Theory: All mistings can also burn the God Metal alloys of their metal.

[Haradion Drogon]

Okay - here is my thoery, be warned as it contains spoilers from across the cosmere. be warned, I have not spell checked all of this, and may contain some grammer or spelling errors. please don't flame me for it.

Here is what we know:

- The Only Shards on Scardial are Ruin and Preservation (Now in possession of Harmony)

- Therfore the only magic systems are Feruchemy, Allomancy, and Hemulurgy

- Atium Mistings were thought not to exhist.

- The Only known God Metal Alloy is Malatium.

- Malatium was only ever burned by full Mistborn in its appearence.

We also Know:

- All magic systems in Brandon's work have a method of entering Shadesmar.

- In WoK, Demoux (an Atium Misting) is capable of world hopping.

It suggests to me, that on Scardrial, the method of entering Shadesmar must either be Hemalugical based, feruchemicaly based, or allomatically based. I propose fior the purposes of this thought experiment, We assum it is Allomatically based, as the result, of entering a new place, is end positive - you can't store entering the cognitive realm, nor can you steal it. It follows that it is an allomatical power that allows the transition to Shadesmar.

As a result, the Metal used must be either - The main effect of Lerasium, or the main effect of a Leresium Alloy, or atium Alloy - this is the only logical conclusion, since all allomancy requires a metal to use.

If we now agree that The ability to travel to Shadesmar is bestowed by one of these unknow metals:

- We know burning the Lerasium creates a mistborn, and a lerasium alloy creates a misting. But these are not their primary effects.

In WoK, Demoux is searching for Hoid. Based upon "The letter" (we assume this is written by Hoid) it follows that Demoux is a member of the elusive 17th Shard.

This means he has some method of worldhopping.

If we assume that Demoux has not attained any other powers since then via Hemulurgy (no mention of piercings were made) then it follows that Demoux is capable of burning a God-Metal Alloy, in order to world hop.

The logical conclusion therefore is the following:

- Demoux can burn the Atium-Lerasium alloy.

By the same school of thought, we assume that Demoux is not unique, and any misting is capable of burning his Metal's God Metal Alloys. This would put Demoux in a unique position. I suggest, that a Lurcher would be able to burn, Iron, Iron-Lerasium, and Iron-Atium.

Demoux however, can burn the God metal, which suggests to me that He can burn:

Atium-Lerasium, And all the Atium Alloys.

A hint to this is that in an interview, Brandon refused to say wether or not Demoux can burn malatium. if he could, it would prove that either Demoux has gained new powers, or that this is the case.

Now feel free to pick holes in this theory to your heat's content.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Haradion Drogon

[Voidus]

My problem is that even if Seers can burn Atium-alloys doesn't necessarily mean other mistings can, anyone can burn Lerasium or any of its alloys, you don't need to be a misting of the alloy type to do so, since Atium does have specific limits on its usage (Mistborn and Seers) if we extend the same principle then they are capable of burning all Atium alloys but other mistings might not be capable of burning any.

[Sapph]

Atium Mistings were thought not to exhist

Yomen has been confirmed as an Atium misting.

[Haradion Drogon]

Aye. And he was the first recorded. If Elend had not met Yomen, he would not have considered that a percentage of his army had snapped into Atium Mistings. Vin originaly suspects him of being a mistborn, because he burns Atium, but he does not burn pewter or steel when they fight, and it is discovered he is an atium Misting.

Atium Mistings were thought not to exhist right up until HoA.

My problem is that even if Seers can burn Atium-alloys doesn't necessarily mean other mistings can, anyone can burn Lerasium or any of its alloys, you don't need to be a misting of the alloy type to do so, since Atium does have specific limits on its usage (Mistborn and Seers) if we extend the same principle then they are capable of burning all Atium alloys but other mistings might not be capable of burning any.

Alright, the problem arises from the uniqueness of Atium. IF Demoux was a regular Misting, we would have no problem, but because Atium is a God metal, it is indeed plausible an Atium Misting has some Powers a ordinary misting does not have, but still be weaker than a Mistborn...

[Thor]

Aye. And he was the first recorded. If Elend had not met Yomen, he would not have considered that a percentage of his army had snapped into Atium Mistings. Vin originaly suspects him of being a mistborn, because he burns Atium, but he does not burn pewter or steel when they fight, and it is discovered he is an atium Misting.

Atium Mistings were thought not to exhist right up until HoA.

*snip*

Only by the general populace. The Steel Ministry would occasionally spike drinks at noble parties with small amounts of Atium and then cause a disturbance (like having an Inquisitor show up) and then look for signs that people were burning Atium instinctively, then take those that were burning it aside and offer them positions in the Ministry.

[king of nowhere]

it seems a sound theory.

I especially like the idea that any misting can burn also the god metal alloys of his meal because it has been established that there is a great number of allomantic alloys that can be made from god metals, much more than the regular metals, and allomancy is much more tidy if it don't require a ludicrous amount of different kinds of mistings that can burn extremely specialized god metal alloys.

Only problem I see with it is the lerasium required for world hopping. as far as we know there were only ten spheres in the first place. nine the lord ruler gave to his first allies, and the tenth was taken by elend. so where would have damoux gotten the lerasium to worldhop?

That is not an unsormountable problem, since he must have been contacted by the shard - I just don't see him finding a bead of lerasium and one of atium by himself, much less melting them together and burning them to see what happens, nor do i see him understanding what happened if he accessed the cognitive realm.

So the only reasonable scenario is that the 17th shard contacted him in some way and thaught him to worldhop. I have no idea where they would have found lerasium, but they are a powerful enough organization that they could certainly do it without breaking suspension of disbelief if the author wills it.

[Haradion Drogon]

Well It is generaly accepted that Hoid has yet another piece of Lerasium. Also, with Sazed in possestion of the Shard, and the knowledge that Atium was being produced in the Pits of Hathsin (haven't read it in a while so I am not susre on the spelling). Still, we know that Atium was being constantly produced over time. It doesn't seem that much of a strech to believe that Lerasium follows similar guidelines now Sazed has the Shard of Preservation. He could well be directing his power into generating more Lerasium.

[Oudeis]

- In WoK, Demoux (an Atium Misting) is capable of world hopping.

Do we know that he personally can world-hop? Is it possible that another world-hopper brought him along for the ride?

[Voidus]

Do we know that he personally can world-hop? Is it possible that another world-hopper brought him along for the ride?

Or he might have used a method that didn't require an inborn ability, like a fabrial or something.

[Observer]

Yeah, I doub the was seventeenth the whole time, likely it was between HoA and AoL, so it's not unlikely that somebody else picked him up. It does seems rather like Brandon to let Pewterarms burn Pewter and Atium-Pewter to avoid crap, and then award the lucky Seers the powers of Atium-everything, but we can't say for sure.

Hey, at least Aluminum mistings aren't useless anymore...

[Voidus]

Hey, at least Aluminum mistings aren't useless anymore...

Well given that Atium compounds give extra temporal effects they'd probably just be able to deplete all of their future stores of metal too

[Observer]

Well given that Atium compounds give extra temporal effects they'd probably just be able to deplete all of their future stores of metal too

That would suck

Gold shows your your past. Gold-Atium shows you another's past. Gold-Aluminum can't just work on the other person, so it'd likely do something similar but not the same. Any ideas?

Edited January 2, 2013 by Observer

[Haradion Drogon]

Pahapes create a "bubble" that slowly drains all reserves within it? Or reduces the seed of the burn?

[Observer]

Pahapes create a "bubble" that slowly drains all reserves within it? Or reduces the seed of the burn?

I like the bubble, but it's unfortunately more likely chromium's ability D:

[dj26792]

If atium adds temporal effects I think it probably makes the metals that effect metal stores have longer term effects, ie: aluminium depletes your stores, atium aluminium depletes your stores and any new metals you ingest in the next X amount of time.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I actually just stumbled across this old quote from TWG

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?&topic=5661.msg118071;topicseen#msg118071

Zane's entire character is foreshadowing for book three.

I leave gold intentionally vague, I'm afraid, even by the end of book three. I do this in novels, particularly when I feel that I might do more books in a world later on. The events of books two and three don't lend me to spending much time on gold or malatium, so I figure I'll save really digging into them when I can have a character more focused on them. (I'd someday, for instance, like to do a Malatium or gold Misting and see if I can do anything interesting with them.)

So it looks like malatium-only mistings are a thing. Or at one point were planned to be, at least. Edited April 23, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Voidus]

I actually just stumbled across this old quote from TWG

http://twg.17thshard.com/index.php?&topic=5661.msg118071;topicseen#msg118071So it looks like malatium-only mistings are a thing. Or at one point were planned to be, at least.

But that can really be read two ways.

1. Either a malatium or gold misting

2. A malatium (Or gold) misting

Although 1. is far more likely

[kroen]

Doubt it. In AOL, Wax was kind enough to explain that making an alloy of a metal creates an entirely different metal.

[Voidus]

Doubt it. In AOL, Wax was kind enough to explain that making an alloy of a metal creates an entirely different metal.

Alloying with the god metals (Atium and Lerasium) is a bit different though, they can be alloyed with any of the other allomantic metals and produce another allomantic metal, wheras the others can't. 

Also by Wax's time both Atium and Lerasium were pretty much mythical metals.

[kroen]

Alloying with the god metals (Atium and Lerasium) is a bit different though, they can be alloyed with any of the other allomantic metals and produce another allomantic metal, wheras the others can't. 

Also by Wax's time both Atium and Lerasium were pretty much mythical metals.

Is this confirmed? Didn't Brandon once said something about there being more than 50 metals but less than infinity?

[Voidus]

It definitely would have been discovered if you could alloy the other metals together, the speculation on that is that there are probably upwards of 51 (16 Allomantic, 16 Atium-alloys, 16-Lerasium alloys, Atium, Lerasium and a god metal for Harmony (Sazedium) plus it's 16 alloys) it's also possible that depending on percentages there could be multiple alloys of Lerasium/Atium with the other metals.

[Morsk]

Isn't it weird how no one tried alloying Atium before, in the first series? (Except with gold.) Maybe it's a side-effect of the tweaks Preservation did to the magic system, putting Atium and Malatium in on different Mistings, and it broke other Atium alloys. Then Harmony changed it back, so Atium alloys have only been possible since then.

I can't interpret this to get any more spins on what Demoux is doing though.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Isn't it weird how no one tried alloying Atium before, in the first series? (Except with gold.) Maybe it's a side-effect of the tweaks Preservation did to the magic system, putting Atium and Malatium in on different Mistings, and it broke other Atium alloys. Then Harmony changed it back, so Atium alloys have only been possible since then.

I can't interpret this to get any more spins on what Demoux is doing though.

 

Well, keep in mind that atium is ludicrously expensive, and the only way to test atium alloys is on a mistborn.  I suspect that a bad atium alloy is going to be WAY more dangerous than a bad aluminum alloy, since it's made out of concentrated Ruin.  Odds are you lose an almost irreplaceable allomancer.

 

I'm pretty sure Lord Shezler was being ruin-manipulated when he invented malatium - he's not entirely sane. 

 

That said, would've been nice to see his research notes

Edited April 23, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Senor Feesh]

Agreed, with the prohibitive cost and scarcity of Atium, it's not feasible to do extended tests.

[happyman]

I'd add one caveat to this:

TLR and the ministry actually probably could do experiments on Atium alloys.  They had the resources.  My guess, though, is that TLR didn't want people to be trying it.  That would have brought up too many questions and made the shell game he played with Ruin much more difficult.