The Weeper since reading Wind and Truth

[GeoMantrix]

Search seems to show all discussion on the Weeper are closed, apparently due to age.  The copper mind article doesn't indicate a Herald identity (my first thought, since heralds being at the party was a pretty strong theme.). Heralds tended not to have their own honor blades, which Wind and Truth clarifies.  

Besides having a blade, her ability to blend in is notable.  This brought to mind certain someones from other planets potentially a Kandra, Nalthian Royalty, or someone from Sel with Ghostblood ties.

The timing for it to be Azure conflicts with the history she gives in Oathbringer.  

I think the timing for her to be the Selish person is pretty good.  (Vagueness intentional due to scope of this folder)

I don't like the Vedel theory because assassination is so counter to healing.  I know, "but they're crazy!". I think if it is a herald, one with illumination makes more sense.  

 

Edited June 27 by GeoMantrix
Add intentional vagueness

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

2 hours ago, GeoMantrix said:

Search seems to show all discussion on the Weeper are closed, apparently due to age.  The copper mind article doesn't indicate a Herald identity (my first thought, since heralds being at the party was a pretty strong theme.). Heralds tended not to have their own honor blades, which Wind and Truth clarifies.  

Besides having a blade, her ability to blend in is notable.  This brought to mind certain someones from other planets potentially a Kandra, Nalthian Royalty, or someone from Sel with Ghostblood ties.

The timing for it to be Azure conflicts with the history she gives in Oathbringer.  

I think the timing for her to be the Selish person is pretty good.  (Vagueness intentional due to scope of this folder)

I don't like the Vedel theory because assassination is so counter to healing.  I know, "but they're crazy!". I think if it is a herald, one with illumination makes more sense.  

 

Wasn't the Weeper Tyn?

[Factor She/Her]

3 hours ago, GeoMantrix said:

Search seems to show all discussion on the Weeper are closed, apparently due to age.  The copper mind article doesn't indicate a Herald identity (my first thought, since heralds being at the party was a pretty strong theme.). Heralds tended not to have their own honor blades, which Wind and Truth clarifies.  

Besides having a blade, her ability to blend in is notable.  This brought to mind certain someones from other planets potentially a Kandra, Nalthian Royalty, or someone from Sel with Ghostblood ties.

The timing for it to be Azure conflicts with the history she gives in Oathbringer.  

I think the timing for her to be the Selish person is pretty good.  (Vagueness intentional due to scope of this folder)

I don't like the Vedel theory because assassination is so counter to healing.  I know, "but they're crazy!". I think if it is a herald, one with illumination makes more sense.  

 

Hellos, and welcome to Factor Tries To Help With WoBs She Doesn't Have!

Um, and the MCM london comic con thing, i remember someone asked about the Weeper being a Herald. He said that they're not going in quite the right direction, but there is sognoficance there, and RAFOed them.

But this hasn't been uploaded to the Arcanum. So, Sources: My Vague Memories

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

Wasn't the Weeper Tyn?

Weeper is Liss, which is an obvious pseudonym but could not be Tyn; as Tyn didn't drop a Shardbalde when killed by Shallan. It is likely that Liss is one of the Heralds, but there is not enough information for any conclusive deductions. All WoBs (only two) only get a RAFO:

Spoiler

Quote

Steeldancer

And then the final question. At the beginning of Words of Radiance, the assassin Liss, is she Chana?

Brandon Sanderson

*Evil laugh* I will RAFO that. Sorry!

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

Quote

Nicrosil

Is Liss a Surgebinder then?

Brandon Sanderson

Ha, RAFO.

Footnote: This followed a question as to whether any orders would accept an assassin as a member.
Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

 

Hope that helps

[Returned he/him]

There isn't any real evidence to suggest that she isn't a Herald, but I don't see any particular reason to think that she is one, either. Roshar has lots of regular assassins running around (or at least Rosharans of note act like it does), and blending in is a pretty common skill for such a person to have (such as Sadeas' carpenter, whom no one has accused of being an offworlder).

If anything I would think that the Weeper's method of killing and mutilating the corpses suggests that she isn't a Herald or Worldhopper. A Herald has so many abilities that would make them irresistible assassins without a Shardblade that I don't see any compelling reason for them to use one, and when she takes such care to hide that a Shardblade was used at all what would be the point of all that bother? Their superhuman speed alone is more than enough even without any weapon. Other Worldhoppers tend to have other magic systems available which are even less obvious to a Rosharan than a Blade would be.

Conversely, having an unknown or lost Blade is an amazing tool for an otherwise ordinary Rosharan assassin: it can't be perceived unless she is actively using it, can't be taken from her, is always available to her at will (as far as most Rosharans know), is very hard to defend against, and no one would assume that a woman has one. Anything could be the case but I think that the Weeper is a lot like Adolin before he made the Unoathed possible: very important in the pre-True Desolation era, but simply eclipsed afterwards. I never expected the Weeper to be even a minor character, instead just a bit of worldbuilding flavor. I wouldn't mind being wrong though, she sounds like an interesting person no matter what else she might turn out to be.

[Jult]

Cosmere RPG Stonewalkers Spoiler:

Spoiler

Liss shows up in 'Chapter 2: Weeper's Trail' of the Stonewalkers adventure for the RPG.

We get official art of what she looks like and some more background info on her.

Szeth was her first exposure to Shin culture. She was so curious about his strange and unusual abilities that she sought out the Stone Shaman to ask about them. She ran into the group that had been sent to reclaim Taln's Honorblade in Jah Keved. One thing led to another, and they hired her to be their eyes and ears in the Warcamps.

We learn the above from Liss directly. So, she could be lying. But if she's telling the truth, I'd rule her out as a potential Herald altogether.

That aside. There's not a long list of potential Heralds she could be:

1. Chanarach - not a chance. She's on Braize when we first meet Liss
2. Vedel - Maybe. Their physical descriptions aren't very similar, but there's plenty of ways to disguise herself. And we just simply don't know where Vedel's been all this time.
3. Pralla - I'd say no. She's probably the most similar to her in physical appearance. And they both like to wear Emeralds. But I'd say they're not the same person. Mostly because (Bigger Stonewalker Spoilers)
   Spoiler

   Pralla plays a big role in Stonewalkers and she is NOT in a good mental state when we meet her. It's pretty clearly implied that she hasn't been anywhere lately - especially not out roleplaying as a clever assassin spy.

4. Shalash - Maybe. Ash isn't as insane as the other Heralds. We know both Liss and Shalash were in Jah Keved prior to going to the Kholin Warcamp - both in search of Taln. This had to be around the same time, but I haven't tried narrowing down their timelines and comparing. However, Liss is described as "plump" and Ash is described as "tall and lean". And their personalities seem very different to me. But Ash is the Lightweaver Herald, so... appearances may be deceiving. I'd still lean towards no.
5. Battar - Probably not. Their physical appearances are very different. And Battar was active enough as Dova that I just don't see her needing another secret identity.

TLDR - I don't think Liss is a Herald, but if she is then Vedel is the most likely candidate in my mind.