Ingesting metals

[Cones For Eyes]

I'm not really that familiar with the background theory behind Brandon's books but something struck me while rereading final empire and I was wondering if it can be explained in terms of realmantic theory.

It seems that when an allomancer swallows some metal, physically at least, it just sits in their stomach until they start burning it. Up until that point, it behaves just as you would expect metal to when it's passing through someones body. This is evidenced when Kelsier first trains vin in atium:

Anyway, any mistborn you face will probably have atium. However, they will be reluctant to use it. In addition, they won't have swallowed it yet - atium is fragile, and your digestive juices will ruin it in a matter of hours

However, there is a clearly another effect to swallowing the metal than just the "physical" reaction to it. Quite often when Vin swallows some metal, she describes being able to feel a well of power appearing. To me, allomancers don't just burn the metal for their powers - it seems like they are tapping into this new well of power and the metal in their body is just something that enables that process.

Does any of the theory confirm/refute this?

Like I said, not too familiar with the theory so sorry if this has been covered before! (Also not quite sure if this belonged here or in the mistborn forums :S)

Edited August 27, 2012 by Cones For Eyes

[Voidus]

From the man himself

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway

Nicely picked up!

Not sure if I've seen you around, if not welcome to the Forums!

EDIT: As long as there aren't too many spoilers the mistborn topic should be fine for posts like this, the Admins and Moderators will move it if it's in the wrong area

Edited August 27, 2012 by Voidus

[Cones For Eyes]

I'm a lil noobie so you won't have seen me around

I guess it's similar in the other shardworlds then? Colour (excuse my british spelling ) providing a gateway to access power in Warbreaker and the aons in the Elantris.

Havn't read WoK in a while but it seems like stormlight is the source of power rather than acting as the gateway.

[Voidus]

That same quote goes on to mention Aons, BioChroma may be a bit different and we don't have any quotes directly confirming it, seems to me to be a bit like a power source in itself since the color used are of differing power, and yeah Stormlight definitely seems like a power source in it's own right too.

EDIT: Ah you spelled colour correctly! (I'm from Australia so I keep trying to change mine to american spelling)

Edited August 27, 2012 by Voidus

[dj26792]

I'm from Australia and I don't bow to the whims of American English you too should spell things correctly. Sometimes when it isn't too much effort.

More on topic I like this line of thought as has already been commented the Aons are similar and are actually described in the novel explicitly as a sort of gateway to power and I'm pretty sure in BioChroma the power doesn't come from the breaths because they aren't consumed and Brandon normally stays somewhat close to the laws of physics

[Voidus]

With BioChroma it's the colour that is consumed (man using correct spelling feels good), either of you two had to say Aluminum yet? My Chemistry Lecturer would have murdered me if they ever saw me do that

[dj26792]

I refuse its aluminium and always will be.

True about the colour but I think its consumed the same way that metal is consumed by allomancy it doesn't make sense to me any other way I can think of.

[Voidus]

Well in terms of obeying the laws of Physics Colour is caused by pigments which is made of matter which has a certain amount of energy so on that front it still works, but since all of the Magic systems fit into one framework I do find it hard to believe that some of them get their power from a 'well' of power and others just from colour/Stormlight.

But Stormlight is the really troubling one since it definitely seems to be a power source in it's own right.

[Riddlesinthedark]

I refuse its aluminium and always will be.

True about the colour but I think its consumed the same way that metal is consumed by allomancy it doesn't make sense to me any other way I can think of.

Except that the Brit who discovered it named it "aluminum"...

Also, you spell it gaol. Your argument is invalid.

Thank You, Webster!

[dj26792]

Was actually unsure of how to spell and after initially favouring aluminum decided on aluminium before various american sources got it wrong

scienceblogs.com/worldsfair/2009/04/08/aluminum-versus-aluminium-wher/

[Riddlesinthedark]

Was actually unsure of how to spell and after initially favouring aluminum decided on aluminium before various american sources got it wrong

scienceblogs.com/worldsfair/2009/04/08/aluminum-versus-aluminium-wher/

I've seen it quoted that Davy never personally used "aluminium", I think that that blogger gets that wrong.

Also telling is that Webster was altering spelling based on actual phonemics, which implies to me that the pronunciation lagged behind the spelling, though that is conjecture.

[Cones For Eyes]

Haha, I didn't think such an off hand comment would draw such attention!

When I wrote my post, I had forgotten about breaths. It seems like either the breaths or colour could be considered as the consummable "thing".

You could also consider it as having to consume breath to be able to access colour just like you have to consume metal to access this mysterious well of power. The only problem I have with this is that the well of power that allomancers gain access to seems to come from a different rhealm that only allomancers can percieve where as colour can be perceived by all (even drabs).

With further thinking on the WoK front, do the books make reference to drawing power from the stormlight itself or merely using it up in the process of performing magic? If it's the latter, then it's not actually too out of line with the other magic systems.

[Voidus]

With further thinking on the WoK front, do the books make reference to drawing power from the stormlight itself or merely using it up in the process of performing magic? If it's the latter, then it's not actually too out of line with the other magic systems.

No I don't think it's been strictly stated but it seems much more like a power source by itself (Gives off light, slowly dissipates, can be used to make and power fabrials) but I'm of the opinion that a 'well' of power is what makes the Stormlight so it still fits in with the rest of the cosmere, just speculation of course but then we don't really have much else to go on

[Aminar]

Just because a breath isn't used doesn't mean it doesn't draw power from somewhere. It could draw caloric energy, energy from the cognitive realm or the spiritual. Likely the spiritual or all 3. I just see color as a more spiritual thing...

[Shrike]

I live in New Zealand where Aluminium is normal, but now I can't not say Aluminum after reading AoL twice (double negative, tricky)

[Vortaan]

Stormlight is likely the gateway to power, not the source. Let's look at Kaladin and Shallan, for example. Both have to consume Stormlight in some way to power their abilities, and both abilities are radically different in actual function. Sound familiar at all? I'd say spren might be the metals-equivalent on Roshar, but they aren't consumed (that we can see), except in fabrial construction.

[Windrunner]

I disagree. I feel very strongly that Stormlight is the fuel for Surgebinding. Compare two Allomantic powers, tin and bendalloy for instance. But the power comes from Preservation.(or through Preservation if you follow PoC) Shallan and Kaladin do two vastly different things, but their power source is the same as well, Stormlight.

[Straff Venture]

I disagree. I feel very strongly that Stormlight is the fuel for Surgebinding. Compare two Allomantic powers, tin and bendalloy for instance. But the power comes from Preservation.(or through Preservation if you follow PoC) Shallan and Kaladin do two vastly different things, but their power source is the same as well, Stormlight.

I'm inclined to agree with Kurkistan's realmatic theory, which states that the spiritual realm is the source of all motion (or some other word like that) in the cosmere. In layman's terms I would say the stormlight is the fuel, but in more complex terms it is actually used by surgebinders to give them a measure of control over energy in the spiritual realm.

EDIT: You know how enzymes work? They are made in a shape to fit around certain cells or substances in you body to perform a function. I'm guessing spren are sort of like the enzyme for spiritual energy, and stormlight is the physical manifestation of that energy.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Straff Venture

[Vortaan]

I disagree. I feel very strongly that Stormlight is the fuel for Surgebinding. Compare two Allomantic powers, tin and bendalloy for instance. But the power comes from Preservation.(or through Preservation if you follow PoC) Shallan and Kaladin do two vastly different things, but their power source is the same as well, Stormlight.

I think we're using the same instance to prove different theories. To me consuming Stormlight is a lot like burning metals, and the actual power behind it is likely Honor's. It seems you are saying that the Nahel bond is the gateway, and Stormlight is the power fueling the abilities. I can see your point, it'll be interesting to see if either/neither or possibly both of us are right!