Some Thoughts After Reading Book 1 And 2

[GreySpren]

Ok, so it has been bugging me a bit while reading book two. I truly dislike the way Vin and Elend were practically useless, while the whole time Vin was insisting in her head that Elend was a better man than Kelsier was, and that Kelsier was brutal and careless. Which of what I've read I don't see it as true. In fact Vin seems much scarier and unstable. Not only that but after all her moaning about Kelsier, she managed to get manipulated and killed hundreds out of pure anger.

 

To me Kelsier made The Final Empire a more interesting book. It's not like he had all the answers or was all powerful beefed up with Duralumin. He was Mistborn for 2 years and in that time he took the empire down on it's knees. He did what he had to do, despite how it looked to his friends. And in all that he had a more vulnerable side, which was left unexplored.

 

Fastforward to book two and it's all inner monologues of Vin and Elend moaning and for what? I understand, that it's completely normal for them to have their inner struggle, but Elend was a nobleman, that was basically still that and Vin was a street kid turned king's consort and Mistborn. Both of them have had their struggles, yet I don't feel they've felt loss the same way Kell did at the Pits and before, and he had no one to save him and make it better the way Vin had. So it's like these self doubts came out of thin air.

 

All in all Vin is becoming increasingly more powerful, but I struggle to find her battles and her character exciting. I don't really have that feeling, that I want her to win, that I want her to succeed, like I do with Kelsier or Kaladin. Every time she does the right thing, she just slumps back into mentally ill mode and degrades for no apparent reason, then out of nowhere she's back at full mental and physical capacity and she's kicking chull. She's the most illogical of all of Brandons characters.

 

I mean going by the logic of Vin, Kelsier was the one who was supposed to be brute forcing his way to success, yet what he achieved was a result of his meticulous plan. Actually she was the one depending on raw power and intimidation, prowling all dark and scary around Elends enemies.

 

God I hope book 3 will have less whining. I wish I had more free time to bite it right now. I wish Kell was alive, he made things interesting...

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I also felt that book two had some weird things going on with how Vin remembered Kelsier and how her whole character development went about. But she had a very different childhood experience than any of us, and lives in a different world from us, so I blame some of her thoughts on that. Book three is very satisfying as a conclusion to an overall good series. The endings get progressively better throughout the series, and book 3 has some very interesting character development in almost all of the remaining members of Kelsier's crew.

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

Ok, so it has been bugging me a bit while reading book two. I truly dislike the way Vin and Elend were practically useless, while the whole time Vin was insisting in her head that Elend was a better man than Kelsier was, and that Kelsier was brutal and careless. Which of what I've read I don't see it as true. In fact Vin seems much scarier and unstable. Not only that but after all her moaning about Kelsier, she managed to get manipulated and killed hundreds out of pure anger.

 

To me Kelsier made The Final Empire a more interesting book. It's not like he had all the answers or was all powerful beefed up with Duralumin. He was Mistborn for 2 years and in that time he took the empire down on it's knees. He did what he had to do, despite how it looked to his friends. And in all that he had a more vulnerable side, which was left unexplored.

 

Fastforward to book two and it's all inner monologues of Vin and Elend moaning and for what? I understand, that it's completely normal for them to have their inner struggle, but Elend was a nobleman, that was basically still that and Vin was a street kid turned king's consort and Mistborn. Both of them have had their struggles, yet I don't feel they've felt loss the same way Kell did at the Pits and before, and he had no one to save him and make it better the way Vin had. So it's like these self doubts came out of thin air.

 

I felt the same way. Well of Ascension is, without a doubt, the slowest novel in the Cosmere, and the characters are very... self-focused. It wasn't until after I finished the series that I actually went back and decided that that book was OK

 

God I hope book 3 will have less whining. I wish I had more free time to bite it right now. I wish Kell was alive, he made things interesting...

 

If you liked "Conflicted Vin", you'll love "Depressed Sazed"

 

Though at least Hero of Ages has the Spook subplot to liven things up.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Voidus]

The thing about Kell is that as much as I love him he is a bit of a sociopath, he is completely indifferent towards the wanton slaughter of countless Noblemen and even Skaa who have sided with them. And while his goals may have been just his methods were not and the entire time he was still trying to maintain his position as the centre of all attention, his plan for overthrowing the Final Empire was to turn himself into a figure of worship.

[GreySpren]

The thing about Kell is that as much as I love him he is a bit of a sociopath, he is completely indifferent towards the wanton slaughter of countless Noblemen and even Skaa who have sided with them. And while his goals may have been just his methods were not and the entire time he was still trying to maintain his position as the centre of all attention, his plan for overthrowing the Final Empire was to turn himself into a figure of worship.

 

Sociopaths care only for themselves. Kelsier was perceived to be one, even by his friends, but he never really was that. He wasn't even that careless with his killings. He did what he felt must be done. He did it for Mare's dream. Up until his very end everyone thought he was a maniac with a massive ego, but it turns out that what he did. he did of necessity and with purpose. He sacrificed himself so that people can be free of the Lord Ruler.

 

Vin always criticized him in her mind, but in Well of Ascension, she did the same thing, killed hundreds of skaa guards and noblemen, killed Straff, she killed all the way through. But I don't know, I guess she felt sorry? Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical? I mean Kell was upfront with his hatred for the noblemen, but he didn't just kill them for fun, he killed them because he had to. Vin also had to kill them, and in the end she did it just like Kell. Actually out of her and Elend, it was Elend who kept true to his word and his intentions, even though he was completely wrong to let greedy people basically usurp him and he even admits it at the end of the book.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Kelsier is clinically a psychopath, it's WoB:
 

Austin Teen Book Festival

What character of yours would be a great addition to Game of Thrones?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha! I don't know if I hate any of my characters enough to do that to them! What interesting questions you have! I think Kelsier from Mistborn would probably fit in the best. Not a lot of people pick up on this, but Kelsier is actually a psychopath. He likes to kill people. He takes pleasure and joy in it. He only lets this side of himself out once in a while, but there are points in the book where he takes down a nobleman, and he's just gleeful about the ability and the chance to do it.

In the Mistborn world, he's a hero because the people Kelsier is killing are oppressors. Part of the fun of writing him was the idea that in another story, if things had gone differently, he'd be the villain. But in this story, Kelsier is the hero, and it's because he's able to channel his being a psychopath into a noble cause, but still, there's a danger behind Kelsier's eyes that might let him survive in Westeros better than a lot of my other characters.

[GreySpren]

This is very curious!

 

But Brandon himself says, that it's a side of him. I've read Final Empire a week ago and it's still fresh in my mind. The Kelsier chapters do indeed show, that he enjoyed killing those noblemen, but they also show him as a very decent person. I don't think, that he would have enjoyed killing just anybody. At least from what his chapters depict him. There was kindness behind the danger, that much is unmistakable. However I will admit I am not certain he truly cared about the skaa. If he was a complete psycho killer, he would have never sacrificed himself, it makes no sense, I don't think he did it to become a god, I don't think he cared about that. Has Brandon ever given any insight why he made that decision?

[ThirdGen]

Ok, so it has been bugging me a bit while reading book two. I truly dislike the way Vin and Elend were practically useless, while the whole time Vin was insisting in her head that Elend was a better man than Kelsier was, and that Kelsier was brutal and careless. Which of what I've read I don't see it as true. In fact Vin seems much scarier and unstable. Not only that but after all her moaning about Kelsier, she managed to get manipulated and killed hundreds out of pure anger.

 

To me Kelsier made The Final Empire a more interesting book. It's not like he had all the answers or was all powerful beefed up with Duralumin. He was Mistborn for 2 years and in that time he took the empire down on it's knees. He did what he had to do, despite how it looked to his friends. And in all that he had a more vulnerable side, which was left unexplored.

 

Fastforward to book two and it's all inner monologues of Vin and Elend moaning and for what? I understand, that it's completely normal for them to have their inner struggle, but Elend was a nobleman, that was basically still that and Vin was a street kid turned king's consort and Mistborn. Both of them have had their struggles, yet I don't feel they've felt loss the same way Kell did at the Pits and before, and he had no one to save him and make it better the way Vin had. So it's like these self doubts came out of thin air.

 

All in all Vin is becoming increasingly more powerful, but I struggle to find her battles and her character exciting. I don't really have that feeling, that I want her to win, that I want her to succeed, like I do with Kelsier or Kaladin. Every time she does the right thing, she just slumps back into mentally ill mode and degrades for no apparent reason, then out of nowhere she's back at full mental and physical capacity and she's kicking chull. She's the most illogical of all of Brandons characters.

 

I mean going by the logic of Vin, Kelsier was the one who was supposed to be brute forcing his way to success, yet what he achieved was a result of his meticulous plan. Actually she was the one depending on raw power and intimidation, prowling all dark and scary around Elends enemies.

 

God I hope book 3 will have less whining. I wish I had more free time to bite it right now. I wish Kell was alive, he made things interesting...

 

I like Well of Ascension the most out of the series because of the territory it explores - it's that moment in any revolution where you seize the control everyone thought you'd never get, and you're immediately surrounded by hostile forces as a result.

 

Book 3 will give you an interesting excuse for some of Vin's needless self-loathing.  But on top of that, it's how someone who has been beaten into submission her whole life rationalizes things - a combination of excuses as to why her life is the way it is (she's not worthy, her enemies can't be defeated, etc.).  It's jarring to her to actually be powerful.  Her worldview hasn't caught up yet.

 

"Both of them have had their struggles, yet I don't feel they've felt loss the same way Kell did at the Pits and before, and he had no one to save him and make it better the way Vin had."

 

This will be foremost in their minds going into Book 3.

 

"She's the most illogical of all of Brandons characters."

 

Wait 'till you meet Wayne.

[Kaymyth she/her]

 

"She's the most illogical of all of Brandons characters."

 

Wait 'till you meet Wayne.

 

Ahahaha!  Oh, dear.  Yes.  Hee.  *tearwipe*

 

Wayne is the best.

[Awesomness]

This is very curious!

 

But Brandon himself says, that it's a side of him. I've read Final Empire a week ago and it's still fresh in my mind. The Kelsier chapters do indeed show, that he enjoyed killing those noblemen, but they also show him as a very decent person. I don't think, that he would have enjoyed killing just anybody. At least from what his chapters depict him. There was kindness behind the danger, that much is unmistakable. However I will admit I am not certain he truly cared about the skaa. If he was a complete psycho killer, he would have never sacrificed himself, it makes no sense, I don't think he did it to become a god, I don't think he cared about that. Has Brandon ever given any insight why he made that decision?

I think you are missing some layers of his character.

Kelsier wasn´t bad, as Brandon said, he was a sociopath, and he channeled it to make the better of it. Kelsier is a grey character, that´s what makes him interesting.

On the other hand, Vin could see that, even though he was the person who changed her life for the better. It´s not that she hated him. On the contrary, she just saw throw him.

[spencer12347 he/him]

I loved Elend in book 2 and absolutely hated him in book 3 but you will probably like him now that he is mistborn. I felt that this book for Vin was for her to grow into her own character. In the first one she is still being introduced and is somewhat dependent on others. In this book she does more things on her own and more subplots. I think this was used to show us who Vin really was and added needed depth we didn't have in the 1st

[Worldhopper he/him]

Just started a reread of Mistborn, I'm looking forward to WOA now, as I'm sure on a reread they'll be character developments that make better sense once you know where things are going. I understood Vin's need for gloomyness yet it was still annoying at times.

[Lindel he/him]

I think there's some confusion on the definition of psychopath. A psychopath (or sociopath) is defined by a lack of remorse, diminished empathy, and disinhibited behavior. It has nothing to do with carelessness or taking pleasure in killing. Kelsier's psychopathy means he can take actions without regard to the harm he does to other people. He lacks inhibitions. He's able to enjoy the sport of it because he's a psychopath. 

 

But there's nothing in the diagnosis of a psychopath that says they only care about themselves, or that they're "bad" people. That's not what it means to be a psychopath. Yes, he cared about the skaa. Yes, he was also a psychopath. There's nothing contradictory about that. He has a harder time empathizing with others, but he's not heartless. 

[Lirins hand]

I think once you get to the end of Book 3, the inner struggles of Vin and her mood swings make more sense.  Not all of her struggles are natural to her/her personality/her hard life/etc.  There is a bit of a pattern to it and, for me at least, an "aha!" moment when it became clear.

 

Some of it is definitely her growing from a life of being unseen (or trying to) to being the king's consort and hero of the land.  I think maybe we're used to the hero "just doing it" in most other books/series, but in real life people don't make a world-change so easily and a lot of it played "real" to me.