Who Is Actually A Radiant?

[VoidReleaser]

I disagree with Adolin becoming an Edgedancer, even after my reread. It just doesn't add up in my opinion. Yes, he's friendly, lovable, charismatic, has a graceful style while he duels, and his Shardblade has vines when he summons it. But that doesn't equate to him becoming an Edgedancer, ESPECIALLY since he already has Lift as the Edgedancer whom he'll be dedicating a book to in the late series. It makes no sense for Brandon to dedicate two books to TWO Edgedancers. For what? 

 

As far as his Shardblade belonging to a Edgedancer, well, Adolin did discard his blade after he murdered Sadeas. The lost of his cherished blade, a long with the murder and the events to follow after the murder is what will break Adolin spiritually. He will guilt himself, for possibly setting his father plan back. He will probably isolate himself or maybe Dalinar will be force to exile his son.

 

One quote stood out to me, that seems to line up with what a Dustbringer is even though we have little information about them from the epigraphs.

 

 

Passionate, with an intense smoldering resolve. A leashed anger that he used, because he had dominated it...

 

 

A long with this quote...

 

 

... , the very small part that wasn't completely, totally, and irrevocably enraged.

 

We have WoB that some orders would applaud the deed that Adolin has done, while some will frown upon it (Skybreakers and Windrunners. I have no clue why people he has a shot with the two) and when pressured, he nodded when someone asked if the Dustbringers will approve. The Dustbringers seem like an Order that will do what the others won't. To me, the Dustbringer seems like an Order that belives, ' The ends justify the means. ' They are an Order who the Heralds send out as a last resort. Leave no witnesses. Burn everything to the ground. 

 

If anyone reads The Dresden Files, I'd even line up the Dustbringers to the Ebenezar and the Black Staff. I don't have the exact quote, but I do remember Jim stating that there isn't a special election for it, all it'd take is for someone crazy enough to pick up the Staff, knowing exactly what the role entails. Someone BRAVE enough to do what no one else will, and someone OBEDIENT enough to Honor to not stray.

 

The Dustbringers seem like an Order, who will have to do what is necessary, even though it's illegal in the eyes of the law ( Skybreakers ), and to protect ( Windrunners ) innocent from the Voidbringers, they will have to destroy with an extreme prejudice, and are the ones brave enough to stand tall (Stonewards) while doing the deed, while others will hesitate.

 

We have 10 books, dedicated to 10 orders.

 

Windrunner ( Kaladin )

Skybreaker ( Szeth )

Edgedancer ( Lift )

Bondsmith ( Dalinar )

Lightweaver ( Shallan )

Elsecaller ( Jasnah )

Truthwatcher ( Renarian )

Stonewards ( Taln/Not!Taln? )

 

Which only leaves to.

 

Eshonai or maybe even Sebariel as a Willshaper (though I doubt the later), and Adolin who has my vote as Dustbringer.

[Aleksiel]

.....

 

Main KR, flashback characters and PoV characters are three different things. Plus Adolin isn't getting a book. Shalash is getting flashbacks in the second five for now, and she is the original Lightweaver. Do not make the mistake to think just because every Oder gets a book the flashback character will be of the same Order. There will be more than one character per Order and a main character of an Order from the first half may or may not appear or be one in the second.

 

Do not base your opinion on outline reasons, look for what makes sense in-world.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Aleksiel

[VoidReleaser]

There will be more than one character per Order and a main character of an Order from the first half may or may not appear or be one in the second.

 

Do not base your opinion on outline reasons, look for what makes sense in-world.

 

Where has this been stated?

[maxal she/her]

Main KR, flashback characters and PoV characters are three different things. Plus Adolin isn't getting a book. Shalash is getting flashbacks in the second five for now, and she is the original Lightweaver. Do not make the mistake to think just because every Oder gets a book the flashback character will be of the same Order. There will be more than one character per Order and a main character of an Order from the first half may or may not appear or be one in the second.

 

Do not base your opinion on outline reasons, look for what makes sense in-world.

 

You are stealing the words from my mouth.

 

Here is the appropriate WoB:

 

"Well each one is going to cover a flashback sequence for one of the characters and each one will focus on a different order of the Knights Radiant. And that's not always the same, like the flashbacks for the first one were Kaladin and it was also Windrunners, but we won't always have them be the exact same."

 

Brandon never stated Lift's flashback book would also feature Lift as the major KR. In fact, he never confirmed she would be the major Edgedancer, neither did he ever stated we would never get major KR from the same Order.

 

 

I disagree with Adolin becoming an Edgedancer, even after my reread. It just doesn't add up in my opinion. Yes, he's friendly, lovable, charismatic, has a graceful style while he duels, and his Shardblade has vines when he summons it. But that doesn't equate to him becoming an Edgedancer, ESPECIALLY since he already has Lift as the Edgedancer whom he'll be dedicating a book to in the late series. It makes no sense for Brandon to dedicate two books to TWO Edgedancers. For what?

 

The fact his Blade materialize with vines indicates the Blade belonged to an Edgedancer. This has been confirmed by Brandon:

 

Me- So I noticed during my last read through of WoR that when Adolin summoned his blade, it formed from mist in the shape of vines. Does this mean that the Radiant that the blade was originally bonded to was an Edgedancer?

Brandon- Yes, yes it does. (He also had a huge mischievous smile)

Me- So I was wondering, if Adolin were to make the same exact oaths, could the Shardblade be revived?

Brandon- Something more would have to happen.

Me- So it could happen if something else also happened?

Brandon- Yes.

 

There is no further discussion to be had about his Blade. We have the confirmation what some of us guesses in advance (not myself, but much more smarter and observant persons than I ) was cannon. If he were to revive his Blade, he would become an Edgedancer. The only way for him to become a Dustbringer would be to discard his beloved Blade and bound a random Dustbringer spren, which is not impossible, but Adolin casually throwing away his Blade in the same manner Dalinar did Oathbringer seems very out-of-character. We are speaking of Adolin, the boy who invest himself heavily into objects...

 

 

As far as his Shardblade belonging to a Edgedancer, well, Adolin did discard his blade after he murdered Sadeas. The lost of his cherished blade, a long with the murder and the events to follow after the murder is what will break Adolin spiritually. He will guilt himself, for possibly setting his father plan back. He will probably isolate himself or maybe Dalinar will be force to exile his son.

 

Where are you getting he discarded his Blade? He did no such thing. He threw away Oathbringer, his father's former Blade now bounded to Sadeas, but he never ever discarded his own Blade. Of course, he'll feel guilty: he betrayed his cherish boyhood hero he calls Father. Sure, he'll isolate himself, he was already in the process of isolating himself simply because coping with the return of the Radiants was too much for him to bear.

 

I do not think Dalinar would exile Adolin, not based on the recent WoB. Brandon said Adolin has legitimate moral ground to justify his actions and he did not violate some of the morality on Roshar. The Kohlins will find a way to wiggle Adolin out of the worst fate, but it won't prevent him from destroying the hero-worship relationship he has with his father.

 

 

 

We have WoB that some orders would applaud the deed that Adolin has done, while some will frown upon it (Skybreakers and Windrunners. I have no clue why people he has a shot with the two) and when pressured, he nodded when someone asked if the Dustbringers will approve. The Dustbringers seem like an Order that will do what the others won't. To me, the Dustbringer seems like an Order that belives, ' The ends justify the means. ' They are an Order who the Heralds send out as a last resort. Leave no witnesses. Burn everything to the ground.

 

This is an old WoB... Brandon stated Willshapers and Dustbringers would approve while Skybreakers would disapprove. He did not say he would join either of these orders. In fact, Brandon has always been evasive when answering the Adolin's questions. The nod means nothing. As far as we know, it could be a massive Red Hearing we all misinterpreted in our inner desire to have join become a DB (a popular theory).

 

 

We have 10 books, dedicated to 10 orders.

 

Windrunner ( Kaladin )

Skybreaker ( Szeth )

Edgedancer ( Lift )

Bondsmith ( Dalinar )

Lightweaver ( Shallan )

Elsecaller ( Jasnah )

Truthwatcher ( Renarian )

Stonewards ( Taln/Not!Taln? )

 

Which only leaves to.

 

Eshonai or maybe even Sebariel as a Willshaper (though I doubt the later), and Adolin who has my vote as Dustbringer.

 

No. You interpreted the line-up wrong. These are the flashback characters, not the featured orders. Huge difference. They won't all align either. See my response at the top of this post. For example, I strongly suspect next book will feature Truthwatchers. I also do not believe Szeth will become a Radiant. Eshonai, I am less certain as she did have a comet-like spren fleeing away from her which Brandon confirmed was related to one of the Orders.

[maxal she/her]

Where has this been stated?

 

See my post. I put the WoB in It's a hard one to find... Not many people has read it.

[VoidReleaser]

You are stealing the words from my mouth.

 

Here is the appropriate WoB:

 

"Well each one is going to cover a flashback sequence for one of the characters and each one will focus on a different order of the Knights Radiant. And that's not always the same, like the flashbacks for the first one were Kaladin and it was also Windrunners, but we won't always have them be the exact same."

 

Brandon never stated Lift's flashback book would also feature Lift as the major KR. In fact, he never confirmed she would be the major Edgedancer, neither did he ever stated we would never get major KR from the same Order.

 

 

 

The fact his Blade materialize with vines indicates the Blade belonged to an Edgedancer. This has been confirmed by Brandon:

 

Me- So I noticed during my last read through of WoR that when Adolin summoned his blade, it formed from mist in the shape of vines. Does this mean that the Radiant that the blade was originally bonded to was an Edgedancer?

Brandon- Yes, yes it does. (He also had a huge mischievous smile)

Me- So I was wondering, if Adolin were to make the same exact oaths, could the Shardblade be revived?

Brandon- Something more would have to happen.

Me- So it could happen if something else also happened?

Brandon- Yes.

 

There is no further discussion to be had about his Blade. We have the confirmation what some of us guesses in advance (not myself, but much more smarter and observant persons than I ) was cannon. If he were to revive his Blade, he would become an Edgedancer. The only way for him to become a Dustbringer would be to discard his beloved Blade and bound a random Dustbringer spren, which is not impossible, but Adolin casually throwing away his Blade in the same manner Dalinar did Oathbringer seems very out-of-character. We are speaking of Adolin, the boy who invest himself heavily into objects...

 

 

 

Where are you getting he discarded his Blade? He did no such thing. He threw away Oathbringer, his father's former Blade now bounded to Sadeas, but he never ever discarded his own Blade. Of course, he'll feel guilty: he betrayed his cherish boyhood hero he calls Father. Sure, he'll isolate himself, he was already in the process of isolating himself simply because coping with the return of the Radiants was too much for him to bear.

 

I do not think Dalinar would exile Adolin, not based on the recent WoB. Brandon said Adolin has legitimate moral ground to justify his actions and he did not violate some of the morality on Roshar. The Kohlins will find a way to wiggle Adolin out of the worst fate, but it won't prevent him from destroying the hero-worship relationship he has with his father.

 

 

 

This is an old WoB... Brandon stated Willshapers and Dustbringers would approve while Skybreakers would disapprove. He did not say he would join either of these orders. In fact, Brandon has always been evasive when answering the Adolin's questions. The nod means nothing. As far as we know, it could be a massive Red Hearing we all misinterpreted in our inner desire to have join become a DB (a popular theory).

 

 

No. You interpreted the line-up wrong. These are the flashback characters, not the featured orders. Huge difference. They won't all align either. See my response at the top of this post. For example, I strongly suspect next book will feature Truthwatchers. I also do not believe Szeth will become a Radiant. Eshonai, I am less certain as she did have a comet-like spren fleeing away from her which Brandon confirmed was related to one of the Orders.

 

 

See my post. I put the WoB in It's a hard one to find... Not many people has read it.

 

Okay, I'll backdown on those parts. You guys have that.

 

I wasn't saying his blade wasn't an Edgedancer Shardblade, I was saying that it in fact was an ED Shardblade and I assumed he discarded it after he murdered Sadeas.

 

I'm still in the Adolin will become a Dustbringer boat.

 

Well, hoping seeing that my entire lineup was wrong.

 

Back to the old drawing board.

Edited March 22, 2015 by VoidReleaser

[maxal she/her]

Okay, I'll backdown on those parts. You guys have that.

 

I wasn't saying his blade wasn't an Edgedancer Shardblade, I was saying that it in fact was an ED Shardblade and I assumed he discarded it after he murdered Sadeas.

 

I'm still in the Adolin will become a Dustbringer boat.

 

Well, hoping seeing that my entire lineup was wrong.

 

Back to the old drawing board.

 

It's OK. Tracking down these WoB is not easy. Those I put there are recent and not widely known yet.

 

He didn't discard it. I guess you must have been mixed up with him throwing away Oathbringer. His own Blade, he still has.

 

Still a  valid boat, but not mine as the "Adolin revives his Blade" has too much potential. Besides, based on all discussion to be had, Edgedancer may not be the obvious choice, it makes sense when all the pieces are put together.

 

We don't know what the exact line-up will be... All we know is the next three flashback will be Szeth, Eshonai and Dalinar, but we do not know in which order. We do not know which order will be the focus of these books. Everyone has assumed it would follow the pattern establish with the first two books, but this was disapproved recently. So yeah, back to the drawing board. I have a few ideas of where Brandon may be going, but guessing Brandon is hard.

[VoidReleaser]

It's OK. Tracking down these WoB is not easy. Those I put there are recent and not widely known yet.

 

He didn't discard it. I guess you must have been mixed up with him throwing away Oathbringer. His own Blade, he still has.

 

Still a  valid boat, but not mine as the "Adolin revives his Blade" has too much potential. Besides, based on all discussion to be had, Edgedancer may not be the obvious choice, it makes sense when all the pieces are put together.

 

We don't know what the exact line-up will be... All we know is the next three flashback will be Szeth, Eshonai and Dalinar, but we do not know in which order. We do not know which order will be the focus of these books. Everyone has assumed it would follow the pattern establish with the first two books, but this was disapproved recently. So yeah, back to the drawing board. I have a few ideas of where Brandon may be going, but guessing Brandon is hard.

 

True.

 

Maybe it's just my personal view on Adolin, but I just don't see him as a Edgedancer.

 

Hence, the description I had of the Dustbringers earlier, is something he'd be reluctant to at first, but overtime gradually accept as something necessary he'd pledge his oaths to.

 

Controlled anger. The man Dalinar will have to send out to due what is necessary, when all us fails.

 

If only 17th Shard had a chance for a questionare with Brandon, although I have a feeling most of our questions would be RAFO'd.

Edited March 22, 2015 by VoidReleaser

[maxal she/her]

 

Maybe it's just my personal view on Adolin, but I just don't see him as a Edgedancer

 

Then I'll have to work harder to convince you I do not expect to sway people over in a fortnight, but I do hope to have people think pass the first appearances when it comes to Adolin and see this theory has merit

 

 

 

Hence, the description I had of the Dustbringers earlier, is something he'd be reluctant to at first, but overtime gradually accept as something necessary he'd pledge his oaths to.

 

 

Controlled anger. The man Dalinar will have to send out to due what is necessary, when all us fails.

 

Except Adolin is not such a angry man as the description implies. He got angry at Sadeas who threatens to destroy the family he loves. So is anger the motivator for Adolin or the side-product of something deeper, such as profound love for his closes-ones and a strong desire to care for them? Is Adolin the true embodiment of controlled anger or is he simply lashing all over the place because he cares too much?

 

The anger, the bravery, the obedience, I think these are not the drivers, but by-products. The true motivator is love.

 

 

 

If only 17th Shard had a chance for a questionare with Brandon, although I have a feeling most of our questions would be RAFO'd.

 

There are people asking questions to all signings. There are lists of potential questions, though they may not be the question you or I are interested in. Still, every once in a while, I catch a WoB within my areas of interest. You are right though he may RAFO too blunt questions about Adolin.

[dvoraen]

There is one other point about Adolin:

 

- We're assuming he isn't discovered, tried, and convicted for a highprince's murder.  I can't imagine that kind of incident carrying a small penalty.  He could very well be executed.

[natc]

There is one other point about Adolin:

- We're assuming he isn't discovered, tried, and convicted for a highprince's murder. I can't imagine that kind of incident carrying a small penalty. He could very well be executed.

As pointed out by Dalinar, the only two feasible sentences for a Shardbearer in the case of a great crime are execution and. . . nothing.

If he ever becomes a surgebinder Nale would love this dirt we have.

[hoser he/him]

As pointed out by Dalinar, the only two feasible sentences for a Shardbearer in the case of a great crime are execution and. . . nothing.

If he ever becomes a surgebinder Nale would love this dirt we have.

Could Dalinar have demanded that Amaram surrender his Shardblade and destroyed the gem on it?  Then he wouldn't have been a Shardbearer anymore and they could have imprisoned him.

[natc]

Could Dalinar have demanded that Amaram surrender his Shardblade and destroyed the gem on it? Then he wouldn't have been a Shardbearer anymore and they could have imprisoned him.

He could still say "storm it" and fight his way out and now we have bystanders dead as well as Amaram in the best case scenario. Worst case scenario we're down a few shardbearers and Amaram is free regardless.

You either murder him or you pretend nothing happened.

[Aleksiel]

If Dalinar commands Adolin to forfeit his Blade, he would do it. Also, Elhokar can pardon any crime, do you really think he'd want to see his cousin executed for killing Sadeas?

[hoser he/him]

He could still say "storm it" and fight his way out and now we have bystanders dead as well as Amaram in the best case scenario. Worst case scenario we're down a few shardbearers and Amaram is free regardless.

You either murder him or you pretend nothing happened.

Dalinar had a Shardblade to his neck.  He acted like he was done for.  If he doesn't surrender the blade, Dalinar could just end him, no dead bystanders and no dead shardbearers other than Amaram. 

[dvoraen]

If Dalinar commands Adolin to forfeit his Blade, he would do it. Also, Elhokar can pardon any crime, do you really think he'd want to see his cousin executed for killing Sadeas?

With Elhokar, I really think it's hard to say, particularly since a trial would implicitly suggest the other highprinces become involved, and some of them would undoubtedly want to undermine Dalinar by pressuring Elhokar into a conviction.  This also doesn't account for Team Diagram -- I keep wanting to call its members Architects -- getting involved in manipulating events too.

Edited March 23, 2015 by dvoraen

[Aleksiel]

With Elhokar, I really think it's hard to say, particularly since a trial would implicitly suggest the other highprinces become involved, and some of them would undoubtedly want to undermine Dalinar by pressuring Elhokar into a conviction.  This also doesn't account for Team Diagram -- I keep wanting to call its members Architects -- getting involved in manipulating events too.

 

Like which highprince? Aladar used to be Sadeas main supporter, the other is Ruthar. Everyone else (except Sebarial) was trying to play in the middle.

[natc]

Dalinar had a Shardblade to his neck. He acted like he was done for. If he doesn't surrender the blade, Dalinar could just end him, no dead bystanders and no dead shardbearers other than Amaram.

They weren't sentencing him right then or anything were they? They were going to sort it out after they return. He won't have a blade to his neck this time around.

[maxal she/her]

If Dalinar commands Adolin to forfeit his Blade, he would do it. Also, Elhokar can pardon any crime, do you really think he'd want to see his cousin executed for killing Sadeas?

 

One of the reasons I believe Dalinar will take away Adolin's shards.... In part for punishment, in other part for protection.

[wolveryne]

One of the reasons I believe Dalinar will take away Adolin's shards.... In part for punishment, in other part for protection.

I agree completely. And the reason I think this is an option with Adolin and not for Amaram is because Amaram is sure that he did the right thing and doesn't particularly care about Dalinar, or the King's authority. Adolin, on the other hand, will submit to that authority. We know from the way he tried to hid his involvement that he feels at least a little guilty for it.

[Emerald101 he/him]

random thought: has any other shardblade been exhibiting mist-shapes stuff like Adolin's? It seems like that might be an effect of him being attached to/respectful of it.

[dvoraen]

Like which highprince? Aladar used to be Sadeas main supporter, the other is Ruthar. Everyone else (except Sebarial) was trying to play in the middle.

I highly doubt Sadeas's wife will be passive, or pacifistic, on the matter.  She's hypothetically made a number of waves behind the scenes without it pointing to her (and was likely the one that guided the alterations to Dalinar's visions with her husband helping).  She's probably in a position where she has considerable clout with the ladies of the court.

Edited March 24, 2015 by dvoraen

[Dymphna]

So what about Lopen? He was breathing in stormlight at the end. (I don't have the spelling of the name as I do audible books.)

[natc]

So what about Lopen? He was breathing in stormlight at the end. (I don't have the spelling of the name as I do audible books.)

As has every other bridge 4 character. Squires, presumably.

[hoser he/him]

I highly doubt Sadeas's wife will be passive, or pacifistic, on the matter.  She's hypothetically made a number of waves behind the scenes without it pointing to her (and was likely the one that guided the alterations to Dalinar's visions with her husband helping).  She's probably in a position where she has considerable clout with the ladies of the court.

Whether Ialai's opinion matters remains to be seen.  Does Sadeas have a male heir? What are the rules of succession?  Remember, Aladar became a Highprince when Sadeas dueled a rival highprince.  It isn't clear to me that Ialai will be very influential going forward.  Apparently, ruling takes two hands, as it seems to be a masculine art. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by hoser