Who in the Cosmere so far is the Most Evil?

[Titan Arum]

While Straff is pretty much a bad dude, I voted other. I believe that Tonk Fah is pretty evil, only because he likes to kill all of his pets. For no good reason. To me this is just despicable because they didn't do anything to him. 

 

Yes, Balat liked to kill animals too, but his reason was to maintain his sanity in his horrible home environment (which isn't justifiable either, but at least he has a reason). 

[ChocolateRob he/him]

I'm going for Szeth because he knew exactly what a monster he was being but just carried on doing it for the weakest of reasons. I think this makes him worse than the man who was giving him the orders. T at least believes that he is going to save the world by his actions, he is delusional, its a negligible excuse but it is there.

Each step of the way Szeth was breaking himself just a little more, he lies to himself that it is not his choice to do what he does but the more he does it the less he can believe it until he's carrying on simply because he does not want to admit that he never had to start in the first place.

He was always on a slippery slope but most other villain's slippery slopes means someone does one small bad thing gradually increasing until they are a full monster, Szeth starts off as one kind of monster (I was just following orders) and evolves into another kind without ever changing what he does.

I'm looking forward to book 4 (Eshonai) a lot more than book 3 (Szeth).

[kaellok he/him]

In judging a person's character, motive is the most important. 

I disagree with this, actually (not saying you are wrong; just that I come by my answers rather differently).  I think that motivation/intent behind actions can act or serve as mitigation for doing bad/evil/terrible things, but only to a limit--and actually nothing at all to do with whether they are a good person.  (So I find it incredibly useful for a judgment metric of guilty/innocent, but not necessarily good/evil, if that makes sense.)  Of course, someone who intends evil with their actions will generally be more evil than someone who intends good, but--let's face it.  Slaughtering innocents is evil, whether done in the name of good or not (I'm looking at you, Mr T.)  

 

To be good requires action, after all.  (If someone next to you is choking to death, and you do nothing to help or hurt them, that's a little bit evil.  If you choke them yourselves, that's definitely evil.  And if you try to help them, even if you fail, that's definitely good.)

 

For me, Szeth and Mr T are up in the air as far as which is the most evil.  Mr T has good intentions, which helps, but he's perpetrating slaughter on a national scale (the hospitals, the civil war in Jah Keved, the plague in the Purelake, deliberately using Szeth to destabilize many of the rest of the nations--which likely increases the amount of violent crime if nothing else.)  If he were good and true to wanting to save humanity, then at the very least the ones he killed in the hospitals would be volunteers who knew what was asked of them and why; instead, I see him as evil and wanting to save humanity.  Very, very evil.

 

Szeth is special, because he knows what he is doing is wrong, destructive, and evil.  But he does it anyway.  And he tries to blame others for his own actions.  A man who is referred to as a Desolation, a mythic event that periodically occurred to destroy the world; that is how they see him.  And yet he cannot turn against one person, and say to him 'no'?  It's hard for me to differentiate between the massive, crippling weakness of self-respect that he must have to make this so, and the evil that he perpetrates.  

[Xaladin he/him]

@ all: that's really helpful, thanks. Upvote to the first one (the quote feature doesn't work on my computer, sorry) who mentioned Sadeas loves his wife, because I never thought of that, and yes, I agree that is important to consider when comparing to Straff.

 

I always thought Tonk Fah was a little messed up in the head, but maybe not enough to say he isn't evil?

 

Kaellok, if I am to understand you correctly, are you saying that an attempt at evil actions (which is like intent plus action), whether successful or not, is what makes a person evil?

What you say about Szeth reminds me a lot of a definition of second-degree murder. If you do something to somebody on purpose, knowing full well that it might kill them, and then it does kill them, you are guilty of second-degree murder. If there is also intent to kill, then it is first-degree. Either way it is at least second-degree. Szeth is a murderer in the first degree, but his attempted murder of Adolin "on his own time" should be placed in a more severe category than his other murders, (because he didn't even try to make an excuse there?). Perhaps if he hadn't tried to kill Adolin, Szeth wouldn't be as bad? I don't think Szeth would have murdered "on his own time" earlier in his killing career (though maybe when we find out why he became a Truthless we'll know more)

 

The debate on who of Szeth or Taravangian is more evil is interesting. I used to think Taravangian was worse, hands down, but now I am not so sure. After Szeth's book, perhaps all of us will be more sympathetic of Szeth.

[ccstat he/him]

This is actually a fairly straightforward question. We know that Nightblood "destroys evil" so we can just look for the person who has been most destroyed by Nightblood.

Shashara is a strong candidate, but then again so is Vasher, since so much of his life was ruined by that sword. There are probably a few others in the running, none of whom show up on that list. But you'd better vote fast because I have a feeling the stone shamans will qualify as "most destroyed" pretty soon.

[ArchonOfTheStorm]

It obviously Stick. Duh.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Its Straff. Amaram and Mr T aren’t evil. We know nothing of Wyrn. Dilaf was a fanatic, which is different from being evil. Sadeas at least tried to do good for some people, and TLR tried to save the world. Straff has never done crem for anyone, ever. He uses his own children as cannon fodder. 

[Pagliacci he/him]

To properly answer this question we must first answer the question what is evil?

What makes a person evil? Is it their actions, their intent or the consequences of their actions? A combination of all three?

So here's my ranking of the characters listed. From most evil to least evil. Apologies for any misinformation regarding characters.

•  
  Spoiler

   

  • Dilaf- The man plotted an entire genocide and led the slaughter of countless innocents. Worse, he enjoyed it (according to my memory).
  • The Lord Ruler- This man committed mass genocides, destroyed most of the world's knowledge, created Hemallurgical monstrosities, subjegated most of his population and Harmony knows what else. But ultimately his actions were driven by a belief that this was the only way and at times he seems to have deep remorse for his actions ("What will it take before you people stop questioning? How many centuries must I prove myself before you idiot skaa see the truth? How many of you must I kill!")
  • Wyrn (Wulfden)- We don't know much about this character, though we can assume he's pretty bad
  • Straff Venture- A petty man with ambitions don't extend beyond his own self interest. He was willing to lay siege to a city to become king. Was a pretty bad father.
  • Taravangian- Much like the Lord Ruler, King T is actions are guided by truly altruistic goals. Given more time King T probably would have been the hero of SA. Although when his intelligence is at its highest and he's at his most apathetic King T easily reaches the top 3 most evil characters.
  • Sadeas- was willing to let an entire army of men die just to kill Dalinar and send a message. Once again, his actions were mostly driven by a desire to help Alethkhar.
  • Denth- The man's done some pretty terrible things and Tonk Fah isn't exactly the kind of person decent people would be friends with.
  • Bluefingers- the man willing to do terrible things for his people
  • Suit- It can be inferred the man's done some shady things
  • Szeth- Though he's killed dozens if not hundreds of people Szeth takes no pleasure in his service and does it out of honor. Though, as we know, Honor is dead.
  • Amaram- Easily the most hateable character in SA. But really all Amaram did was kill a few soldiers for a Shardblade. Yes, I know the whole point of his character was to demonstrate that such actions are NEVER justifiable. But still, Amaram compared to some of the monsters on this list isn't all that bad. Still pretty bad though.

   

   

Note: None of these characters are really 'evil' as such, they just do some morally questionable things.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Pagliacci

[Straight_Outta_Arrakis]

On 1/19/2015 at 1:46 AM, Xaladin said:

Are there any major differences between Sadeas and Straff Venture?

At least Sadeas was nice to his wife and didn’t have children. I think Sadeas was every bit as bad as Straff in his larger interactions with people and the world, but every small and unseen interaction of Straff’s was cruel and sadistic. His treatment of women and children in particular make him inherently more evil in my opinion. 

[MasterGhandalf]

There are evil characters in the Cosmere who have greater raw malice (Dilaf), have bigger ambitions that have hurt/likely will hurt more people (pretty much any hostile Shard, Taravangian, probably the Ghostbloods) or have incurred more fandom wrath by personally wronging one of the heroes (Amaram, Sadeas, Moash), but in terms of just plain being a thoroughly repulsive human being - Straff. It's got to be Straff. If he'd been going off a checklist of "how can I be the most appalling person I can be in every aspect of my life?" I don't think he could have been much worse than he actually was. I mean, even Sadeas had (very few) redeeming qualities, like genuinely loving Ialai, and he understood higher ideals at least enough to pay lip service to them; Straff's got zilch.

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him]

I voted Rashek.

Not because i can't see that he was essential to Ruins defeat. But because i never really baught the low key redemption he was given in HoA.

Even his good deed (taking the well of ascension) was motivated mainly by racism. Not by Kwaans words.
The thing's that have been done to the skaa and terris for one thousand years are so horrible, that im not shure they were better of not just being killed by ruin.

Those countless generations of terris and skaa dont benefit in anyway from Harmony's ascension. They have long gone beyond.

I just feel he is way more terrible than other people that are commonly seen as unforgivable but is still treated pretty favourably because the vast amount of his victims don't habe viewpoints.

 

 

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

22 hours ago, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

I just feel he is way more terrible than other people that are commonly seen as unforgivable but is still treated pretty favourably because the vast amount of his victims don't habe viewpoints.

I defenitely see your point. However, I think that this is somewhat wrong. Vin, Sazed, Kelsier and Elend, the main viewpoints, are all his victims. 

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him]

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I defenitely see your point. However, I think that this is somewhat wrong. Vin, Sazed, Kelsier and Elend, the main viewpoints, are all his victims. 

Yes kind of. Im mean they definitely are. But all of them are at least able to see that everything paid off in the end and knew what their suffering was for. In the Annotations of HoA Sazed calls him  a good person deep down. And I don't agree.

From all the Characters that aren't shards i think he definitely caused the most suffering willingly. I mean if someone thinks taravangian is evil than TLR is at least 10times as bad.

But i see what Brandon did writing it this way. I really like that there was a twist to the dark evil emperor. And that the revolution didn't magically solve everything.

But whenever he ist talked about so nicely i just think "Won't anyone think of the Skaa." That's why i voted.

 

[Julio]

I voted Taravangian. That may make it seem that I dislike Taravangian... I don't. He's probably my favourite character on that list. I just happen to believe he's the most evil on that list. 

[whattheHoid she/her]

All these people are bad dudes, obvi. I would say either Rayse or Bavadin, however, I chose Taravangian because he would let everyone die no matter the cost. I don't like that rationale, it's creepy and scary and is never worth the cost.

[Ripheus23]

If the Unmade can count as characters, what about them?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

46 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

If the Unmade can count as characters, what about them?

Most of them are not sentient, and can’t really be evil. We haven’t really met the intelligent ones yet

[Xaladin he/him]

Wow. I think it’s hilarious that someone resurrected my old thread. I made it when I was a young wart hog.

My only comments now about it are: don’t forget I made the list before some books were published, and while Sadeas May have bee nice to his wife, don’t forget he goes to prostitutes (remember the in-sluts joke from Hoid?). Men don’t do that when they love their wives.

Actually, after reading Oathbringer I am tempted to say flashback Dalinar. I want to, if only as a lesson that even the worst of people can repent and be good.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Xaladin
Correcting a dumb autocorrect

[Ripheus23]

I've had an epiphany. The Evil is the most evil of all, it's in the name!