Reading through my copy of the Mistborn RPG, discovered something interesting.

[royishere]

The "capital" of the Southern dominance is apparently "Austrex".

We know from Sanderson's RAFO of the "if Elendel was named for Elend, who was Lutha?" question that there are potential clues about ancient history (cosmere or merely Scadrial) hiding in the names of at least one Final Empire city. With that in mind, is the name's resemblance to Austre a coincidence, or is there something more going on here?

Sorry if this is old.

[king of nowhere]

Seems stretched to be a coincidence.

However, if it is not, how did the lord ruler know about austre?

The only possible answer is that he got the knowledge from preservation, but then sazed got all the knowledge of preservation, and he mentions that ruin and preservation was once part of a whole, but could not find much about it. just the name adonalsium. so i doubt preservation knew of austre, and so it is likely a coincidence. after all, there aren't that many combinations of letter that you can use wiuthout two of them resembling each other.

Otherwise, there's some intersting chapter of the cosmnere to write.

[Chaos]

Hmmm, that is interesting, but I am also going to say coincidence. It's possible the writers just made up the name and made it sound Mistborny (and did not consult Brandon about it), and that's all there is to it. Not all cities have to be named after people.

Worth a question to Brandon, though, that's for sure.

[Inkthinker]

Very little was done with that book that did not involve consultation and approval by Brandon.

[Nepene]

I found some interesting things in that book too. Aluminium metal minds can be used to steal metal minds of other people. Sazed's metal minds may be stolen, along with the secrets of the control group being revealed.

Edited November 24, 2012 by Nepene

[Windrunner]

Sazed's copperminds are empty, he tapped all of the knowledge in them into his head as he Ascended.

[Chaos]

Very little was done with that book that did not involve consultation and approval by Brandon.

Well there you go.

[name_here]

We've already speculated one religion was spread to or from Nalthis by worldhopping to Scadrial, so a second isn't much of a stretch.

[Nepene]

Sazed's copperminds are empty, he tapped all of the knowledge in them into his head as he Ascended.

He had backup copperminds, and some other metal minds may still have charge. If someone was able to steal them (and Brandon mentioned they may appear again) they might be able to gain some religious authority as the heir of Sazed.

[Voidus]

Well Luthadel and Elendel both share the same ending, Austrex doesn't so I'd say it was probably just a coincidence, it shares and ending with Fadrex so I'd guess they were just trying to make similar sounding names.

[Windrunner]

He had backup copperminds, and some other metal minds may still have charge. If someone was able to steal them (and Brandon mentioned they may appear again) they might be able to gain some religious authority as the heir of Sazed.

Well, lets discuss some problems with this. Firstly, most of the Words of Founding can be read by anyone. The only knowledge that we know for sure that's been restricted is about Hemalurgy. Secondly, Sazed's backup metalminds are significantly out of date. There's never any mention of him going to them, and he's never had time to go find them and store his knowledge of Hemalurgy or anything interesting about the cosmere that he found out. So basically if someone finds those copperminds, they can tap them and find out information that they could have read in a book. The religions are all in the Words of Founding. Thirdly, those back-up metalminds are gone. The whole world was razed. After it was razed, the crust of the planet has literally been shifted, basins formed, mountains raised and flattened (All things Sazed would have had to have done to return Scadrial to its original state, something we know he did). The ruins of cities are gone, old locations have no more meaning. Sazed's metalminds could be under an ocean, or a mountain, or have been shifted into the mantle.

And on the off chance that someone somewhere digs them up, who would even know what they were? They'd think they were bits of copper, probably from old tools or something. No one thinks, "Hey look at these rusty pieces of metal, I found god's jewelry!" And continuing on in this vein of implausibility, even if someone identified them, no one would believe that person. It'd be like someone claiming to find the Holy Grail. And as for Sazed's real metalminds, those are locked up tight, I'm certain. And even if someone did gain access to them, and used the trick no one knows about, what would they find? The copperminds are empty, the others practically drained. The only people who would "revere" someone who had Sazed's stuff are the Pathians, and their religion specifically prohibits the worship that this "heir of Sazed" would have to demand in order to have any real effect. Not to mention that the Pathians aren't an overwhelming majority by far, the Survivorists are at least as powerful, if not moreso. Sazed's metalminds, back-ups or originals, aren't going to be granting any knowledge or making anyone a powerful religious leader.

[Aethling]

How could someone else read his copperminds? I didn't see anywhere in Alloy that stated the prohibition against using other's metals was changed. The reason that the Keepers had to return periodically was that they could not be shared.

[Windrunner]

This is info from the RPG, a direct quote from Brandon.

[Nepene]

Well, lets discuss some problems with this. Firstly, most of the Words of Founding can be read by anyone. The only knowledge that we know for sure that's been restricted is about Hemalurgy. Secondly, Sazed's backup metalminds are significantly out of date. There's never any mention of him going to them, and he's never had time to go find them and store his knowledge of Hemalurgy or anything interesting about the cosmere that he found out. So basically if someone finds those copperminds, they can tap them and find out information that they could have read in a book. The religions are all in the Words of Founding. Thirdly, those back-up metalminds are gone. The whole world was razed. After it was razed, the crust of the planet has literally been shifted, basins formed, mountains raised and flattened (All things Sazed would have had to have done to return Scadrial to its original state, something we know he did). The ruins of cities are gone, old locations have no more meaning. Sazed's metalminds could be under an ocean, or a mountain, or have been shifted into the mantle.

I am not making any claim that any of Sazed's copperminds are useful. They would have symbolic importance. Most metalminds aren't that useful to steal- you could just make your own.

Plot significant items have a way of surviving off screen. If Brandon chose to introduce this as a plot point he could just have someone dig them up as part of an archeology thing.

And on the off chance that someone somewhere digs them up, who would even know what they were? They'd think they were bits of copper, probably from old tools or something. No one thinks, "Hey look at these rusty pieces of metal, I found god's jewelry!" And continuing on in this vein of implausibility, even if someone identified them, no one would believe that person. It'd be like someone claiming to find the Holy Grail.

Allomancers and Feruchemists can confirm the presence of a charge on a metal mind by trying to use it. Vin did that when she tried to burn Sazed's Pewtermind.

If they could read the coppermind they could prove who had owned them.

And as for Sazed's real metalminds, those are locked up tight, I'm certain. And even if someone did gain access to them, and used the trick no one knows about, what would they find? The copperminds are empty, the others practically drained. The only people who would "revere" someone who had Sazed's stuff are the Pathians, and their religion specifically prohibits the worship that this "heir of Sazed" would have to demand in order to have any real effect. Not to mention that the Pathians aren't an overwhelming majority by far, the Survivorists are at least as powerful, if not moreso. Sazed's metalminds, back-ups or originals, aren't going to be granting any knowledge or making anyone a powerful religious leader.

That sounds like an interesting conflict- some powerful charismatic person trying to make themselves heir to Sazed directly contrary to religious teachings.

They would need charisma too, and they would get that by using their identity metal mind. They would be incredibly interesting to people.

[SirShemmington VI]

I found some interesting things in that book too. Aluminium metal minds can be used to steal metal minds of other people. Sazed's metal minds may be stolen, along with the secrets of the control group being revealed.

I've looked on the wiki, and it doesnt say anything. And i dont have a copy or the RPG. How exactly does the aluminum thing work?

[Nepene]

I've looked on the wiki, and it doesnt say anything. And i dont have a copy or the RPG. How exactly does the aluminum thing work?

Brandon doesn't explain in any depth. He just says that theoretically you could use it to tap another's metal mind.

[Oudeis]

Brandon doesn't explain in any depth. He just says that theoretically you could use it to tap another's metal mind.

I always sorta wondered about this. Everything in the RPG book is rather vague. I don't have it in front of me, but Sanderson's note says something about how "careful reading will reveal how it's possible to use this to use someone else's metalminds", and frankly I've never seen how that's possible.

What aluminum does is store "identity", the things that make you a personality. It stores your convictions and your beliefs and your quirks and everything that makes you, you. I'm not sure if, on Scadrial rather than in the game, it's supposed to work like copper. What do I mean by that? I don't think it's like pewter where you store strength and feel weaker, then return to normal when you aren't storing; like copper, when you put the memory in the metalmind, it's there for good and you don't get the memory back just because you aren't storing; if you put an aspect of your identity in an aluminummind (which is not a fun word to type; try it) you choose something specific, like your tendency to make "your mom" jokes, and then it stops being a part of you until you tap it again. Let me clarify; this is just my supposition, and entirely unsupported so far.

So, here's the best I can think of. It requires a central belief of Feruchemy to be wrong in a believable way; basically, the rule "only the Feruchemist who stores a trait, can tap that trait" is, instead, "no one who ISN'T the Feruchemist who stores the trait, can tap that trait." Basically, to pick examples from AoL, if Miles stored some health in a goldmind, Wayne would not be able to use it; not because he isn't Miles, but because he IS Wayne. If Wayne had the ability to use Feruchemical aluminum, he could have stored the entirety of his identity in an aluminummind (man, that word) thereby temporarily not being ANYONE; this person would have no identity to let the goldmind know not to allow him access, so he could use it.

This seems like a HUGE stretch to me, and while not technically impossible it's just preposterous, but it's the best I've ever been able to come up with from the clues we've got. If anyone has a better theory, I for one would love to hear it.

[Observer]

Thanks to the instinctive nature of Scadrial's magic systems, I sorta pushed the piece of my identy that was.....Wayne-y into an aluminummind(Oh wow) and suddenly found myself less funny and less inclined towards hats. I then compounded that and gave myself and explosive burst fo Wayne-ness, then prompty stole and used his metalminds because the explosion of personality overshadowed all else. Sorry Wayne, but I hate being sick...

[Phantom Monstrosity]

If Wayne had the ability to use Feruchemical aluminum, he could have stored the entirety of his identity in an aluminummind (man, that word) thereby temporarily not being ANYONE; this person would have no identity to let the goldmind know not to allow him access, so he could use it.

Maybe it's the other way around - if you store all your identity while filling a metalmind, that metalmind doesn't belong to anyone in particular.

[Oudeis]

Maybe it's the other way around - if you store all your identity while filling a metalmind, that metalmind doesn't belong to anyone in particular.

Interesting...

I think I have it, though! I should have realized before that stealing Investiture from someone would require Hemalurgy. Also, I think that both people would have to be full Keepers, with all Feruchemical powers.

Keeper A stores up whatever traits he wishes in his various metalminds, and he stores up a chunk of identity, too. He is then killed with a Hemalurgic spike, which is then driven into Keeper B's bind point, giving him the power of Feruchemical aluminum. Since he now has the SPECIFIC aluminum power of Keeper A, the spike allows him to access that stored identity, which he has to take into himself (side-note, this sounds like you have to become schizophrenic for it to work). Once Keeper B has taken the actual stored identity of Keeper A, he might then have access to the REST of Keeper A's metalminds, though I still think he'd need separate Feruchemical ability before he could use them.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Involving hemalurgy seems too cheap a method - after all, if you steal a feruchemical power from someone, you ALREADY get access to someone else's metalminds.

Dug up my copy of the RPG to make sure I could get the exact qutoe

That said' date=' however, consider the impilcations of Aluminum in Feruchemy. With proper manipulation, it might be theoretically possible to tap someone [i']else’s[/i] metalminds.

Actually, the question of identity-tagging something seems to come up in several magic systems. You've got breath/metalminds/shardblades, which all only respond to a single person. Might be worth looking into.