maetel39 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 The Kaladin homecoming thread has made me wonder about what will happen if Shallan and her brothers manage to meet in the next book. For Shallan, I think she will be extremely happy in the beginning but will have end up having troubles with their individual issues like Jushu's gambling. And for her brothers I think they will be very confused that not only is shy, timid Shallan more outgoing but that she is a radiant with a shard. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I'll be honest im not nearly as worried, Shallan has grown on me after WOR after learning her past has made me a lot less critical of her but i am still far from fond of her. I have even less love of her brothers. She seems incredibly blind to them. One is a border line serial killer and a coward, the other is a gambler and a thief the third well he battles with depression and was the target of their fathers rage mostly so ill leave him out. I believe they will still believe her to be 'fragile' which judging by her reaction to Adolin she does not like.(LOL) I also think she will have her hands full juggling the coming war, Adolin, her research and dealing with the Ghostbloods. I have a theory that they maybe a little insecure around her by witnessing how much she has grown. I think initially it will be all flowers and roses but will sour eventually, caused by them basically being hostages and i think they will get into trouble on their own..I just can't trust them. (EDIT) Have an upvote! I was desperate crazy to get them when i first signed up Edited January 5, 2015 by WEZ313 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bort he/him Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think they are going to be baffled by her. At least, after she puts them in their place when they all try to lord it over her. This sounds harsher than I mean it to, but when Shallan left, she was a timid, meek girl, and now she is a Lightweaver, Radiant, and Ghostblood. That is going to cause some confusion, and probably a bit of resentment. At first at least, Shallan is a decent person though, so it will all be sorted in the end. Once Jushu has gotten her into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Just so you know where I'm coming from with this post: I don't like Shallan. She is a brat that was given power to manipulate people. I hate what she did to her father father and I hate her rashness in going to steel from Jasnah. That being said, I think she will end up killing Adolin and at least one of her brothers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degamound Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Shallan has been one of my favorite characters and her past endeared her character more, but i think she will try to use her light-weaving on her brother, and it will cause problems with her family. Possibly give her another truth a more basic truth about people and her power like maybe you cant force change on people or something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I have such complex feelings regarding Shallan, when she's doing the whole Ghostblood thing I tend to quite like her but i often find her to annoying when she's not actively doing something or having a breakthrough with her reasearch. She might be in my top 5 characters in SA on a good day. Like I said I have no tolerance for her brothers I see them as baggage or more trouble than they are worth in the future for her but unfortunately I can't see her abandoning them anytime soon. I wonder what their reactions will be when they find out who killed Helaran.... Probably send little sister to deal with him. I honestly believe they will mostly be used unbeknownst to them by Mraize to get Shallan to cooperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maetel39 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 There is also the possibility that new information could come out about Shallan's childhood from their interactions. Information about what led to her speaking the oath so young and maybe different perspectives of their parents prior to their mother's death. Also, I can't believe that Shallan was surgebinding way back then and her mother noticed but her brothers were completly oblivious. But yeah, I agree her brothers are going to be a big complication for her especially Balat and Jushu. I'll be honest im not nearly as worried, Shallan has grown on me after WOR after learning her past has made me a lot less critical of her but i am still far from fond of her. I have even less love of her brothers. She seems incredibly blind to them. One is a border line serial killer and a coward, the other is a gambler and a thief the third well he battles with depression and was the target of their fathers rage mostly so ill leave him out.I believe they will still believe her to be 'fragile' which judging by her reaction to Adolin she does not like.(LOL)I also think she will have her hands full juggling the coming war, Adolin, her research and dealing with the Ghostbloods. I have a theory that they maybe a little insecure around her by witnessing how much she has grown.I think initially it will be all flowers and roses but will sour eventually, caused by them basically being hostages and i think they will get into trouble on their own..I just can't trust them.(EDIT) Have an upvote! I was desperate crazy to get them when i first signed up thanks for the upvote : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Fusion he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Just so you know where I'm coming from with this post: I don't like Shallan. She is a brat that was given power to manipulate people. I hate what she did to her father father and I hate her rashness in going to steel from Jasnah. That being said, I think she will end up killing Adolin and at least one of her brothers. I definitely see where you are coming from, mostly with her manipulation, attempt to steal from Jasnah, and especially the way she treats those around her. Honestly, I think her brothers will be in awe at first, but are going to end up strongly disliking her. They're accustomed to her being a timid, shy girl, definitely not a radiant bossing those around her and manipulating lords. It simply won't end well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkum he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 They're used to her being timid and shy, but do recall that she came up with the soucaster theft plan on her own, and killed their father in front of them. They've had months to reconcile those acts with the timid and shy girl she was, so I think they may not be as surprised by her changes as you would expect. that said, I agree that this seems like something that will start happy and sour over time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The real question is if and/or how her brothers will find out Shallan killed their mother in self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I really don't get it. No offense intended, and no, I didn't downvote the post. Just so you know where I'm coming from with this post:I don't like Shallan. She is a brat that was given power to manipulate people. I hate what she did to her father father and I hate her rashness in going to steel from Jasnah.That being said, I think she will end up killing Adolin and at least one of her brothers. What was wrong with what she did to her father? I see him as a rabid dog (apologies to rabid dogs everywhere) often in thrall to Odium that needed to be put down. As soon as he committed premeditated murder, she dealt w/him as needed to be done. While it would have been better if she had just sliced him up w/Pattern before he crippled Balat, she does have her own issues. She saved all her brothers but Heleran at various times, and was pretty straight w/them about it. Her work w/the deserters and slaves seems brilliant, heroic, transformative and straightforward. She is courting Adolin, but she seems genuinely attracted and has been honest about her ulterior motives. The repeated wisecracks about people's odor are somewhat tiresome, but I consider that a minor issue. I definitely see where you are coming from, mostly with her manipulation, attempt to steal from Jasnah, and especially the way she treats those around her. Honestly, I think her brothers will be in awe at first, but are going to end up strongly disliking her. They're accustomed to her being a timid, shy girl, definitely not a radiant bossing those around her and manipulating lords. It simply won't end well. She has been leading the family for years. I would be awed by my sister as a Radiant, too. People seem to be attracted to her, as we see w/the deserters, Adolin, Kaladin, the slaves, Sebarial, Jasnah, the Ghostbloods, Dalinar, Navani the sailors and even Tyn. While she has gained an assertiveness greater than she had before, I don't understand why her brothers would strongly dislike her, other than the residual effects of Odium-contamination. Yes, there will certainly be drama and many characters will die. Those deaths will be related to the decisions that important people, including Shallan, make. I think these problems will be the result of the horrible situation Roshar and her family finds itself in, rather than Shallan being an arrogant despicable person. Shallan did alienate Tvlakv and the trade caravan guy, but they both benefited greatly from her actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Just so you know where I'm coming from with this post: I don't like Shallan. She is a brat that was given power to manipulate people. I hate what she did to her father father and I hate her rashness in going to steel from Jasnah. That being said, I think she will end up killing Adolin and at least one of her brothers. Why do you think she will kill Adolin and one of her brothers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Before WoR came out I was thinking there was a good chance that at some point Shallan would hear that her remaining family had been killed or similar. My expectations for book 3 are fairly similar. I have no problem with having my expectations confounded but certainly there's a lot that could go wrong: with the Everstorm everything has gotten a lot more dangerous and they have quite a bit of travelling to do (maybe a month or so in "normal" times) We don't even know if Mraize is telling the truth. Either way, the Ghostbloods are an additional problem - Shallan does not like them or their philosophy and I'd be very surprised if that changes any time soon, particularly since they can be quite casual about killing others. Even if the brothers do make it safely to Urithiru they won't be out of danger - far from it. I suspect there will be a lot of tension even if there's been no overt threats. Ignoring the Ghostbloods etc and assuming they do in fact meet up, what would my expectations be? Certainly, Shallan has changed a lot. Have her brothers changed at all? I'd expect there to be some changes though nothing like how much Shallan has changed.... though in a way, I don't think Shallan has fundamentally changed much yet, more that she has reverted to what she would have been like. Her brothers see her as "timid" but she's not naturally timid - she learned to be that way to deal with her situation. Putting it more generally, she adapted to her situation (her abusive father, her terrible memories, her broken family) and now that she has been released from that (mostly) she's been free to revert. One area where she has probably changed fundamentally is self-confidence - when we first meet her she's often downplaying herself and is still doing that a lot early in WoR (though I note that she's still using a lot of self-deprecating humour towards the end). Ignoring the Ghostbloods still, what would be sources of tension? For Shallan, the big one I see would be telling her brothers the truth about mother's death - this would be a very hard thing to do but her brothers do deserve the truth. I would not be at all surprised to see Shallan getting quite stressed out over this, similarly to how she was getting quite stressed during the last part of WoR. For the brothers, the main source of tension would be the "gap" that has developed between them - Shallan is now effectively an international superstar and they're a broken bunch from a minor noble house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I see several points of tension, her brothers growing insecurity maybe they feel unmanned by seeing how much she has grown. Irrational i know but nobody loves or hates each other more than siblings. When they find out who killed mother i definitely see this as a friction point between them as all of them remember their mother fondly and might not believe Shallan. I believe when her brothers and Shallan also find out the truth as to who killed Helaran. I can imagine her brothers hating Kal for this, as in their childhood they remember him fondly as the big brother who stood up to their father and protected them. I think this will also hurt Shallan a great deal, when they were tapped in the Highstorm they bonded and shared all their gory pasts. Except Kaladin who held that back about her brother. She might see this as a betrayal but i don't think she would act on it not now and maybe even defend him to her brothers i can definitely see this causing problems. Not to mention her brother stealing what ever inst nailed down to sell or the other brother trying to murder pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why do you think she will kill Adolin and one of her brothers? Because that's what she does. She is a killer. I just really don't like her character, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Hahaha i do see a reoccurring pattern with her getting away with killing her own family members (fingers crossed for balat) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Because that's what she does. She is a killer. I just really don't like her character, man. Fair enough. I probably feel the same way about Kaladin as you do about Shallan. Except for different reasons. Hahaha i do see a reoccurring pattern with her getting away with killing her own family members (fingers crossed for balat) To be fair, her mother tried to kill her and her Dad was about to kill her brother. IIRC. Balat is the one that kills animals yes? If so he should definitely be killed but not by her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Yeah she's not so bad i dont hate her but i don't particularly like her either. where does she rank on you SA characters? 1.Kal/Wit 2.Dalinar 3.Szeth 4.Mraize 5.Jasnah 6.Nale 7.Shallan 8.Axies 9.Iyatil 10.Taravangian Edited January 7, 2015 by WEZ313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 In the negatives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 In the negatives. But if you put them in order with respect to that 1-10 list then the negatives would actually be HIGHER than Kaladin and Wit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawToast225 he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 But if you put them in order with respect to that 1-10 list then the negatives would actually be HIGHER than Kaladin and Wit! In that case, I will put her in the billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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