Pewter

[Oudeis]

I have questions about the most effective ways to store strength in a pewtermind.

First, can we all agree that the stronger someone is, the more strength they can store at once? As in, a Ferring who is very strong anyway can store more strength in the same period of time than a weak Ferring, if they both store down to "just enough to lie here and not move for a while". Not to mention, when you tap the strength, it'll add on top of your natural strength, so it's better to be stronger for that reason, too. If not, then all of my reasoning is flawed.

So, it's clearly a good goal to be stronger, yourself, to make more effective use of a pewtermind. So, what's the best way to get stronger?

If you're storing half your strength, and start lifting little five pound weights, will you gain strength faster because your so-weak muscles can do nothing but improve? Should you actually tap some strength and bench-press a 600lb bar, to gain the enormous benefits of lifting that much to add onto your own physique?

And what about Allomantic pewter? If you're a Twinborn with both pewter-pewter, can you burn pewter, and store THAT extra strength in a pewtermind?

[Windrunner]

The answer to that last question is yes you can, but it's more efficient to simply compound if you've got double pewter.

[Oudeis]

The answer to that last question is yes you can, but it's more efficient to simply compound if you've got double pewter.

Well, yes, if you have to pick one or the other you should compound. But if you burn pewter, store it in a pewtermind, and then ingest and burn that pewtermind, you're compounding the massive strength. You can do both tricks and get insanely powerful.

[Eric]

I accept your base assumption as fully reasonable.

So, it's clearly a good goal to be stronger, yourself, to make more effective use of a pewtermind. So, what's the best way to get stronger?

If you're storing half your strength, and start lifting little five pound weights, will you gain strength faster because your so-weak muscles can do nothing but improve? Should you actually tap some strength and bench-press a 600lb bar, to gain the enormous benefits of lifting that much to add onto your own physique?

I'm thinking the former. The left-over muscle mass that you haven't stored is being trained to be better than normal, giving you more available to store later. In the latter, you're strengthening some muscle mass that you won't have when you stop tapping. It seems more efficient to improve just the muscle mass that you'll keep than that which will go away.

[happyman]

The basic assumption seems reasonable. The more you have to store, the more you will have to draw on later. It seems like the inverse of Wayne's situation at the end of AoL, where he has to let his leg heal naturally because storing healing will just slow him down over all. Or similarly, I suspect that healing would work much less effectively on somebody who is naturally and chronically sick before discovering they are a gold ferring.

As for compounding, well, yes, technically you might get more if you are stronger when you start. The only case where this could possibly matter would be if you are going up against another pewter compounder. In that case, though, have a stronger base strength probably would help.

[Inkthinker]

I think it's worth noting that the effects of pewter-strength are different in Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Pewter-burning grants strength and speed, but doesn't physically change the Allomancer. Pewter-draining grants strength and speed by making the Feruchemist bigger and presumably making muscles and nerves more responsive.

Feruchemical pewter-strength comes from a different place than Allomantic, and I'd say it'd be most balanced to rule that Allomantic pewter strength/speed can't be stored in Feruchemical pewter, only natural "real" strength/speed. Maybe because the energy is being burned, and so can't be channeled.

Now, what a Twinborn could do is drain his natural strength/speed by half and then burn pewter at the same time in order to return to his baseline. The pewter-granted power isn't being stored, it's being burned. The metalmind gets filled, while nobody notices that you're weaker than normal. Good way for a powerful Pewtermind to keep their ability a secret.

The RPG might have some information that would clarify this question, and that would be Brandon-approved.

[dyring]

I think it's worth noting that the effects of pewter-strength are different in Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Pewter-burning grants strength and speed, but doesn't physically change the Allomancer. Pewter-draining grants strength and speed by making the Feruchemist bigger and presumably making muscles and nerves more responsive.

Feruchemical pewter-strength comes from a different place than Allomantic, and I'd say it'd be most balanced to rule that Allomantic pewter strength/speed can't be stored in Feruchemical pewter, only natural "real" strength/speed. Maybe because the energy is being burned, and so can't be channeled.

Now, what a Twinborn could do is drain his natural strength/speed by half and then burn pewter at the same time in order to return to his baseline. The pewter-granted power isn't being stored, it's being burned. The metalmind gets filled, while nobody notices that you're weaker than normal. Good way for a powerful Pewtermind to keep their ability a secret.

The RPG might have some information that would clarify this question, and that would be Brandon-approved.

Its a decent way to do it, but not to keep it secret I would think.

If you stored first, youd get smaller as your muscles shrink. Then you burn pewter, your muscles stay small, while you gain normal functions.

Burn pewter first, and then store. Wont change your size.

One thing is it might fool people. If you can store allomancy pewter strength into your metalmind, you could pull it out without growing in size, become immensively strong without it showing. Say, like the lord ruler when he punched Kelsier. Another Terrisman pulling strength from a pewtermind may draw so hes twice your size thinking him far stronger, and youll just chrush him.

Another thing thou. When I was thinking of twinborns that it would be cool to have, I was thinking a bloodmaker thug. Theres a better combo for your thoughts. Burn pweter you not only get stronger, but also healthyer in a way, healing faster. Burn pewter and you could store health maybe twice as fast as a regular bloodmaker (say Wayne), while likely still being able to move about fairly normal. More if you flare alot.

basically, you wont have Miles healing, but youll be able to store always and that should give your reserves to pull of the same stuff as miles do fairly often. Be cheaper too, not using up your gold. At the same time you´ll be stronger and thougher if it comes to fighting. Wounds wont get as bad, and requre less healing.

Thats a better use for your thought then double pewter where compounding is off the charts for strength:)

[Vortaan]

Its a decent way to do it, but not to keep it secret I would think.

If you stored first, youd get smaller as your muscles shrink. Then you burn pewter, your muscles stay small, while you gain normal functions.

Burn pewter first, and then store. Wont change your size.

One thing is it might fool people. If you can store allomancy pewter strength into your metalmind, you could pull it out without growing in size, become immensively strong without it showing. Say, like the lord ruler when he punched Kelsier. Another Terrisman pulling strength from a pewtermind may draw so hes twice your size thinking him far stronger, and youll just chrush him.

Another thing thou. When I was thinking of twinborns that it would be cool to have, I was thinking a bloodmaker thug. Theres a better combo for your thoughts. Burn pweter you not only get stronger, but also healthyer in a way, healing faster. Burn pewter and you could store health maybe twice as fast as a regular bloodmaker (say Wayne), while likely still being able to move about fairly normal. More if you flare alot.

basically, you wont have Miles healing, but youll be able to store always and that should give your reserves to pull of the same stuff as miles do fairly often. Be cheaper too, not using up your gold. At the same time you´ll be stronger and thougher if it comes to fighting. Wounds wont get as bad, and requre less healing.

Thats a better use for your thought then double pewter where compounding is off the charts for strength:)

It's also more economical, if you think about it. Pewter is cheaper than gold, so after an initial goldmind investment, you will have more resources to spend on your Allomancy metal.

[Inkthinker]

I am 99% certain you cannot store Allomantic strength in a metalmind, only natural strength. But I think you're right, you'd still appear weak and frail... so yeah, not so secret.

If you pulled pewter from the metalmind to bulk up (Feruchemy), then burned pewter from a bead (Allomancy), you'd grow huge and then you'd grow even stronger and faster than could be accounted for with your increased size... but you can't store AND drain at the same time... if you switch from draining to storage, you'd lose the bulk and shrink down, but you'd still be effectively as strong as normal. The strength that goes into the metalmind is ONLY your "natural" strength, Allomantic strength can prop you up so that you don't suffer the effects but you're still draining yourself so the effects remain... you're just covering up the symptoms.

If you start out burning pewter, then switch to storage, you'd still shrink down and you'd still lose power... but the Allomancy burn prevents those effects from affecting your performance ability. The amount being added to the pewtermind is ONLY that which you possess naturally.

Now, I suppose you COULD use this to drain yourself into a Pewtermind at a dangerous rate that would otherwise kill you. Just don't run out of pewter to burn. And you can still Compound, burning your own Feruchemically charged pewter for some crazy insane level of Allomantic pewter-strength.

A Pewter-Pewter Twinborn would definitely be crazy powerful physically, and as mentioned above would probably be naturally a fit and strong person. But I just don't see being able to store the same power you drain from a burn. You can trade strength for strength, but not act a conduit. They're not the same energy, they just have similar effects.

[Eric]

@Inkthinker: This is precisely why I prefer saying it stores 'muscle mass' as opposed to 'strength'.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I am 99% certain you cannot store Allomantic strength in a metalmind, only natural strength.

WoB is that you can, but compounding would be easier.

[Kurkistan]

WoB is that you can, but compounding would be easier.

I can't find the WoB for the life of me. Do you have a link?

It may be the case that Brandon says that Allomantic pewter "allows you to store more Strength," but he's just being sneaky and thinking along the lines that Inkthinker laid out.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Phantom Monstrosity]

[Kurkistan]

Thanks.

Perhaps the "Strength" stored from Allomantic pewter is fundamentally different from normal Strenght? So someone who tapped a pewtermind only filled by a Thug tapping Pewter might not get bulge-muscled.

[dyring]

Thanks.

Perhaps the "Strength" stored from Allomantic pewter is fundamentally different from normal Strenght? So someone who tapped a pewtermind only filled by a Thug tapping Pewter might not get bulge-muscled.

Ofcourse you can store strength from pewter, or your run into a whole lot of different problems. Take compunding. the explanation given is that by storing say health in gold, you create a new metal of sorts wich you can burn, thus using metals to gain the strength. Thus, compounding health means you store allomancer health(unless you use it all imidiately). Same with say double pewter, or double everything.

Same as storing pewter strength. If you couldent store pewter strength, then you couldent compound at all imho.

Edited January 12, 2013 by dyring

[Kurkistan]

Ofcourse you can store strength from pewter, or your run into a whole lot of different problems. Take compunding. the explanation given is that by storing say health in gold, you create a new metal of sorts wich you can burn, thus using metals to gain the strength. Thus, compounding health means you store allomancer health(unless you use it all imidiately). Same with say double pewter, or double everything.

Same as storing pewter strength. If you couldent store pewter strength, then you couldent compound at all imho.

Pewter is fairly unique here, actually. It's one of the few Allomantic powers which lines up with its Feruchemical counterpart (along with Tin), so I don't see how storing Strength from Allomantic Pewter is necessarily akin to compounded Health from gold. "Allomancer Health" can only be gained by compounding existing Feruchemical Health, while the extra strength gained from normal storage when burning Pewter doesn't need to involve compounding.

[Inkthinker]

Welp, that shuts me up. G'night folks!