5 Scholars (or 2)=Heralds

[StormingTexan he/him]

This contains extensive spoilers for Warbreaker and WoR

 

 

Ok this theory is extremely speculative without very much (if any) proof at all. I can’t get it out of my head though! So I thought I would post it here for everyone to poke plenty of holes in. 

 

There is obviously some kind of connection between Roshar and Nalthis. I do not think that can be disputed. At least a connection in that Vasher/Zahel/Knightblood are now on Roshar. I have seen others feel the same way I do that the Heralds=Returned. Not a lot of proof here it’s really just a gut feeling. The problem with this was the timeline didn’t make sense to me. Chronologically Warbreaker takes place before WoK but how much before? It does not seem like 4500 years which was the time between the breaking of the Oathpack and WoK. It would probably be many more thousands of years before the breaking of the Oathpack that the Awakened went to Roshar to become Heralds. Yet in Warbreaker it was a relitively short amount of time of 300 years that people interacted with the the 5 Scholars. That would mean Warbreaker took place many many thousands of years before WoK which does not see right. So how could Heralds=Returned? I thought about this for a while and then I thought what if that is right but it is actually Returned=Heralds meaning Returned came from Heralds more specifically the 5 Scholars came from Heralds. 

 

At the breaking of the Oathpack Jezerien tells Kalak

 

“It has been decided, Kalak. We will go our ways, and we will not seek out one another.

 

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 17). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

But what if they didn’t? Maybe they did for a couple thousand years. But maybe 5 of the Heralds decided later to seek each other out on another planet like Nalthis…It is relatively clear that Heralds can world hop that is how they get to Braize after a desolation to be tortured. 

 

So which heralds went to Nalthis ? If you thought the above is not pure crazy speculation than the following should top that. I really only have guesses for 3.

 

Shalash=Shashara  She was described as being one of the more talented Awakeners. When I think about it Awakening is somewhat similar to Illumination/Transformation. Awakening is basically transforming and inanimate object (or dead) to a animate by investiture. Is an awakened object real or just an illusion of something real? There is also some cohesion between how both are performed. Both require a “Mental Picture” not just saying “Stick become Fire”. There is also something here with the Royal Locks. More a little later why we see these similarities between Awakening and Illumination/Transformation. 

 

Deth= Nale Ok so this is just a pure guess. However Nale has the attributes Just and Confident. I think we can all agree Deth is very confident. As far as Just goes I think his desire to kill Vashar for killing his sister Shashara could be more than just revenge it could be him seeking Justice. 

 

Vasher= Kalak Ok again a pure guess here. Kalak’s attribute are Resolute and Builder. I think Vashar’s determination to stop another Manywar could be described as Resolute. Or just guilt from his involvement in the first one. As far as Builder goes there are many things I can (very loosely) tie in to this attribute. He started the Manywar which may have been his attempt to build a united kingdom. He turned (built) the Phantoms in to shadows statues to be used in case of an emergency. He basically built a monarchy/religion giving his 50k breaths to the priest. Ok I agree this is all a pretty far stretch and even as I write it I feel like I am associating these things with attributes to justify my theory. Really this is just a gut feeling.

 

Arsteel and Yessteel = ???? With the process of anatomy elimination this would have to be Jezrien and Ishar which yeah I got nada. I am however not totally convinced all 5 scholars are in fact Heralds and possible Shashara is the only Herald. 

 

So first thing you may say is wait a second you loony Texan Shashara and Deth are dead how could they now be in Roshar? Good point and completely debuncts my wacky theory. Except Heralds are immortal (at least we thinks so) and although their physical bodies may have been killed on Nalthis they are not really dead. One point to this is I thought Vashar was pretty nonchalant about killing Dent this may be because he knew it didn’t really kill “kill" him. 

 

Now for a little more crazy speculation. There was a thread (that I cannot find after searches) where Brandon signed a book and answered the question “Tell me something we do not know about Honorblades” Brandon said “One of the Heralds kept their Honoblade” I really wish I could find this thread because I cannot remember if Brandon said “his” indicating male or female or “their”. Anyway for the sake of my probably completely incorrect theory I am hoping he said “their”. I think it was Shashara that kept her Honorblade eventually bringing it to Nalthis which explains the similarities between Awakening and Illumination. They are a little different of course because as Brandon has said magic will work a little different on different planets and they are powered by a similar but different investiture. To take this a step further Shashara eventually Awakened her honorblade creating Nightblood. There is a WoB where Brandon describes Knightblood as a "broken Shardblade". It is broken because it was awakened and became sentient. 

 

Like I said before the 5 scholars may very well not all be Heralds. It may just be Shashara and Dent (would have to be both since they are siblings). I like the idea they are all Heralds maybe bored with being regular people and went to Nalthis to regain their former glory or possible Nalthis was on a path of destruction and they wanted to intervene not really sure of what the motives would have been. Would love to hear others thoughts on this if they any of this is the least bit possible. I am sure there is something glaring I am missing  that disproves al of this. 

Edited April 10, 2015 by StormingTexan

[Quiver he/him]

Interview on Theoryland, recorded on Aug 6th 2014:

  BLACKYETI

Did he [Vasher] actually come from Nalthis and not Roshar?

BRANDON SANDERSON

I’m not going to actually answer that one. Well I can answer that: yes he does come from Nalthis. It’s pretty obvious that the way that the Breath’s working, the reason he moved is because it’s easier to get Stormlight than Breaths, and Stormlight can fuel being a Returned like him. And so yes, he was born on Nalthis.. Becoming Returned without being born on Nalthis would be really hard.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Quiver

[Quiver he/him]

(Sorry for the double post- for some reason, this piece of text refused to stay outside the quote box, and obviously this is my speculation rather than part of the interview. If someone could merge these posts together, I'd be oblidged.)

As for the Herald keeping the Honorblade... I think common speculation is that that was Nale. If I remember correctly, Lift thinks she see's him glowing as if he's using stormlight, and going back for his Honorblade seems the most obvious solution for that route.

Then again, I'm not up to date on WoB at all, so i might be wrong. Still, I think it's pretty safe to assume the Five Scholars were Nalthian to begin with.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

This discussion has been had plenty of times, but you should know that you can't Return unless you are born on Nalthis (or do something very whacky to get Endowment to notice you and want you to Return). We also separately know Vasher is a Nalthian native ( I can't remember if this confirmation also confrimed the 5 Scholars are all Nalthians or not).

 

I personally disagree with this theory, that the Heralds include the Scholars (in any amount). It's unnecessarily complicated, and like you note does not have any supporting evidence other than the hopes of fans. Plus, it's a little early to be knitting the books together so closely.

 

Edit: Ninja'd

Edited April 10, 2015 by Blaze1616

[StormingTexan he/him]

The worst part is I read two words in to that WoB and made an audible Doh! I have seen it several times. Meh ok there goes that. 

 

 

 

 

I personally disagree with this theory, that the Heralds include the Scholars (in any amount). It's unnecessarily complicated, and like you note does not have any supporting evidence other than the hopes of fans. Plus, it's a little early to be knitting the books together so closely.

 

Edit: Ninja'd

 

You are correct it is overly complicated and probably just wishful thinking. I just cant shake the feeling that there is more to it than Vasher and Knightblood decided to go to Roshar. The easy explanation is Vasher decided stormlight was a lot easier to get than breath. But how did he know this? Or maybe he was just trackng down Knightblood after Nale took it somehow.

Edited April 10, 2015 by StormingTexan

[natc]

Spell Nightblood properly dammit. In English at least, since I don't think we have Nalthian script yet.

Edit: tossed in an emoticon. Looking pissed was not my conscious intention, though I admit I actually am somewhat upset today and it does look like that came through.

But seriously we need a nalthian script for the sake of our font collections.

Edited April 10, 2015 by natc

[Blaze1616 he/him]

Spell Nightblood properly dammit. In English at least, since I don't think we have Nalthian script yet.

 

It was bugging me too...

 

 

You are correct it is overly complicated and probably just wishful thinking. I just cant shake the feeling that there is more to it than Vasher and Knightblood decided to go to Roshar. The easy explanation is Vasher decided stormlight was a lot easier to get than breath. But how did he know this? Or maybe he was just trackng down Knightblood after Nale took it somehow.

 

Well, as I've said in other threads, Nale couldn't go get Nightblood, as he's bound to the Greater Roshar system. I personally think Vasher went to Roshar with Nightblood, and Nale found out about the sword and its similarities to Shardblades, and then stole it. Vasher knows Hoid, so it's possible Hoid informed him after seeiing the personal dilema that Vasher undergoes when taking Breaths. It's also possible another worldhopper informs Vasher sometime after Warbreaker (and possibly before or after Nightblood). There's easy explanations.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Spell Nightblood properly dammit. In English at least, since I don't think we have Nalthian script yet.

 

In the future could you try to be more polite?  It is possible to point out a mistake someone is making without coming across as incredibly rude.

[natc]

Yeah, storming terrible day today. My bad.

Though it was partly supposed to sound frustratingly cynical rather than pissed. Guess I'll edit an emoticon into it.

[StormingTexan he/him]

Spell Nightblood properly dammit. In English at least, since I don't think we have Nalthian script yet.

Edit: tossed in an emoticon. Looking pissed was not my conscious intention, though I admit I actually am somewhat upset today and it does look like that came through.

But seriously we need a nalthian script for the sake of our font collections.

 

 

Yeah thats from just listening to the audiobook although I bought the E-book later to read it too. I dunno why but I spelled it as in "Knight" for some reason in my head instead of "Night" while listening to the audiobook probably because I had just got done with the SA books and read/thought of Knights Radiant and it obviously stuck. 

Edited April 10, 2015 by StormingTexan

[gjustice99 she/her]

We have a WOB that the Heralds cannot leave Roshar (sorry if someone has already said this)

[Purelake Earthquake he/him]

Word of Brandon on the timeline:

 

Q:  Do you keep a timeline for your Cosmere books? I'm assuming the events from books such as Elantris and Warbreaker happen before the Stormlight Archives but I'm curious about how much time has passed whether it is months/years/centuries.    

 

 A:Centuries have passed. I think we're closer to a thousand years covering events you could place on the line, with closer to ten thousand years since inciting incidents.

 

Source: 

http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/2ytg2h/im_novelist_brandon_sanderson_ama/cq4f2ck?context=3

Edited April 10, 2015 by Purelake Earthquake