Star]

His reach extends beyond Roshar.  For example, he took out Jameis Winston during the Rose Bowl!

 

This was a scary takedown.  He moved so quickly that only people with an intimate knowledge of classical mechanics would have suspected foul play.  As you can see, he also got the referee during his escape.

 

Take a look at how brutally he murdered the poor QB!

 

[Arondell]

Now whereas Dalinar was pardoned or not is irrelevant: the Alethi society does not frown on open murder as long as it is not too obvious. I thus doubt Nale would struggle very hard to find a good legal reason to execute Dalinar.

 

It is possible he has changed his strategy. Somehow, I was hoping to see him come for our heroes, just to spice things up.

 

Actually as the Lift interlude shows being pardoned is extremely relevant.  Also the kings power to pardon has been shown to be effectively unlimited.

[maxal she/her]

Actually as the Lift interlude shows being pardoned is extremely relevant.  Also the kings power to pardon has been shown to be effectively unlimited.

 

I meant I doubt the king actually bothered to pardon Dalinar for any potential crime as the Alethi society did not see them as crimes per say. The written law may disagree, but the Alethi have a loose way of interpreting their own laws.

[Arondell]

I meant I doubt the king actually bothered to pardon Dalinar for any potential crime as the Alethi society did not see them as crimes per say. The written law may disagree, but the Alethi have a loose way of interpreting their own laws.

 

That is...a highly speculative way of looking at it.  I guess my view is that at this time no one has stated, implied or even hinted that Dalinar is currently guilty of being in violation of any of the laws of Alethkar.  Either currently or in the past.  Explicit or implicit.

 

Assuming Naln is still hunting surgebinders he would have a very difficult time both finding an excuse and getting the authority to kill Dalinar.  Another thing that the Lift interlude made clear is that Naln needed to have the authority to carry out such an execution.  He actually had a leave of execution to kill Lift.  In whatever nation he is operating in he must follow the local laws.  Even Amaram, who publicly admitted to outright murder, was due a trial.  So even if Naln could find a crime to pin on Dalinar he still couldn't just walk up and kill him out of hand.

[maxal she/her]

That is...a highly speculative way of looking at it.  I guess my view is that at this time no one has stated, implied or even hinted that Dalinar is currently guilty of being in violation of any of the laws of Alethkar.  Either currently or in the past.  Explicit or implicit.

 

Assuming Naln is still hunting surgebinders he would have a very difficult time both finding an excuse and getting the authority to kill Dalinar.  Another thing that the Lift interlude made clear is that Naln needed to have the authority to carry out such an execution.  He actually had a leave of execution to kill Lift.  In whatever nation he is operating in he must follow the local laws.  Even Amaram, who publicly admitted to outright murder, was due a trial.  So even if Naln could find a crime to pin on Dalinar he still couldn't just walk up and kill him out of hand.

 

I am forced to agree with this, especially the last part. Nale would have a hard time finding legal motives to kill Dalinar as the legal authority would most likely pardon him in the advent it was not done before. Nale going for Dalinar thus seem improbable.

 

As for the rest, based on the glimpses we have seen of the Blackthorn, he was a horrible person who killed many and not all were deserving. He was an angry and jealous man who learned to control himself with the years, but he was not choral kid. He states in WoR on how he had needed a strong event to force him to change and was hoping his son would not need the same (epic fail, though Dalinar is right in saying Adolin is a good boy: killing for love of kin as opposed to killing for the love of blood.). In any way, I have a hard time seeing all the scheming Dalinar did to win his brother a crown as completely legal, especially the part where they organized the killing of Yenev. He has to have broken down a few laws, but being the king's brother, it became irrelevant. 

 

All in all, I think young Dalinar was not a bad person, but he was literally overruled by so many negative emotions, notably jealousy towards his older brother, he lost himself in the process. It makes me yearned to find out about grand-pa Kohlin, the one who became delusional as he aged, and how the dynamic within the previous Kohlin's household worked. Aging Dalinar turned out being a honorable man, so there must have been an equally honorable man hiding within young Dalinar. What happened to him? Why the Blackthorn? 

[Aleksiel]

Nale was killing surgebinders because (in his own words) he believed that way he'd be able to prevent another Desolation from happening. But now it's too late for that, isn't it? He has no reason to keep hunting surgebinders. 

[AerionBFII he/him]

Nale was killing surgebinders because (in his own words) he believed that way he'd be able to prevent another Desolation from happening. But now it's too late for that, isn't it? He has no reason to keep hunting surgebinders. 

Except if he feels like just doing it anyway or starts hunting Kal and crew because they 'caused' a Desolation?

[Aleksiel]

Except if he feels like just doing it anyway or starts hunting Kal and crew because they 'caused' a Desolation?

 

It doesn't look like 'feeling' is one of his strengths. Do you think him a serial killer? He deserves the benefit of doubt -perhaps there was a good reason to consider surgebinders potential threat; after all he is one of the Heralds and knows more than anyone else on-screen about Desolations. And it was the alethi armies marching on the Plains who forced the Parshendi to summon the everstorm; it can't be blamed on surgebinders.

[DreamEternal]

Actualy, Venli convinced Eshonai to try out Stormform by pointing out that there was a surgebinder among the human armies.

[Aleksiel]

Actualy, Venli convinced Eshonai to try out Stormform by pointing out that there was a surgebinder among the human armies.

 

Venli was likely already under Odium's influence and would have found a way to convince others to take stormform even without the surgebinder argument.

[DreamEternal]

We can't know if Eshonai would be convinced, and her support was crucial to Venli's plan. Still, I doubt that Nin was hunting surgebinders in the West because he believed they would convince the Parshendi more than half a continent away to adopt stormform.

[Aleksiel]

Nale probably haven't seen an everstorm since it's a new thing and Desolations typically didn't start that way, so he likely wasn't focused on anything of the sort.

 

Why would Eshonai's support be crucial? Venli would have done it herself if Eshonai didn't insist she take stormform first. It's not like Eshonai was their queen or had the last say.

[WindrunnerRadiant he/him]

I think it would be possible that know that the Desolation has begun, Darkness might instead join the other Radiants and try to defend humanity, but this is also a little to optimistic for me to believe until it happens.

 

However, he did what he did because he truly believed it was for the best. I doubt he will delude himself into believing that continuing along that path is really for the best. However, there are some of the Knights Radiant that he might try to kill for their crimes anyways.

 

Kaladin is an escaped slave. He has been pardoned but Darkness may or may not care about that. 

 

Shallan has her obvious history to account for.

 

Adolin has recently become a murder, even if for a good reason, and many seem to think he'll become a Radiant.

 

Elhokar is shaping up to be a Radiant, but he has done some pretty bad things that may even be considered unjust even as king.

 

All in all, Darkness could go either way continuing on in the story, but regardless of his choice, I'm willing to bet that he will think that what he is doing is in the right.

[Quiver he/him]

Why would Eshonai's support be crucial? Venli would have done it herself if Eshonai didn't insist she take stormform first. It's not like Eshonai was their queen or had the last say.

No - but she was their Shardbearer, and had a reputation for being able to 'control' her forms to an extent. The parshendi had no idea what Stormform would be like, or what impulses it would bring with it.

Having someone like Eshonai tell everyone how great it is would make converting others easier.

Besides, wasn't it implied Venli had already tried Stormform? The whole thing was manipulation, in my opinion, to make Eshonai volunteer for the reasons above.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Quiver

[Aleksiel]

Yes, it was implied and I agree manipulating Eshonai to take stormform made it easier to convince others to take it as well, but there were many ways to persuade her and her involvement in my opinion sped up the plot, but it would have worked even if she initially didn't volunteer to try it first. My main point is surgebinders were the occasion Venli used to pursuade the Parshendi to turn to stormform, but mainly the fear of the approaching armies and the threat to the Listeners.

 

It's very ironic they killed Gavilar to prevent the return of their gods only to summon them themselves a few years later. It doesn't make much sense to me, they must have known the alethi would go to war once Gavilar was assassinated and the Parshendi refused to give any explanation or negotiate peace according to Dalinar. I have no idea what else they expected to happen.

[RenegadeShroom]

It was a very desperate move on their part, which apparently worked, initially. Eshonai's attempts to talk to Dalinar in TWOK and WOR are her trying to sue for peace, and the listeners had initially hoped that drawing the Alethi into a war of attrition on the Shattered Plains would bore them. What they didn't account for was the gemhearts and human greed.

 

Evidence from the first edition hardcover of WOR:

(Pages 166 - 167)

' Instead, she and the others had ordered the murder of the Alethi king in a desperate gambit to stop the listener gods from returning.

Well, that had worked--the Alethi king hadn't been able to put his plan into action. But now, her people were slowly being destroyed as a result. '

 

 

(Page 168)

' “What would you do, Sister?” Venli asked. “If you and this Kholin were actually able to stop trying to kill each other long enough to have a conversation?”

“I’d sue for peace.”

“We murdered his brother,” Venli said. “We slaughtered King Gavilar on a night when he’d invited us into his home. That is not something the Alethi will forget, or forgive.” '

 

 

(Page 203)

' The listeners had made a decision centuries ago, a decision that set them back to primitive levels. Choosing to murder Gavilar Kholin had been an act to affirm that decision of their ancestors. Eshonai had not then been one of their leaders, but they had listened to her counsel and given her the right to vote among them.

The choice, horrible though it seemed, had been one of courage. They’d hoped that a long war would bore the Alethi. '

 

 

Basically, they made a desperate decision which they thought was necessary, and they weren't quite as capable of handling it as well as they thought and it really screwed them over in the end. I'm only wondering why Eshonai had to beat Dalinar into submission at the Battle of the Tower before she tried to talk to him!