The Alethi is America

[High prince of geeks]

okay stay with me here. Both move into large wild lands finding creatures of huge wealth. The land is taken advantage of immediately while a war is started with the natives. The creatures of wealth population is hunted so much that their number decrease to almost dangerous levels. A that point the occupation of the new lands becomes more about destroying the natives

[Redbird]

Except for all the important stuff, exactly. Also weren't the Alethi based on Korea?

[RawToast225]

Except for all the important stuff, exactly.

Lol, that sarcasm was amazing.

I see the similarities, but it was based on Korea.

[natc]

It's called human history.

You stumble upon this place with stuff you want, but people own it. Take out the people and grab the stuff. That sounds like everybody really.

[Patrick Star]

This is what every country in the history of ever has done. Not unique to America in any way.

[CHOUTAGOD]

I thought the Alethi were a blend of several cultures? I know there was definitely Korean but wasn't there Jewish and others too.

[Argent]

Yeah, because we definitely treat all scholarly and artistic activities as feminine...

[Mckeedee123]

I don't think you can really draw a bead on any particular culture here. The clothes, for certain, are pretty unique, and I'm not sure that gender roles are so sharply defined in any earth culture. It's actually really special, culturally

Edited January 16, 2015 by mckeedee123

[AerionBFII]

I think it bears similarities, if you want to see a true rip off check out Game of thrones, basically every event is from British history.
Not that I'm complaining it's just inspiration, yeah Mistborn seemed very medical European, AOL seemed early New York to me SA was based off Korea with Prussian style uniforms but is so incredibly unique story and worldbuilding.

I think if you try hard enough you can spot similarities between any culture and a fantasy Series.

Edited January 16, 2015 by WEZ313

[Arondell]

Meh...Personally I can see the resemblance if I squint a bit and stand on my head.  Are there points of comparison? Yes.  Is it a deliberate effort on the part of Mr. Sanderson?  I doubt it.   

[Mimiddle04]

The Parshendi aren't exactly native to the shattered plains.  They were more a nomadic people before the war, but moved to the shattered plains because of their ability to defend them.

 

When you say beasts of great value that were hunted to near extinction, I am guessing buffalo?  Their skins were of value, but their near extinction was contributed to by a number of factors that had nothing to do with their value.  For example the railroad companies paid people to clear herds and the government paid people to clear herds so cattle would have more grazing room.

 

Maybe whales?  They were highly valued for a number of reasons, but you'd hardly have to of taken over the American Continent to hunt whales to near extinction.  A lot of other countries contributed to that and the oceans aren't very comparable to the Shattered Plains.

 

A more apt comparison between the two, in my mind, would be their general attitude of being the center of the world and how they control the majority of the world's super weapons.

 

EDIT: But my comparison is hardly specific to America.  America is the most recent country to be that way, but China, Rome, Greece, Egypt, and Mongolia have all had their turns at that position in the past.  So as others have pointed out Alethi are really just whatever current super power you want to point to.

 

If I misunderstood your analogy I am sorry and welcome the opportunity to understand it better.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Mimiddle04

[hoser]

I fear the infusion of politics and interpretation into these boards.  Although I indulge, if I offend anyone, please accept my apologies, as I don't want to offend. 

 

I wish the history of my native country were as good as that of the Alethi moving to the Shattered Plains. 

 

Make a peace treaty that you intend to honor w/the current residents?  Not so much. 

 

The current residents initiated the war?  Not so much. 

 

As far as I can tell, the reduction (if any) in Chasmfiends doesn't seem to have been a factor in changing the tactics of the war.  

[Moogle]

I'm not so sure I'd blame the Parshendi for the war. Gavilar was threatening to bring back their gods, which would presumably cause the Parshendi to be enslaved by Odium. (And, well, as he told Szeth, it was already too late at that point, so presumably he succeeded.) That's a declaration of war if I've ever heard one.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Moogle

[hoser]

Whew!  Safely back in fantasy. 

I'm not so sure I'd blame the Parshendi for the war. Gavilar was threatening to bring back their gods, which would presumably cause the Parshendi to be enslaved by Odium. (And, well, as he told Szeth, it was already too late at that point, so presumably he succeeded.) That's a declaration of war if I've ever heard one.

Not wanting to rehash too much ...

• Moelach (not sure about spelling) had already been around for a year or so, IIRC.
• If Gavilar knew that he was threatening the Parshendi w/enslavement and they objected strongly, refusing to sign the treaty if he went forward w/his plan, I can imagine it as a hostile action.  But if Gavilar doesn't understand the implications and the Parshendi don't enlighten him and object, then I can't see it as a declaration of war. 
• Gavilar seemed to be negotiating a peace treaty that he intended to honor.  And he was doing something else that he didn't see as hostile to the listeners.  As different from declaring war as a faint breeze is from a highstorm, IMO. 

[Moogle]

Your points are pretty well-made. I'm not entirely convinced though - I'd kill for a PoV from Gavilar and what exactly his intentions were and what he told the Parshendi.

 

And as far as his intentions go... I don't know, I can still entirely see why the listeners feel threatened. They certainly acted weirdly, though. They came across as honorable... why not object to Gavilar about his actions? (Or did they?)

Edited January 16, 2015 by Moogle

[hoser]

To say that the listeners didn't object is an inference. I base it on the following:

• They still signed the treaty.
• Gavilar was surprised that they were behind the assassination.
• They didn't explain afterwards. If they had objected beforehand and Gavilar had told someone, then there would have been no reason for reticence later.
• Szeth expected to surprise the Alethi.

My only guess that they didn't want people to know they were potential voidbringers, so they didn't want to explain themselves and open that can of worms.  Even though understandable, if this were true, it would put the onus more on the listeners than Gavilar. 
For me, this is a well-supported inference. Not proven!

The only certainty is my ignorance.

 

Edit: added guess, paragraph, formatting

Edited January 17, 2015 by hoser

[Natans]

Well, nothing against you guys but indeed I agree that Alenthekar looks a bit it USA, they even have some minor Mexico issue going on with Herdaz (don't tell me you didn't notice that Lopen are latino =P) LOL

In true, I see here Brandon's small critic of consumerism and capitalism. Alenthekar the greatest country of Roshar have a a Elite class that enjoy a very opulent life style (that many times are put in very bad lights to the reader), where people are grinded to create profit that are used to the said elites pay for they pleasures.

Also them have a militarist way of solve problems. Are formed by smaller states that have a common origin but are relatively independent of which other, etc   

Said this, plenty of things that a non-american person associates with USA you find in all Empires of history so no big deal here, and i'm not in the least trying do bash any country, but i really can see what the High  prince of geeks wanted to say, and agree with him. =0

Peace  =) 

[Savanorn]

Well, nothing against you guys but indeed I agree that Alenthekar looks a bit it USA, they even have some minor Mexico issue going on with Herdaz (don't tell me you didn't notice that Lopen are latino =P) LOL

In true, I see here Brandon's small critic of consumerism and capitalism. Alenthekar the greatest country of Roshar have a a Elite class that enjoy a very opulent life style (that many times are put in very bad lights to the reader), where people are grinded to create profit that are used to the said elites pay for they pleasures.

Also them have a militarist way of solve problems. Are formed by smaller states that have a common origin but are relatively independent of which other, etc   

Said this, plenty of things that a non-american person associates with USA you find in all Empires of history so no big deal here, and i'm not in the least trying do bash any country, but i really can see what the High  prince of geeks wanted to say, and agree with him. =0

Peace  =) 

 

Allow me to disagree.

 

This is really more of a comment on the militaristic elite of any people in history. I, for one, never really got an American vibe at all from the Alethi.  Maybe the French, but that's really just because of the uniforms and I think BS actually mentioned this at one point.  The language puts me more in mind of like...Arabs or Indians, plus the curry.  

 

I don't see any commentary on either capitalism or consumerism either. 

[Natans]

Allow me to disagree.

 

This is really more of a comment on the militaristic elite of any people in history. I, for one, never really got an American vibe at all from the Alethi.  Maybe the French, but that's really just because of the uniforms and I think BS actually mentioned this at one point.  The language puts me more in mind of like...Arabs or Indians, plus the curry.  

 

I don't see any commentary on either capitalism or consumerism either. 

 

First my sentiments from everything that happened those days.

Second i stand my point, but this is just me, saying "Hey, I got this felling too".

It's kind cultural thing really. Most likely this is the reflection of the image that USA got here in my subconscious. I live in a very non-militarist country, so to me Usa foreign internationalist policies looks  a bit  aggressive and mostly like i associated with the Alenthi culture, after all interpretation are bound by the context and experiences that oneself have, to me something  mean a very different thing that to other people with different context.

Same thing with consumerism, i deeply aggravated by the issue of wealth distribution in society so i associated the Alenthi social paradigm of wealth distribution with the problem of consumerism, but this is me again going bananas =)

Don't read to deep in this ok =) All in all let agree in disagree, shall we ? =)

And take this upvote as a token of good fatih =)

 

[Savanorn]

 

First my sentiments from everything that happened those days.

Second i stand my point, but this is just me, saying "Hey, I got this felling too".

It's kind cultural thing really. Most likely this is the reflection of the image that USA got here in my subconscious. I live in a very non-militarist country, so to me Usa foreign internationalist policies looks  a bit  aggressive and mostly like i associated with the Alenthi culture, after all interpretation are bound by the context and experiences that oneself have, to me something  mean a very different thing that to other people with different context.

Same thing with consumerism, i deeply aggravated by the issue of wealth distribution in society so i associated the Alenthi social paradigm of wealth distribution with the problem of consumerism, but this is me again going bananas =)

Don't read to deep in this ok =) All in all let agree in disagree, shall we ? =)

And take this upvote as a token of good fatih =)

 

 

Returned in kind, I accept your disagreement, or expression of feeling, in the spirit of polite discourse it was meant and stand by my own disagreement in a similar fashion.