Arwen Evenstar she/her Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 In The Hero of Ages, the phrase "shadow of self" was used in referencing the sliver of Preservation's consciousness. Could the next book be talking about the returning slivers of Ruin and Preservation? In that case could the "The Lost Metal" be atium? The schedule for the return of atium to the Pits of Hathsin would approximately line up. I know it's not very solid theory, but the stakes are going to have to be higher the in The Alloy of Law. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 In The Hero of Ages, the phrase "shadow of self" was used in referencing the sliver of Preservation's consciousness. Could the next book be talking about the returning slivers of Ruin and Preservation? In that case could the "The Lost Metal" be atium? The schedule for the return of atium to the Pits of Hathsin would approximately line up. I know it's not very solid theory, but the stakes are going to have to be higher the in The Alloy of Law. It has been suggested that the reason Hoid makes an appearance in Alloy of Law is because he is checking on the atium, which, as you mentioned, should be regrowing right about now. Atium being The Lost Metal is possible, but really just conjecture. There are at least 50 different metals, and ultimately, the title doesn't have to be literal. Interesting thoughts, though. Have an upvote and welcome to Seventeenth Shard! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 both possibilities have been speculated, but we have no solid facts either way for the moment. we'll have to wait the book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dants he/him Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oooh, interesting idea. We'll have to wait and see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I've actually brought up the whole "Lost Metal refers to Atium" thing in a few threads myself...so...upvote for thinking alike...also...welcome to the 17th shard! Along this line...I have a theory about the pits making atium in AoL. We know that Harmony is having a hard time acting in any meaningful way because of the opposing intents of the two shards that he holds. Can anyone think of any way that one of those two shards could be weakened in some way? Maybe a certain geographic area that tends to siphon off godlike power? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos he/him Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 the question is weather or not intent is actually tied to power. we have beings that exist purely as intent spren so in all likly hood the two aspects could be entirely unrelated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've actually brought up the whole "Lost Metal refers to Atium" thing in a few threads myself...so...upvote for thinking alike...also...welcome to the 17th shard! Along this line...I have a theory about the pits making atium in AoL. We know that Harmony is having a hard time acting in any meaningful way because of the opposing intents of the two shards that he holds. Can anyone think of any way that one of those two shards could be weakened in some way? Maybe a certain geographic area that tends to siphon off godlike power? I always thought that Harmony acted as he did because he believed in the notion of free will. Giving the people free will, letting them get on with their lives, and when someone upsets the balance too much, nudge Wax to go and sort it out. This could prove interesting, as would Sazed send Wax in on the 'evil' side of a conflict if the 'good' side became too powerful? How do we know it is because of the opposing Shards? As for his god powers, the Preservation side to Sazed is already weaker than the Ruin side, as Preservation gave up of himself to give Scadrial's humanity sentience. This means he is already siphoning off some of Ruin's power somewhere. Either regrowing the Atium at the Pits of Hathsin, wherever they happen to be these days, or investing it elsewhere. My current opinion is that he is investing the power into Marsh. Hemalurgy is of Ruin, and Inquisitors are primarily constructed of hemalurgic spikes, so it makes sense to have Marsh, already strongly connected to Ruin's power, yet uncorrupted by it, to be the vessel for the spare power Ruin is producing. It could even be used to power his allomancy and feruchemy, so there is no hope of it 'pooling up', as it were, in Marsh's system. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I always thought that Harmony acted as he did because he believed in the notion of free will. Giving the people free will, letting them get on with their lives, and when someone upsets the balance too much, nudge Wax to go and sort it out. This could prove interesting, as would Sazed send Wax in on the 'evil' side of a conflict if the 'good' side became too powerful? That depends on how you define balance. Remember, neither Ruin nor Preservation are inherently "good" or "evil", so a balance between the two doesn't necessarily mean a balance between moral points of view. Perhaps proper equlibrium between Preservation and Ruin is the natural decay of things, dying of old age, etc. By that definition, murdering someone in their prime, stealing food from growing children, etc. would be the sorts of acts that would defy the balance. While we would view those acts of evil, it's not their inherent evilness that creates the problem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I agree with you about Ruin and Preservation being neither good nor evil, but they are only two of the three positions that make up Harmony. Sazed is the guiding factor. Over time, he may become more like how you describe, but I think there are good indications in AoL that suggest Sazed's morality still considers good and evil. There is a conversation between Wax and Harmony towards the end of AoL. I think that's the one I'm thinking about. Unfortunately, I only have a paper copy, and it's at home, where I'm at work. I'm not 100% sure on this point, so if I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but didn't Wax become a lawman after leaving the city, and after meeting a certain Faceless Immortal who converted him and gave him his direct line to Harmony? It's possible that was Sazed's prompting in an almost non-interference way to address the concerns you bring up. I have no evidence to back this up, it is just opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynax he/him Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Either regrowing the Atium at the Pits of Hathsin, wherever they happen to be these days, or investing it elsewhere. Since Tyrian Sea in the Northern Roughs was located in the Final Empire (called Lake Tyrian then) just west of the Pits Of Hathsin I would imagine there's where they would be at the time of Alloy of Law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper he/him Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Just thought I'd plug this one in about Harmony in re to post #7: ERICTH Could Sazed take down Rayse since he has two shards? BRANDON SANDERSON Rayse is VERY scared of Sazed. However, given Sazed is a composite of two diametrically opposed shards, he finds it very difficult to act. (source)Emphasis added And this one about the possibility of atium returning. ZCHANCE (15 OCTOBER 2008) I'm surprised no one else has asked but does this new world have atium? If atium was the body of Ruin then it would seem when Sazed took up Ruin's power he would have reabsorbed all of the atium. New atium then would be bits of Sazed's new powers and weaken him with each newly formed bead. It would seem then that if atium exists it would be much rarer, and mean that Sazed would not be able to control this process. I guess I am trying to understand why he would want to allow any atium to make its way into the hands of people or rather out of his control? BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008) It's theoretically possible for atium to appear in the future, but right now Sazed has no plans to release any of it to the people. It is, effectively, now something of myth and legend. (source)Emphasis added It's interesting to note, though, that when asked if the Pits are producing atium now, Brandon has consistently distributed RAFO cards. Edited January 29, 2015 by inexorablePanda 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I agree with you about Ruin and Preservation being neither good nor evil, but they are only two of the three positions that make up Harmony. Sazed is the guiding factor. Over time, he may become more like how you describe, but I think there are good indications in AoL that suggest Sazed's morality still considers good and evil. There is a conversation between Wax and Harmony towards the end of AoL. I think that's the one I'm thinking about. Unfortunately, I only have a paper copy, and it's at home, where I'm at work. I'm not 100% sure on this point, so if I am wrong, feel free to correct me, but didn't Wax become a lawman after leaving the city, and after meeting a certain Faceless Immortal who converted him and gave him his direct line to Harmony? It's possible that was Sazed's prompting in an almost non-interference way to address the concerns you bring up. I have no evidence to back this up, it is just opinion. This actually feeds into my point - Sazed's morality is still a guiding factor. His preference for good over evil does not necessarily conflict with the balance between Preservation and Ruin. Thus, as yet I see no evidence that he would act with evil intent solely for the balance of Harmony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curiosity he/him Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Did no one think that the "Shadow of Self" that could appear might be Kelsier? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 We actually have WoB on what the significance of the title is: Q: My other question is about the phrase “Shadows of Self”. It’s mentioned in the last Mistborn book [...] so are we ever going to see the shadows in Shadows of Self? B: We are not going-- Well yes and no. What it is referencing in this book is the different roles that each person plays in their life. That is the core meaning of Shadows of Self. But there is also, there is a kandra involved, which they change shape and become different people, so “who are you?” and identity is a big thing. (source) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Did no one think that the "Shadow of Self" that could appear might be Kelsier? It's possible Curiosity is also right. The Kandra still have Kelsier's bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smye Posted April 10, 2015 Report Share Posted April 10, 2015 I'm thinking more along the lines of a connection between 'shadows of self' and the 'approximations of identity' that seem to be possible through aluminum feruchemy. After all, if aluminum can store identity, wouldn't that potentially leave one only a shadow of themselves or - perhaps more curiously - able to become a shadow of another (such as by storing all of their ID, 'downloading' the sDNA of another) and then use his/her metalminds? I'm surprised not to have heard more discussion of this connection on the boards - especially with what seems to be the reappearance of TLR's metalminds in Bands of Mourning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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