Mental Addiction and Dependency, Emotional Allomancy, and You

[Gamma Fiend]

So, I'm not good with the whole 'formal' theory-crafting template, so I suppose I'll just dive right in.

 

 

When thinking of modern uses for Emotional Allomancy, I began to think about the effectiveness of psychiatrists and the like if they are able to expertly apply Rioting/Soothing on their patients during their sessions. Surely this would help ease away their anxiety, or help cheer them up or be more forthcoming and prone to self-reflection...

 

...but then I got to thinking of the potential aspects of that becoming more and more successful and popular. In our modern culture, many people experience great social and anxiety issues, as well as depression and all sorts of other slight personality disorders. Could Rioting/Soothing potentially replace, or at least severely hinder the invention and widespread usage of pharmaceuticals?

 

Rioting and Soothing are known to effect emotions, being able to dampen them or inflame certain feelings, but the key point is they were feelings already there. And what are emotions but chemical balances/imbalances in the brain? Is Rioting/Soothing able to directly effect the brain in that regard? Instead of taking a [insert anti-depressant name] pill, would daily or weekly sessions with the Rioter/Soother do the trick, and help balance out your emotions?

 

*Random thought* What about Sociopaths? Would they have any emotions able to be allomantically manipulated?*

Even if Emotional Allomancy doesn't necessarily replicate/replace pharmaceutical pills of the like, it would still become quite popular as civilization advances. Day have you just a little bit gloomy? Go see a skilled Rioter (at top dollar, of course), and feel extremely happy for whatever period of time, and eventually, that can potentially become habitual behavior if one keeps doing that. You just don't feel right, if your anxiety or fear isn't been soothed away, or your desired level of happiness doesn't become achieved, or it's just no longer enough.

 

Yes, I'm talking about potential Recreational Soothing/Rioting (And it's bad, m'kay! Really, really, bad) and it's potential for abuse and mental dependency/addiction. Does such a thing sound plausible -- especially considering what's considered to be addictive behaviour nowadays?

Then we can get into the whole actual Cosmere aspect of it all and what damage mental dependency/addiction takes on your Cognitive Identity and all that.

What do you all think? Is this theory crackpot enough?

 

[spencer12347]

I could see the Soothing parlors in Alloy of Law go down this road. Your mention of sociopaths got me thinking of a serial killer that is an rioter. While the good rioters would increase happy this serial killer could elevate depression and other sad emotions driving people to commit suicide. I would love to see emotional allomancy become an addiction and if this does happen can't wait for the name that Sanderson will come up with for these addicts. 

[Turos]

I can see something like this helping people get over walls blocking them from emotional recovery, but for cases where the problem isn't chemical imbalances, it should definitely be temporary until they begin building habits to get their state of mind back on track, otherwise it just becomes a crutch. Cool idea, though. Probably a lot less undesired side-effects, too.

[Curiosity]

Huh. Commercials with disclaimers for Soothing and Rioting. 

 

I know that Kelsier was a sociopath*, we just don't know what being a sociopath means realmatically, so we can't predict what the effect would be. However, I can't recall specific times Kel was either Soothed or Rioted, so I can't say definitively that he can or can't be Soothed/Rioted. Book citations, anyone?

[Esaias]

Huh. Commercials with disclaimers for Soothing and Rioting. 

 

I know that Kelsier was a sociopath*, we just don't know what being a sociopath means realmatically, so we can't predict what the effect would be. However, I can't recall specific times Kel was either Soothed or Rioted, so I can't say definitively that he can or can't be Soothed/Rioted. Book citations, anyone?

"Kelsier froze. It was so subtle he almost missed it. Vin was Soothing his emotions." From chapter 11, page 212 of the paperback.

[kaladin_stormblessed_]

It should be noticed that there is a difference between sociopath and psychopath. Psychopaths are devoid of emotions, while sociopaths just lack one or more emotions, but not all of them. So if Kelsier was a sociopath, he still has some emotions that can be soothed/rioted.

 

Edit: Sorry for the inaccurate data, this was just how I currently understood it.

To correct my mistake, definitions as defined by Oxford dictionaries

Sociopath- a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

Psychopath- a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.

Edited May 23, 2015 by PercyJackson

[DreamEternal]

As far as I know, sociopaths have lack of compassion and inability to form interpersonal relations that do not directily benefit them, so unless my psychological knowledge is horribly misguided I can't see Kelsier being a full on sociopath, only maybe a low degree sociopath.

Please, feel free to correct me if I said anything stupid.

[Kasimir]

*Random thought* What about Sociopaths? Would they have any emotions able to be allomantically manipulated?*

I find this interesting. They would have emotions--I don't think there are people without any emotions at all, for one. Sociopaths and psychopaths lack specific emotions or at least don't seem to respond to them as much as we do. (Another debate I want to side-step.) Consider another case: there are people who, after sustaining lesions to the amygdala, don't demonstrate typical fear-behaviour. (So, you see an Inquisitor, you scream, pee yourself, and run. Or whatever. These people don't register fear-behaviour. In some cases, they don't even report feeling fear.) Can their fear be Rioted? I don't think so. But then again, it would really depend, in part, on your views of the brain and mind. If the fear is being produced in one module but fails to be processed in consciousness modules and behaviour modules (to use a crude example), then perhaps it can be Rioted. But would the disconnection still mean it can't be felt? Perhaps.

 

Yes, I'm talking about potential Recreational Soothing/Rioting (And it's bad, m'kay! Really, really, bad) and it's potential for abuse and mental dependency/addiction. Does such a thing sound plausible -- especially considering what's considered to be addictive behaviour nowadays?

I'm not that familiar with the psychology/neuroscience of addiction. But I imagine if people can be addicted to the Internet or to gambling, then I think dependency/addiction can obviously develop. Ditto for abuse.

[WindrunnerRadiant]

It should be noticed that there is a difference between sociopath and psychopath. Psychopaths are devoid of emotions, while sociopaths just lack one or more emotions, but not all of them. So if Kelsier was a sociopath, he still has some emotions that can be soothed/rioted.

This is false. Sociopaths and Psychopaths have trouble discerning between right and wrong, or find it impossible. The difference between the two is that psychopaths can't form emotional connections to other people. They both still experience emotions. 

 

That being said, emotional allomancy would certainly have an effect on them, but it might have different effects than you would intend it to. Rioting, say, a psychopath's happiness might trigger different things than a 'normal' person, such as memories of killing someone. You would have to be very, very careful. Soothing would certainly be safer...

[WindrunnerRadiant]

Oh, and as far as the original theme of this topic, I think being able to use investiture in general could almost eliminate the need for an form of pharmaceuticals. With all the different uses of investiture on different worlds, there is going to be some combination that would solve all medical problems. Emotional Allomancy Therapy in combination of Elantrian's use of healing Aons practically covers all medical needs I can think of...

[spencer12347]

With this whole discussion of sociopaths and psychopaths it got me thinking of this idea. Say later in the series, like the 3rd trilogy maybe earlier, they find away to let metal take a longer time to burn. Now say there is a terrible psychopath who is a serial killer and instead of giving him the death penalty they set ten or so soothers on him leaving him devoid of emotion, think of the affects of a frontal lobotomy. I think the death penalty won't exist because of Alloy of Law's society really doesn't have these kind of thoughts, but that could change. In later series instead of having talks about the death penalty they finds the next best thing this soothing suppression. 

 

EDIT: If this is discovered even earlier in the 1940s series, if that is ever made, we can be shown the discovery and then see society discussing the affects in the 2nd trilogy.

Edited May 19, 2015 by spencer12347

[WindrunnerRadiant]

I think that the only effect of this would be awful. First, I doubt this would have the same effects of a frontal lobotomy, which would be bad enough. It is a horrible procedure that basically destroyed the persona and intellect any patient it was used on. Second, the only thing that voiding a person of emotion for a while would do would likely be further deterioration of discerning capabilities and a separation from reality. Basically, it would probably worsen their condition rather than improve it. 

[Wyrmhero]

With regards to the nuances of how emotional Allomancy works, I think you're forgetting that the Cosmere is more than the physical world. Perhaps it has no physical affect at all - it is a Mental metal, after all. That classification could just be due to the low level of science on Scadrial when it comes to neuroscience, though. I will be very interested to see how Allomancy works when there's a high-science setting backing it up.

 

So, here's an interesting question. Gamma has brought up the idea of  this being similar to recreational drug use, and that's led me along another path. I'm thinking of King Mithradites, in Ancient Greece. He spent ages ingesting small amounts of poisons to build up a gradual resistance to them. Could such a thing happen with emotional Allomancy? If you are Rioted enough, could your mind strengthen itself (we already see you can train it to feel when you're being affected by it), such that emotional Allomancy slowly starts losing its effect on you? Essentially an extension on the scares of drug addiction and searching for a larger high each time to counteract this effect.

 

Alternatively, if it's used too much on you, could it indeed warp your mind to having that as your standard view on life? I'm more doubtful about that though, since duralumin + brass only has a temporary effect. That could just be due to the short time involved, however. At the very least, it would be a useful aid alongside standard medicinal treatments and therapies.

 

As a minor aside, in the Mistborn Adventure Game's bonus novella, A House of Ash, there is a snippet with a person addicted to Rioting (as in, a Zinc Savant). Savants have literally affected their bodies to the point where they need to consume and burn the metal. Could we see Allomantic metals being regulated as well, not just because they are 'weapons', but because of the possible health problems with burning too much of them? Powers highs are definitely a thing, after all. Whenever I consider an urban-fantasy setting, I always wonder just how magic would (and if it should) be regulated.

 

While not a long-term solution, law enforcement could certainly do with a few Soothers on the force to defuse a situation very quickly. Duralumin + Brass (or, a better/more workable idea, some Nicrobursts around) would be an incredible help to preventing violent crime if they're on the scene. Again, not a long-term solution, but certainly one that would be of use.

 

For that matter, how does Rioting/Soothing affect the law? 'He Rioted me and made me do it'? With sufficient Allomantic strength behind it or Nicrobursting, it could be a thing. At what point does it stop being you to blame, and become someone else's culpability? If you were Soothed against your knowledge and signed a contract, is that contract legal due to being put under duress? Breeze doesn't see anything wrong with Soothing, but that's not how the corporate world would see it. It'd have to be illegal during elections as well, something people are already concerned about in Alloy of Law times (we see a Smoker run on exactly the issue of emotional Allomancy affecting politicians). And that's not even getting into the lobbying potentials of it...

 

What about human rights groups? Britain doesn't like extraditing people if evidence obtained via torture may be used. Would the same be true of Soothing? Allowing already-polarising procedures such as abortion and euthanasia becomes infinitely more questionable too if there's the possibility of emotional manipulation involved. I think it's very questionable how much emotional Allomancy would be legal in the modern world. Not quite a mental health issue, yes, but something worth thinking about.

 

Basically, I can't see emotional Allomancy being anything other than very strictly controlled. It's just too dangerous otherwise. Not that other Allomancy isn't, but...

Edited May 21, 2015 by Wyrmhero

[WindrunnerRadiant]

I doubt you could build up a resistance to the actual effects of emotional Allomancy. If you could, other effects would be resisted as well. The more a Thug used pewter, for instance, the less effective it would be. And with the amount some Allomancers have used their metals, we definitely would have seen that by know. So you would just have to train yourself to know when it is being used on you. You can kind of 'correct' it from their by actively pursuing the opposite of what the Allomancer is trying to accomplish.

 

Honestly, the effects of long term emotional Allomancy use on a person would likely be that they develop a dependency on it to feel certain emotions. If you are Rioted to much for a specific emotion, your brain might stop producing the chemicals that cause you to feel them. On the other hand, if you are Soothed to much for a specific emotion, your brain might start over producing the chemicals that cause you to feel them. I don't think either would be good unless it was as a prescription, like for anger management.

 

As for the rest of it, I wouldn't put it past Brandon to include that in later books. They are all valid concerns of the use for the use of emotional Allomancy. And I doubt it would be restricted to emotional Allomancy either. The criminal possibilities for Allomancy or any of the Metallic Arts are just as high as any other use for them.

[Kasimir]

Whenever I consider an urban-fantasy setting, I always wonder just how magic would (and if it should) be regulated.

While not a long-term solution, law enforcement could certainly do with a few Soothers on the force to defuse a situation very quickly. Duralumin + Brass (or, a better/more workable idea, some Nicrobursts around) would be an incredible help to preventing violent crime if they're on the scene. Again, not a long-term solution, but certainly one that would be of use.

For that matter, how does Rioting/Soothing affect the law? 'He Rioted me and made me do it'? With sufficient Allomantic strength behind it or Nicrobursting, it could be a thing. At what point does it stop being you to blame, and become someone else's culpability? If you were Soothed against your knowledge and signed a contract, is that contract legal due to being put under duress? Breeze doesn't see anything wrong with Soothing, but that's not how the corporate world would see it. It'd have to be illegal during elections as well, something people are already concerned about in Alloy of Law times (we see a Smoker run on exactly the issue of emotional Allomancy affecting politicians). And that's not even getting into the lobbying potentials of it...

What about human rights groups? Britain doesn't like extraditing people if evidence obtained via torture may be used. Would the same be true of Soothing? Allowing already-polarising procedures such as abortion and euthanasia becomes infinitely more questionable too if there's the possibility of emotional manipulation involved. I think it's very questionable how much emotional Allomancy would be legal in the modern world. Not quite a mental health issue, yes, but something worth thinking about.

Basically, I can't see emotional Allomancy being anything other than very strictly controlled. It's just too dangerous otherwise. Not that other Allomancy isn't, but...

Well, here's one thing for sure, if Scadrial is anything like our world. No one will ask ethicists when trying to devise regulatory frameworks. I mean, why ask people who spend ten years of their lives researching the ethics of Allomancy? Edited May 24, 2015 by Kasimir

[Colours]

I can see Soothers and Rioters being in high demand for any job that involves interacting with people. Every customer service centre could do with one to help with angry customers. All the best cafes would have one to promote an atmosphere of relaxation. They could enhance the excitement at concerts, tempt people to splurge on jewelry, convince people to trust that your pet psychics can indeed solve your intercaste marriage problems with black magic(?)...

 

I can, in fact, see a future society in which people become very much more inclined to go out and be consumers, simply because when they aren't serving corporate interests, they just don't get to feel quite as vividly.

 

This is actually pretty worrying. 

[DreamEternal]

Yes, unless there a way to turn everyone into a full metalborn, code morality into magic like in Roshar, or create a cheap and non-intrusive way to limit the metalic arts, like some sort of aluminum field, those with powers will be above those without.

[spencer12347]

I think the Southerners will have some way to block soothing and rioting with their mechanical allomancy. Also if emotional allomancy is treated like a drug in a future series what would rehab look like? Could their emotions be so out of whack from this long dependency that it would be worse to take them off this than continuing it? If a soother addict had their anger and stress soothed for a year and that is taken away the anger that is released is a year's worth. That could cause this person to hurt someone if he attacks anyone near him or himself if a relatively calm heart experiences a year's worth of stress. 

[Gamma Fiend]

Well it sure has been awhile, but seems like a good enough time to update this thread in the wake of Shadows of Self!

I did pre-order the book and asked Brandon about this theory specifically, and received this answer:

 

 

So we did see a decent bit of that during the soothing parlor scenes, and I think it was a great setup for it to be explored in future books.

Like Wax being numb and rusting ticked off at God and just wanting to not feel anything for a while the next book?

[Stormgate]

I think that emotional Allomancy is going to be extremely impaired when the Scadrians figure out how to refine Aluminum in large quantities. Not to mention Coinshots and Lurchers would have some trouble, since your soda is not a good weapon. Either way, a Rioting serial killer might have some trouble when a Bronze Misting gets on his tail.

[Moogle]

I did pre-order the book and asked Brandon about this theory specifically, and received this answer:

 

Out of curiosity, what exactly did you ask him?

[Gamma Fiend]

Out of curiosity, what exactly did you ask him?

 

Holy thread necro! A side effect of coming out of my half a year hiatus!

But I'm trying to remember the exact wording, but I think I asked him along the lines of

"Can people get dependent/addicted to mental allomancy" and basically any sort of side effects.

[Dustbringer12]

Well it sure has been awhile, but seems like a good enough time to update this thread in the wake of Shadows of Self!

I did pre-order the book and asked Brandon about this theory specifically, and received this answer:

 

I can't see the picture on my computer. what does it read?