guess Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 See link. To me this means, you don't actually buy an ebook from Amazon, you just get a license. I don't buy ebooks. Does anyone know if any other devices can do this? I have an Ipad, but I don't buy books. I think I bought 2 apps (a few dollars each). I mainly use it for web surfing. Amazon has track record of bullying business practices. http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST he/him Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 Indeed this is seriously crappy of them. It's also likely that Amazon, Apple, Facebook (to an extent), Google, Microsoft, and all the other 'silo' companies can quite happily remove all the purchased content from your account without warning or whatever, though don't quote me on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted October 22, 2012 Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 All Tor books (from any vendor) are now DRM-free, so you can make backups easily. Brandon's self-released novellas are also DRM-free. Unfortunately, it is likely that any books Brandon puts out from other publishers will have DRM, because most other publishers don't understand that DRM only hurts the consumer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling he/him Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I wonder how much of this came from her buying the items across national borders. She is using the UK site, but she lived in Norway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Yasha she/her Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 DRM at its worst? Heh, she's not played an EA/Ubisoft game has she. This is another reason I don't buy e-books, below the biggest reason of data loss (backups? what is this mythical process you speak of?). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling he/him Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Ok, after reading several articles about this exact issue, I believe the woman got what she deserved. She knew that kindles were not licensed for use in her home country, and she used a fraudulent address to get around the limitation. If you know a product is not offered in an area and you commit fraud to get around the limitation, you cannot complain when it comes back to bite you. It boils down to she did something she knew she was not supposed to do. When you make a decision to do something like this, you have to live with the results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 What article says it wasn't licensed? Norway is part of what the publishing industry calls the "open market." In Norway, you can legally buy ebooks intended for the UK AND the US. She used her Norway billing address for her purchases. When the Kindle needed warranty repair they wouldn't send it to Norway but accepted her use of a friend's UK address for the replacement. Anyway Amazon has reinstated her account. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling he/him Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Article from a UK paper stated she used her friend's address specifically to bypass Amazon's policy. I think it was the guardian, but it was really the only one I read of several that even came close to actually looking in to what she had done. I am a big believer that if you know you are doing something wrong, you can't blame others when you get bit. Amazon must have just caved on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 This is nothing particularly new. They've caught flak before for removing books remotely that people bought. There was a big hubbub a few years ago because they removed (ironically) an Orson Wells novel (1984) from people's device. They had some reason, like they weren't allowed to sell it legally or something like that due to contractual things, but still, it has happened before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 1984 is by H. G. Wells. Orson Welles did a famous radio play of it. Article from a UK paper stated she used her friend's address specifically to bypass Amazon's policy. I think it was the guardian, but it was really the only one I read of several that even came close to actually looking in to what she had done. I am a big believer that if you know you are doing something wrong, you can't blame others when you get bit. Amazon must have just caved on this one. I think it was a BoingBoing article I read that spelled it out more clearly. It's not illegal to have and use a Kindle in Norway, and that includes buying books. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal he/him Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 1984 is by H. G. Wells. Orson Welles did a famous radio play of it. Actually, it's by george orwell (thus the word "orwellian"), I mistakenly said Orson Welles in my previous post despite meaning orwell. AFAIK, Orson Welles didn't write any books (though he may have one or two here and there, but i dont think he was a renowned author). HG wells was dead before 1984 was even published (by 3 years). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling he/him Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Apparently, it is against the customer agreement to use a fraudulent address on your account, and she used her friend's address for her account. I can't believe she didn't know this because she used a false address. If you do not agree with a company's policies, you do not have to do business with them. If you chose to do business with them, you can't complain if they find out that you are breaking the rules of your continued use of the account. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Urgh, of course, I was thinking of War of the Worlds, since you mentioned Orson Welles. The article I read said she used her own Norwegian address for her account. It said she only used her friend's address for the RMA. But whatever... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Aethling, here's the problem: Amazon performed an illegal search and seizure. The only oddity is that they did so electronically, rather than physically, but that makes it no less improper of them. No contract can give them the rights to do so. If the customer did something against policy, the most Amazon can legally do is deny future service and cancel current service. They cannot legally take things that a person has already bought, nor can they maliciously modify a customer's electronic device. Even if Amazon was within its rights to demand a cessation of service and a return of goods, they are not a law enforcement agency. They would have needed to turn the matter over to the police, who would then contact the customer and retrieve the goods. And, generally speaking, in doing so they'd be required to refund the customer the original costs. It was, after all, a proper business transaction. Amazon sold a good, and so if they require a good returned, the customer is within their rights to demand a return of the monies paid. Both those things aside, the customer didn't use a fraudulent address. Address fraud is when one uses a fake (or inaccurate) address to commit theft, hides one's location from authorities, or to obtain benefits/services that they would otherwise not be legally entitled too. Norway is entitled to use UK and US coded books, so that's fine. Repair services aren't denied to Norway. It appears that the only oddity is that she used a shipping intermediary, since Amazon wouldn't ship to Norway. That is entirely acceptable, especially since that was a valid address through which she could be contacted (albeit remotely). In abstract, Amazon had no leg to stand on, and in this specific case, it had no legitimate justification. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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