dvoraen Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I don't think it was Moelach heading to Stormseat, as Taravangian's interlude suggests Team Diagram is pretty certain Moelach is going westbound. (I'm wagering Tukar as the destination, by the way.)While we don't know much about what Dai-gonarthis can do, though the Death Rattle hints at it, I still claim at least Sja-anat was involved in the Listener stormspren acquisition. We know next to nothing over how Venli was able to acquire thousands of stormspren, suggesting she has a source of it. I don't see how she's attracting Voidspren short of getting help from an Unmade who's said to be able to 'change' spren. I'm likely wrong, simply due to lack of information on the subject, but I still contend Moelach wasn't in the storm.Unmade? Yes. Which? Who knows? EDIT: I should also add, that if Gavilar had found that sphere, and it does behave as a 'broadcaster' for the Unmade, it would also explain why suddenly Nergaoul and Moelach's powers manifested around that time. The more likely reason, though, is that the Unmade woke up then, on account of Gavilar's expedition (finding this sphere?). I'd really like to know if the other four Unmade were causing their own havoc in other parts of the world at the same time, too. You'd think that information would have propagated into the east if so. It makes me wonder if just Nergaoul and Moelach woke up and/or returned to Roshar; that it's a gradual process as the Heralds returning was implied to be. Edited January 18, 2015 by dvoraen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't think it was Moelach heading to Stormseat, as Taravangian's interlude suggests Team Diagram is pretty certain Moelach is going westbound. (I'm wagering Tukar as the destination, by the way.) While we don't know much about what Dai-gonarthis can do, though the Death Rattle hints at it, I still claim at least Sja-anat was involved in the Listener stormspren acquisition. We know next to nothing over how Venli was able to acquire thousands of stormspren, suggesting she has a source of it. I don't see how she's attracting Voidspren short of getting help from an Unmade who's said to be able to 'change' spren. I'm likely wrong, simply due to lack of information on the subject, but I still contend Moelach wasn't in the storm. Unmade? Yes. Which? Who knows? Dai-gonarthis is known as the Black Fisher, so there may be something to do with fish. It might be the causing the plague in the Purelake area, although the plague makes me suspect that it's Re-Shephir. I think that there's probably an Unmade associated with the Everstorm and possibly just storms in general, with a name based off of Baal. It would have been able to provide the stormspren. No, it couldn't have. Brandon said that the sphere hasn't gone dun, so that means that no investiture has escaped from it. WoB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 WoB? Yeah, it was quoted on page 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yeah, it was quoted on page 1. Ah, okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Dai-gonarthis is known as the Black Fisher, so there may be something to do with fish. It might be the causing the plague in the Purelake area, although the plague makes me suspect that it's Re-Shephir. I think that there's probably an Unmade associated with the Everstorm and possibly just storms in general, with a name based off of Baal. It would have been able to provide the stormspren. WoB? Given the Death Rattle that introduces Dai-gonarthis, I take the term 'Fisher' to be quite metaphorical, with respect to the "fish". I'm thinking that, like Yelig-nar, Dai-gonarthis also feeds on human kind, but in a different manner. "He holds my sorrow and consumes it!" The best analogy I can think of is that Dai-gonarthis has powers like unto dementors from the Harry Potter universe, in terms of effects on people. Emotional destruction, in other words; draining away hope, valor, bravery, the will to live, and so forth. Edited January 18, 2015 by dvoraen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Given the Death Rattle that introduces Dai-gonarthis, I take the term 'Fisher' to be quite metaphorical, with respect to the "fish". I'm thinking that, like Yelig-nar, Dai-gonarthis also feeds on human kind, but in a different manner. "He holds my sorrow and consumes it!" The best analogy I can think of is that Dai-gonarthis has powers like unto dementors from the Harry Potter universe, in terms of effects on people. Emotional destruction, in other words; draining away hope, valor, bravery, the will to live, and so forth. Perhaps the metaphor with fishing involves luring people to their doom, or something along those lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I always thought the beings Kaladin saw were chasmfiends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 I always thought the beings Kaladin saw were chasmfiends. It's possible, but I doubt it. They just killed a chasmfiend, I think that Kal would have recognized if there were two more. Also, the figures were completely different in appearance. Unless chasmfiends have significant male/female differences, these two figures wouldn't have qualified. Besides, from a foreshadowing standpoint, giving a glimpse of the unmade would make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I thought the being were Moelach and Nergaoul being drawn to the conflict at the Shattered Plains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Regarding chasmfiends, there's this bit from WoR:"... Have you ever seen a juvenile? Before they form the crysalis?""No," Adolin said, scooting his chair around the table. "It often happens at night, and we don't spot them until morning. They are hard to see out there, colored like rock." I like the theory of them being pupating chasmfiends. If they were Unmade, I feel like it might have been more... well, significant. Like, Kaladin should have felt something super wrong about them or something. Edited January 19, 2015 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Regarding chasmfiends, there's this bit from WoR: "... Have you ever seen a juvenile? Before they form the crysalis?" "No," Adolin said, scooting his chair around the table. "It often happens at night, and we don't spot them until morning. They are hard to see out there, colored like rock." I like the theory of them being pupating chasmfiends. If they were Unmade, I feel like it might have been more... well, significant. Like, Kaladin should have felt something super wrong about them or something. The description made them seem way too big. Besides, I think something as non-humanoid as a chasmfiend wouldn't be described as a "figure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Regarding chasmfiends, there's this bit from WoR: "... Have you ever seen a juvenile? Before they form the crysalis?" "No," Adolin said, scooting his chair around the table. "It often happens at night, and we don't spot them until morning. They are hard to see out there, colored like rock." I like the theory of them being pupating chasmfiends. If they were Unmade, I feel like it might have been more... well, significant. Like, Kaladin should have felt something super wrong about them or something. Possible, but at the time Kaladin was also in a state where he couldn't even feel the Stormlight inside a sphere, during one of his failed attempts to suck it in after the bond frazzled. (p848 hardback) I'd rather question his ability to sense anything off from the perspective of supernatural, at that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's interesting to me that the name of that chapter is "Striding the Storm" That in and of itself seems to indicate that they are significant. "Light came from above, too steady to be lightning. Something was glowing on the plateau. Something that moved. It was hard to see, since water streamed off the side of the plateau above, falling in a sheet before their refuge. He swore he saw an enormous figure walking up there, a glowing inhuman form, followed by another, alien and sleek. Striding the storm. Leg after leg, until the glow passed." That doesn't sound like any description of any life-stage of a chasmfiend to me, but I've certainly been wrong before. Plus, rock-colored chasmfiends glowing would be a bit weird. And there's also this, a few paragraphs later: "Rain washed over them, blown in swirls, and he swore he could hear chanting out there somewhere. Some kind of strange spren zipped past their enclosure, red and violet and reminiscent of lightning. Was that what Syl had seen?" I'd assumed this was in reference to the Parshendi taking stormform during this highstorm, but they should have already had their spren with them when they did that, so now I wonder if those spren are drawn to or following those "inhuman forms" (or both) To drag us back on topic, all in all, after rereading WoR tonight, I'm less sure than I was before what to think of that sphere. Most things to do with Odium appear to be red, rather than black.We have no earthly rosharly idea exactly whose hands Gavilar was worried about it falling into or for what reason. I would tend to disagree with the unmade-in-a-box theory, for several reasons people have already brought up. Captive spren of some other sort, perhaps, but all the "evil" spren we've seen have had some kind of red, which I'd think you could see in a black sphere. I don't think we can rule out the possibility of it being from Cultivation at this point. That might be a good question for someone to ask. It's also interesting that Brandon didn't refute that it was a different "kind of light" in the WoB like he did about the amber one. So I'm not ready to rule out a separate form of investiture just yet either. I can't see Odium's minions wanting to rely on highstorms to recharge their powers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Clearly, it's (mistborn spoilers) The extra bit of ruin so harmony is balanced 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I can't see Odium's minions wanting to rely on highstorms to recharge their powers.... It could be part of the oathpact. Both sides receive fuel for their magic at the same time. Just a thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It could be part of the oathpact. Both sides receive fuel for their magic at the same time. Just a thought. I don't think so. Odium's minions should need to wait for the Everstorm to recharge, like Kaladin has to wait for a Highstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't think so. Odium's minions should need to wait for the Everstorm to recharge, like Kaladin has to wait for a Highstorm. Then why did the Parshendi need a highstorm to change into stormform? And they were shooting lightning way before the everstorm arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 They used to be connected to the Spren. Using the Stormfather to change is possibly a legacy of that. The spren themselves determine what form the Listeners are changed into, in this case, they had Odium's stormspren, so they got Stormform. The lightning is something akin to surgebinding, only from voidspren instead of honourspren or cryptic (or any of the others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It seems implied that even Returned can run on stormlight, so really just how interchangeable is this stuff? Allomancers can burn Atium too, which is also the incorrect power source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) There's this WoB: QUESTION Are the Parshendi of Odium? BRANDON SANDERSON Not originally. Eshonai also says that the Listeners were "of the storms" so perhaps changing during the storms is written into their DNA. And the Listeners say that their minds are closer to the realms of the spren than that of humans. Also, as far as we know, the Nahel bond doesn't require stormlight to create, it requires stormlight for its powers. Perhaps going out into the storm is a way to "break" themselves enough for the spren to enter somehow - they talk about having to have the exact right mindset before they learned how to capture spren. I find it interesting that when Eshonai takes on the form, there is no mention of her glowing, no mention of her using the "power" in the form. It is only later, after Venli and several others have taken the form as well, that Venli is mentioned snapping her fingers and playing with the power (which I read as lightning). I don't see any reason why after bonding with their spren in the highstorm and drawing the attention of their "gods" they couldn't have gained access to some other form of Investiture that we don't know about yet. I get the impression that Odium's spren work rather similarly to somethings we saw in Mistborn. Such as Ruin being able to control inquisitors through spikes or "a hole" in people created by hemalurgy Odium seems to do it through his red spren once they bond with people (and things, looking at koloss, thunderclasts). Also, if the Parshendi Voidbringers are using stormlight as power, how on earth did they have enough gemstones for that battle? It took place after weeks of Weeping, stormlight reserves in spheres and gemstones would naturally be running low. That's an awful lot of people voidbinding at once. I have a pet theory that the Everstorm was summoned by them in a similar way that Pattern was drawn by Shallan, and it now contains Blightwind, one of the unmade, a counterpart to the Stormfather and a bunch of evil spren and black Investiture. But it's not a well-researched theory yet..... Edited January 19, 2015 by Shlee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Clearly, it's (mistborn spoilers) The extra bit of ruin so harmony is balanced I had the same idea. Good thinking, Oudeis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Also, if the Parshendi Voidbringers are using stormlight as power, how on earth did they have enough gemstones for that battle? It took place after weeks of Weeping, stormlight reserves in spheres and gemstones would naturally be running low. That's an awful lot of people voidbinding at once. Well, Szeth said that voidbringers could hold stormlight perfectly, so I'm not sure that the time period would have been an issue for them. It could have something to do with their physiology. Stormlight goes right through human bodies. Voidbringer bodies might be able to contain it (and not glow), similar to chasmfiends (which have large stormlight stores, but don't glow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlee Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Chasmfiends have large gemhearts. I don't necessarily know that that means they have large stormlight stores instantaneously. I for one, don't think so. Unless I missed an invested chasmfiend scene somewhere. Szeth has been wrong about an awful lot of things, and right about very few, but I will concede that at this point, we simply just don't know either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't think so. Odium's minions should need to wait for the Everstorm to recharge, like Kaladin has to wait for a Highstorm. Keep in mind that it's implied that in the previous Desolations, the Everstorm didn't exist at all. It's also not inconceivable that the Unmade, at least, can use a highstorm's Investment for replenishing their powers, in addition to the fact that the Voidbringers in general were said to have complete Stormlight retention, whereas humans and spheres have it gradually leak. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Chasmfiends have large gemhearts. I don't necessarily know that that means they have large stormlight stores instantaneously. I for one, don't think so. Unless I missed an invested chasmfiend scene somewhere. The gemheart was glowing with stormlight when Kal and Shallan came out of the chasms. Seems invested to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.d41b1ca865930ccf5f63b08a839f908e.png){kind=logo}
Recommended Posts