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Any theories as to how Nightblood... [spoilers]?

Bondsmith

By Bondsmith
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Patrick Star

Patrick Star

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Posted

Nightblood got away from Vasher and ended up killing every evil person on Nalthis.  This made all of the non-evil people angry, which Nightblood interpreted as evil because he got bored, so he killed them as well, then went to Roshar in order to kill all of the evil people there as well.

 

Also, he wants to eat Odium.

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Kobold King

Kobold King

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Posted (edited)

Guys... I know it's been a while since WoR came out, but there are still a lot of people who haven't read the book yet. Titles can be seen from the front page. Would you mind editing the title so as to not spoil one of the biggest surprises of any Sanderson novel? Thanks. :)

 

 

EDIT:

 

You might want to change the title of this thread, seeing as that it is a huge spoiler for WoR

 

Should have read this thread before posting. :P Honey Badger has the right idea here. Spoilers should be taken seriously, or else we might find ourselves losing members who become sick of getting the books spoiled before they've had the chance to read all of them. Reading every Sanderson novel should not become a prerequisite for participating in the forum.

Edited by Kobold King
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Shattered

Shattered

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Presumably Vasher threw it at someone and they didn't kill themselves? He lets people steal it regularly, I doubt he watches it.

I mean, Vasher is here too. You just need to take it from him, no Hoid needed.

Is Vasher really 100% confirmed to be on Roshar? I thought I heard through someone that he's actually Zahel, but that wouldn't make much sense, because how could he have possibly gotten to Roshar, and how would he be so good with a sword? And Zahel can see honorspren!

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kaellok

kaellok

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Is Vasher really 100% confirmed to be on Roshar? I thought I heard through someone that he's actually Zahel, but that wouldn't make much sense, because how could he have possibly gotten to Roshar, and how would he be so good with a sword? And Zahel can see honorspren!

Vasher is definitely, 100% the same person as Zahel.  

 

 

QUESTION
When you were planning Zahel being Vasher, how long did you do that?
BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Vasher was in the 2002 version of The Way of Kings by name. I only changed him to the new name after I finished this entire draft. Because I was like, oh he'd probably go under a pseudonym. So he's been in Roshar 12 years our time.

 

Link is here.

Zahel can see Honorspren because Vasher is a returned, who has the Fifth Heightening--which lets them see the Investiture in other people.  All spren are bits of a Shard; they are Splinters.  They are Investiture that has become conscious and sentient.  
Vasher was always very good with a sword.  The difference between "very good" and "the best ever, who then had hundreds of years of practice honing their craft" is a bit much.  Just remember that Vasher kept from dying immediately in his duel with (I forget his name), and actually lasted quite some time.  He didn't manage that by being terrible with the sword, but by being very good--just not the best.
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Shattered

Shattered

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Posted

 

Vasher is definitely, 100% the same person as Zahel.  

 

 

Link is here.

Zahel can see Honorspren because Vasher is a returned, who has the Fifth Heightening--which lets them see the Investiture in other people.  All spren are bits of a Shard; they are Splinters.  They are Investiture that has become conscious and sentient.  
Vasher was always very good with a sword.  The difference between "very good" and "the best ever, who then had hundreds of years of practice honing their craft" is a bit much.  Just remember that Vasher kept from dying immediately in his duel with (I forget his name), and actually lasted quite some time.  He didn't manage that by being terrible with the sword, but by being very good--just not the best.

 

Hm. I still don't think that he would be good enough to be classified as a Swordmaster because even though he might be good, he can't control his emotions in a duel, which I think would end up with him losing, especially when he's probably going up against the most skilled duelists on Roshar for the title. Plus, he probably doesn't use the classical stances at all.

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natc

natc

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Shouldn't be hard to learn the stances. He's been here long enough to be an ardent. Being immortal has its perks, and we've never actually seen him fight someone who wasn't notably amazing with a sword or similarly immortal.

"Swordmaster" might not even refer to his skill level, but the the fact that he teaches it. A master-apprentice type deal perhaps?

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WeiryWriter

WeiryWriter

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Actually Vasher is a better swordsman than Warbreaker makes him out to be:

 

 

Q: Vasher is not the best of swordsmen in Warbreaker, but he is a bonafide sword-master in Words of Radiance. Expound?

A: Basically, Vasher is a much better swordsman than Warbreaker makes him out to be, but by that point he is centuries old and worn out and tired of fighting, plus he's had Nightblood for a long time so hasn't needed to keep his sword-fighting skills sharp. In WoR, he no longer has Nightblood, and has had to rely on what he's good at to make a living, and fighting happens to be something he is good at.

 

(source)

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Moogle

Moogle

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Hm. I still don't think that he would be good enough to be classified as a Swordmaster because even though he might be good, he can't control his emotions in a duel, which I think would end up with him losing, especially when he's probably going up against the most skilled duelists on Roshar for the title. Plus, he probably doesn't use the classical stances at all.

 

Keep in mind there's some funky stuff going on with Returned as well. Denth may or may not move supernaturally fast at one point in Warbreaker. All the Returned get perfect physiques (though Vasher may not while he pretends he's a scruffy old man). Even if Vasher is lacking in skill (which he's not, really) it seems to me like he has a few supernatural advantages regular humans don't get.

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Shattered

Shattered

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Keep in mind there's some funky stuff going on with Returned as well. Denth may or may not move supernaturally fast at one point in Warbreaker. All the Returned get perfect physiques (though Vasher may not while he pretends he's a scruffy old man). Even if Vasher is lacking in skill (which he's not, really) it seems to me like he has a few supernatural advantages regular humans don't get.

 

But you also have to remember that while Vasher is good, Dalinar would probably beat him in a duel, and Adolin definitely would. Neither are classified as Swordmasters. I do believe that it is confirmed that Denth, and by extension all Returned, have superhuman attributes, but probably isn't as simple as it seems. Lightsong didn't display any of these capabilities while fighting the Pahn Kahl (I think that's who they were). Anyway, the only way that I could see Vasher actually being a Swordmaster is if the title only applies to ardents meant to train Lighteyes in the sword, like natc suggested.

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Sennah

Sennah

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Posted

Anyway, the only way that I could see Vasher actually being a Swordmaster is if the title only applies to ardents meant to train Lighteyes in the sword, like natc suggested.

 

 

He was very good in warbreaker, and Brandon says he's even better now.  Since we have no one to compare his swordsmanship to (since none of the Stormlight characters have fought any Warbreaker characters) it's probably safe to assume he's very, very good.  He did beat Kaladin after all, even if he did get pretend hamstringed.

 

Not to mention in that fight, Kaladin was giving it his all and I get the feeling Vash was just toying with him.

 

Anyway, the thread was about how Nightblood got to Roshar.  I have a feeling that one of the bad guys brought him over, and Vash came to track him down.  That's why he's in the Stormlight universe.

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Blaze1616

Blaze1616

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But you also have to remember that while Vasher is good, Dalinar would probably beat him in a duel, and Adolin definitely would. Neither are classified as Swordmasters. I do believe that it is confirmed that Denth, and by extension all Returned, have superhuman attributes, but probably isn't as simple as it seems. Lightsong didn't display any of these capabilities while fighting the Pahn Kahl (I think that's who they were). Anyway, the only way that I could see Vasher actually being a Swordmaster is if the title only applies to ardents meant to train Lighteyes in the sword, like natc suggested.

 

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you believe Dalinar and Adolin to be better than Vasher? I have to disagree, otherwise why would Dalinar send Renarin to the ardents when he can have Adolin train his brother instead?

 

 

Anyway, the thread was about how Nightblood got to Roshar.  I have a feeling that one of the bad guys brought him over, and Vash came to track him down.  That's why he's in the Stormlight universe.

 

I disagree with this theory because which baddie would take the sword, and why? It makes more sense for Vasher to move to Roshar, take Nightblood with him, and then have the sword stolen once there. Particularly because the person who currently has Nightblood, Nalan, has been stuck on Roshar for what, 4,500 years? So unless you're suggesting there is a secret struggle to control Nightblood on Roshar, it makes more sense for the sword to have been stolen on Roshar.

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TheBrian

TheBrian

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In WoR, Zahel notes the absence of a voice in his head as he drifts off to sleep and the fact that the voice hadn't been there for years now.  I took this to be a reference to losing Nightblood.  I think it is a reasonable assumption that Vasher/Zahel brought the sword with him when he came to Roshar.  Presumably he met up with Nalan at some point and gave up Nightblood under some set of circumstances I can't imagine.

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Loni

Loni

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Options, as I see them:

 

1) Vasher brought NB with him when he traveled to Roshar

     a) NB was consequently stolen

     b ) NB was given away

     c) NB was thrown away/lost by Vasher and discovered by another

 

2) NB was stolen by a Worldhopper and brought to Roshar

     a) Vasher doesn't seem all that intent on getting NB back, so is unlikely. 

     b ) The Worldhopper would have to be nuts, and I don't think even Hoid is that crazy.

 

There is little evidence that NB was stolen and Vasher is after it, so it's most likely it came with Vasher. I think the better questions isn't how NB got to Roshar, but why did Vasher show up? He's likely not in the 17th Shard, since (I think) he knows Hoid is Wit.

 

 

 

 

Edit: silly emojis

Edited by Loni
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StormingTexan

StormingTexan

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Threads like this give me the internal debate on if I would rather Brandon publish Nightblood or SA3 next if I had a say in it. I think we will learn a lot more about Nightblood in SA3 but still be left with the question on how Vasher and Nightblood ended up on Roshar until Nightblood is published. 

 

I'm with those that think they both went to Roshar together and somehow were separated. Zahel does not seem to want to find Nightblood that much either or perhaps we just haven't seen enough from his POV. 

 

As for as his fighting skills I do not think we can judge with what we saw in Warbreaker. We really do not know how much time has passed between Warbreaker and now. He could simply have gotten better with time even though he seemed pretty good to me. We also do not know just how good compared to say Adolin Denth was (and the other guy cant remember his name). They were considered the best which still wasn't good enough to kill Vasher but may be far superior than Adolin with a sword. Blaze made a good point too why would he be training Renarin? Also wasn't it Zahel who trained Adolin too or am I remembering that incorrectly? 

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tbone5711

tbone5711

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Out of curiosity, is there a reason you believe Dalinar and Adolin to be better than Vasher? I have to disagree, otherwise why would Dalinar send Renarin to the ardents when he can have Adolin train his brother instead?

Just because someone is great at something, doesn't mean they can teach it.  I also don't see Adolin having the patience to be a teacher at his age. 

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Blaze1616

Blaze1616

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Just because someone is great at something, doesn't mean they can teach it.  I also don't see Adolin having the patience to be a teacher at his age. 

 

That is a very good point. I still disagree, as Vasher's had a far longer life span to hone his skills, though.

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natc

natc

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if blades are spren, and spren are power, what happens when night blade hits it? if not restore the spren, then sets it free.

Same thing as when Nightblood hits another hypothetical Nightblood, I assume. Or a shardblade hits another shardblade.

Absolutely nothing.

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