IAmTheBeard Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Did I just have my mind blown? Brandon recently confirmed that the mural in Elantris, the one that showed the Elantrians and the lake, is a key to how traveling between realms works in the Cosmere. So it's very likely that the lake is a gate to a different realm - could be the cognitive, could be the spiritual. I'd have to say the Cognitive, because of the white sun represented on the mural. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I don't remember a white sun. The only feature of interest I recall is the lake, pictured as a disc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Lately I've been thinking that the lake, pictured as a disk, isn't really a lake at all, but a planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmTheBeard Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 There is a blue oval and a white sphere. As far as I can tell, they represent the Shardpool and something on the other side of the "gate." Since tWoK, I've assumed that it's Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm. It's a black sky with a white sphere. “Over there,” Karata said, pointing at the far end of the rectangular room, where the wall held only a single mural. It depicted a large mirrorlike blue oval. An Elantrian stood facing the oval, his arms outstretched and his eyes closed. He appeared to be flying toward the blue disk. The rest of the wall was black, though there was a large white sphere on the other side of the oval. “Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent. “It’s painted sideways,” Karata realized. “See, he’s falling into a lake.” Raoden nodded. The Elantrian in the picture wasn’t flying, he was falling. The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore. “It’s like the water was considered a gate of some sort,” Galladon said, head cocked to the side. Oh, and Galladon thinks it represents the pool as a gate. So, two questions. Is this Dominion or Devotion's "perpendicularity"? And is there a canonical term for Shardpool? Perpendicularity isn't canon yet, right? It was mentioned in a WoB... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 There is a blue oval and a white sphere. As far as I can tell, they represent the Shardpool and something on the other side of the "gate." Since tWoK, I've assumed that it's Shadesmar/the Cognitive Realm. It's a black sky with a white sphere. Oh, and Galladon thinks it represents the pool as a gate. So, two questions. Is this Dominion or Devotion's "perpendicularity"? And is there a canonical term for Shardpool? Perpendicularity isn't canon yet, right? It was mentioned in a WoB... I always (since the definition of the Shadesmar on tWoK) asumed that The Lake being "Devotion's Shardpool" or "Devotion's Perpendicularity" was canon. That there was a way to go to the Cognitive Realm through The Lake the same way it seems that Hoid came from the Cognitive Realm on the Horneater's Lake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Definitely could be Shadesmar, but read another way it could be an Elantrian falling towards a planet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmTheBeard Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Definitely could be Shadesmar, but read another way it could be an Elantrian falling towards a planet. The Elantrian isn't falling toward the white sphere, it's falling toward the blue oval, which is explicitly described as a lake. So the Elantrian is falling into the lake. The white sphere is on the other side, set into the black wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I hereby issue a request that someone with the book/eBook handy just quote the entire passage here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 IAmTheBeard did it 4-5 comments ago “Over there,” Karata said, pointing at the far end of the rectangular room, where the wall held only a single mural. It depicted a large mirrorlike blue oval. An Elantrian stood facing the oval, his arms outstretched and his eyes closed. He appeared to be flying toward the blue disk. The rest of the wall was black, though there was a large white sphere on the other side of the oval. “Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent. “It’s painted sideways,” Karata realized. “See, he’s falling into a lake.” Raoden nodded. The Elantrian in the picture wasn’t flying, he was falling. The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore. “It’s like the water was considered a gate of some sort,” Galladon said, head cocked to the side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 That s/he did. My apologies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I know he isn't falling toward the white sphere. In my mind, I see him falling towards a blue planet, the black walls representing outer space. They just assume it's a lake as a gateway because they don't have the concepts for planets and space. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 "... a place with a black sky and a strange, small white sun that hung on the horizon ... Flames hovered nearby ... Like the tips of candles floating in the air and moving with the wind ... An endless dark sea, except it wasn't wet. It was made of the small beads, an entire ocean of tiny glass spheres" -WoK Chapter 45 I believe that the "floating candles" on the definition given by Shallan are spren, but other than that... the definition is the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Yep, but I'm still going to tenaciously cling to my theory that it depicts an Elantrian falling towards a planet despite the fact that Shadesmar obviously fits better with this description. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Well, yeah, but this guy probably has probably been through the pool already, or has seen others do it and knows what lies beyond. Hoid can navigate it, after all, so it's not impossible Sanderson himself said that it's incredibly dangerous but not impossible. My theory es that there's somthing about Sel's Shadesmar related to the death of both Devotion and Dominion. It can be a "storm" of raw investiture raging without control or the "Wasteland Shadesmar" that Sanderson talked about on the AMA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmTheBeard Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm a he, hence the beard. Thanks for that quote, Axies. I was going to grab it next. “Lake.” The old Elantrian’s voice was quiet but insistent. ... The oval was the surface of a lake, lines on its sides depicting a shore. The Elantrian, who presumably knows what it is, calls it a lake and it's apparently recognizable as a lake from the mural. As well, remember that Brandon just revealed that this was the "big hint" in Elantris for how Worldhopping works. So far, we're pretty sure that Hoit, the Seventeenth Shard, and others aren't using space travel for that. So I don't think that the Elantrians had space travel. I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think this is pretty much confirmation that the Shardpools are the Perpendicularities and that they grant access to the Cognitive Realm. Edit: Sorry about all the repeated posts! The internet is being wonky... Edited July 28, 2015 by IAmTheBeard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm a he, hence the beard. Thanks for that quote, Axies. I was going to grab it next. The Elantrian, who presumably knows what it is, calls it a lake and it's apparently recognizable as a lake from the mural. As well, remember that Brandon just revealed that this was the "big hint" in Elantris for how Worldhopping works. So far, we're pretty sure that Hoit, the Seventeenth Shard, and others aren't using space travel for that. So I don't think that the Elantrians had space travel. I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think this is pretty much confirmation that the Shardpools are the Perpendicularities and that they grant access to the Cognitive Realm. Edit: Sorry about all the repeated posts! The internet is being wonky... To add this using that weird thing known as logic, We know Galladon later worldhops, so it isn't a stretch to say he uses the Devotions Shardpool / Perpendicularity in Elantris that he actively has access to, to leave Sel. Also, complete speculation but I suspect that Dominion's Shardpool is either in Dahkor Monastery or Wyrn's palace. Edited July 28, 2015 by Iron Eyes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axies Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 To add this using that weird thing known as logic, We know Galladon later worldhops, so it isn't a stretch to say he uses the Devotions Shardpool / Perpendicularity in Elantris that he actively has access to, to leave Sel. Also, complete speculation but I suspect that Dominion's Shardpool is either in Dahkor Monastery or Wyrn's palace. OMG!! You dare to use logic!! Someone take this guy out of the internet right now! I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one that suspects about Dominion's Shardpool being on a Monastery/Palace... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Playing Devil's Advocate, just because they say the mural is apparently painted sideways doesn't necessarily mean it is and it could very well depend on how you look at it, a la falling towards a planet/walking towards a disc etc etc. (very loose point i know, but surely it would have made more sense to paint it more accurately and with the correct actions to prevent this minor quibble? The only thing i don't get is why a falling action, i mean surely simply leaning back or walking into it would suffice as the other Elantrians did (are they planning on belly flopping straight through to Shadesmar or what?) One thing that sticks out to me - wasn't the well from mistborn relatively smaller than this lake (presumably Devotion's Sharpool/Perpendicularity)? What is the cause/Why is this the case? hmm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marns Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 One thing that sticks out to me - wasn't the well from mistborn relatively smaller than this lake (presumably Devotion's Sharpool/Perpendicularity)? What is the cause/Why is this the case? hmm Maybe because the fauna on Scadrial? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 How big was the lake though? I don't remember exact description, but the impression I got is that it's no more than a few yards in each direction - more the size of a small swimming pool than a lake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sovereign Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) How big was the lake though? I don't remember exact description, but the impression I got is that it's no more than a few yards in each direction - more the size of a small swimming pool than a lake. "Raoden frowned. The 'Lake' was barely ten feet deep, more like a pool." Elantris pg 355 The width of the pool isn't directly referenced, but I agree with you Argent. The implication is that it is basically the deep end of a swimming pool. Edited July 29, 2015 by Iron Eyes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Hmm, well according to coppermind, the Well was only a few feet wide and was in a shallow depression of rock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Still, neither one is a massive pool of liquid. The size difference is insignificant for the purposes of the argument I was addressing, I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Oh i know, it was just something that stuck out to me. As for the original question, i think it could be possible that might die if they really wanted to, should they enter the pool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arook Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 So a thought just struck me. If Spren can pull themselves into the Physical realm more by attaching themselves to a human(shardblade) and it appears that those humans can pull themselves into the cognitive using that same link. Then maybe what is need to enter the a realm to a greater extent is an anchor of sorts (Something that originates in that realm). If the Pools like the one in Elantris are investiture that have gained intelligence they may be able to act as that anchor for people that enter them. This would imply that all people with a Nahel bond are able to touch shadesmar. I wish we knew more about what a person exists as in the cognitive realm. That information would help a lot to understand what happened to the Elantrians that dissolved in the pool. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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