Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I'm back on my realmatic holisticity madness normal, sensible research.

Most of the WoBs that helped me here are already linked in my two other theories below, but there's a new one from the recent Comic Con in London: the 16 Shards could've been different if the vessels had different Intents and Perceptions during the Shattering (can't see it on Coppermind yet, sorry!). This basically confirms one of the underlying assumptions I'd made when making the first theory below (vindication!).

I'm going to be talking about three different types of Surge, so for reference, here's my shorthand:

  • R-Surge: The 10 Rosharan Surges we know and love
  • Y-Surge: The 8 Yolish Surges that existed ages ago and are free from Honor's influence
  • T-Surge: The 16 True Surges; hypothetical Surges for each Shard, to mirror Adhesion for Honor and Progression for Cultivation

 

This one also builds on a couple of my previous theories, if you fancy doing some extra credit:

If you don't want to read those (no shade—I ramble a lot), here's a quick primer:

Shards as Identity/Connection vectors

Spoiler

I posit that the four Dawnshards are essentially Commands to either increase or reduce one of the core aspects of the Cosmere: Identity and Connection. Further, reducing Identity and Connection gives two other emergent aspects, as follows:

  • Exist: Increases Identity
  • Reduce: Decreases Identity (or increases Entropy)
  • Merge: Increases Connection
  • Change: Decreases Connection (or increases Fortune)

We also know that the Shards we got were influenced by the Intents and Perceptions of the vessels. Therefore, I suspect Adonalsium was initially split into four Protoshards, each representing a Dawnshard Command, and each Protoshard was shared among four vessels, wherein their Perception defined the Shard they got.

To quote myself from the linked theory on what happened with Merge as an example:

Aona, Skai, Koravellium and Tanavast were chosen to be the stewards of the Merge quadrant. Each of them, based on their personal worldviews and perceptions, understood the Command differently:

  • Aona saw prioritising Connection to others and to ideals over one's own personal desires, so her chunk became Devotion
  • Skai saw the enforcement of Connection above all else, an empire with him at its head to ensure order: Dominion
  • Koravellium (a dragon who was used to looking after mortals) saw individuals as potential pieces of a spiritual whole that need careful pruning to better make them fit: Cultivation
  • Tanavast saw oaths and promises as tools to bind people to each other for structure and strength: Honor

In each case, the Shardic Intent was fractured and warped by the perception of each person that took some of the power. 'Cultivation' as a concept didn't exist until Koravellium interacted with the quarter of Adonalsium's broken soul that represented the Merge Dawnshard.

There are only eight Surges

Spoiler

We know a few things about the Surges:

  • Honor intentionally limited them when giving them to the Heralds, and the abilities granted by the Surges were further modified by Honor's unconscoius Perception of them.
  • There exists the concept of a True Surge, most notably heard from Raboniel.
  • Yolen had its own version of the Surges, which included a form of Cohesion (Microkinesis) and a form of Lightweaving.
  • Some of the Rosharan Surges are bidirectional (Abrasion) while some are unidirectional (Adhesion)
  • 4 (and therefore 8 and 16) are incredibly important numbers across the Cosmere
  • 10 is only an important number in the Rosharan system

From this, I posit that there are actually 8 Surges (which I refer to as Yolish Surges), which are themselves inspired by the four fundamental forces in the real world:

  • Topokinesis (Gravity, Transportation): The Surge of Spatial/Realmatic Translation
  • Macrokinesis (Gravity, Gravitation): The Surge of Relational Configuration
  • Photokinesis (Electromagnetism, Illumination): The Surge of Electromagnetic Radiation
  • Autokinesis (Electromagnetism, Abrasion): The Surge of Contact Mechanics
  • Microkinesis (Strong nuclear, Cohesion): The Surge of Structural Configuration
  • Morphokinesis (Strong nuclear, Transformation): The Surge of State Change
  • Horikinesis (Weak nuclear, Division): The Surge of Strain Thresholds
  • Dynamokinesis (Weak nuclear, Tension): The Surge of Tensile Stress

Honor took these, warped them into forms he approved of, and added his and Cultivation's True Surges to make a nice, neat 10.

Note: I created a uniform set of names for the Y-Surges. I know Hoid has said that Yolen had lightweaving, but we also know that he was talking to a Rosharan at the time (who are prone, for example, to calling all forms of kinetic Investiture 'Surgebinding'). He was also likely tapping Connection in some way to speak Alethi (I think that's what he was speaking at the time?), which we know from multiple examples has an inconsistent way of translating some concepts.

I don't think it's a contradiction to suggest that Yolen had a different name for the Y-Surge behind lightweaving.

 

As with any Shard theory, it's also important to remember that the method by which one gains access to an Invested Art is WAY more related to that Shard than the powers one gets from that Art. For example, one of the Rosharan Surges is Division, which seems pretty antithetical to Honor, and most allomantic abilities don't vibe well with Preservation's Intent.

I've summarised the ones we know about here:

Spoiler

Dawnshard Shard Art Acqusition Shard Art Acqusition Shard Art Acqusition Shard Art Acqusition
Exist Endowment Freely given Preservation Containing Preservation Virtuosity Skill mastery Ambition --
Change Reason -- Invention -- Valor -- Autonomy Overcoming challenges
Reduce Whimsy -- Ruin Stealing from Spiritweb Odium Hijacking Identity Mercy --
Merge Honor Swearing oaths Cultivation Cultivating Spiritweb Dominion Bruteforcing Connection* Devotion Devoting to something*


*obviously it's difficult to separate Devotion and Dominion's Intents from the Dor, but I think these are fair extrapolations

 

The actual theory bit

Oof, I really do ramble.

Just as the Dawnshards represent the four 'core' aspects of the Cosmere, I believe the four fundamental forces manifest in the Cosmere as another set of four realmatic attributes, ones that every conscious being has:

  • Investiture
  • Perception
  • Intent
  • Resonance

It's actually quite straightforward to map the forces to these attributes (almost as if it were intentional 👀). Some of the links may seem a bit abstract, until you remember that the forces describe physical phenomena, whereas the aspects describe spiritual ones.

  • Gravity warps spacetime and determines the distribution and effect of mass: Investiture
  • EM governs information and energy transfer: Perception
  • Strong Nuclear defines what stuff is: Intent
  • Weak Nuclear describes how stuff interacts and transitions between states: Resonance

Yolish Surge Force Governs Spiritual aspect
Macrokinesis Gravity mass attraction, orbital dynamics, spacetime manipulation Investiture
Macrokinesis Gravity mass attraction, orbital dynamics, spacetime manipulation Investiture
Topokinesis Gravity spatial translation, wormholes, realm traversal Investiture
Topokinesis Gravity spatial translation, wormholes, realm traversal Investiture
Photokinesis EM EM radiation, information transfer, energy transfer Perception
Photokinesis EM EM radiation, information transfer, energy transfer Perception
Autokinesis EM contact mechanics, surface tension, friction coefficients Perception
Autokinesis EM contact mechanics, surface tension, friction coefficients Perception
Microkinesis Strong nuclear internal configuration, plastic deformation, structural continuity Intent
Microkinesis Strong nuclear internal configuration, plastic deformation, structural continuity Intent
Morphokinesis Strong nuclear transmutation, state change, energy / matter / investiture conversion Intent
Morphokinesis Strong nuclear transmutation, state change, energy / matter / investiture conversion Intent
Horikinesis Weak nuclear strain threshold, fracture mechanics, brittleness / ductility Resonance
Dynamokinesis Weak nuclear tensile stress, surface tension, mechanical strain Resonance
Dynamokinesis Weak nuclear tensile stress, surface tension, mechanical strain Resonance
Horikinesis Weak nuclear strain threshold, fracture mechanics, brittleness / ductility Resonance

 

From this, it seems like a logical next step to create a grid of 16 True Surges by combining these two groups of four.

Activity time! In the first spoiler below, there's a grid of the names of the 16 T-Surges. In the second spoiler, I've added the names of the Shards.

See if you can guess with T-Surge belongs to each Shard, then check the second spoiler to see how your answers compare to mine. Be sure to comment to tell me why I'm wrong!

Spoiler

  Investiture Perception Intent Resonance
Identity Amplification Distillation Conservation Augmentation
Entropy Dissolution Submission Destabilisation Agitation
Fortune Liberation Definition Synthesis Intercession
Connection Fusion Progression Imposition Adhesion
Spoiler

  Investiture Perception Intent Resonance
Identity Amplification
(Ambition)
Distillation
(Virtuosity)
Conservation
(Preservation)
Augmentation
(Endowment)
Entropy Dissolution
(Ruin)
Submission
(Mercy)
Destabilisation
(Whimsy)
Agitation
(Odium)
Fortune Liberation
(Autonomy)
Definition
(Reason)
Synthesis
(Invention)
Intercession
(Valor)
Connection Fusion
(Devotion)
Progression
(Cultivation)
Imposition
(Dominion)
Adhesion
(Honor)

 

In each case, we're essentially able to look at the Spiritual Aspects and Realmatic Attributes and say:

  • If you apply [Attribute] to [Aspect], that means you [T-Surge]

For example:

  • If you apply Connection to Resonance, that means you synchronise distinct entities and bind them together (Adhesion)
  • If you apply Connection to Perception, that means you align how two related entities perceive each other (Progression, ie: modifying the physical self to better align with the cognitive self)

 

And, because I'm a data engineer and can't help myself, here's a nice(ish) graphic showing the Shards as a grid:

Spoiler

ShardTrueSurges.png.7e0e686399c60d62f0a5c42121a5431d.png

And a full table showing the relationships of all the concepts I've spoken about:

Spoiler

Yolish Surge Rosharan Surge Force Spiritual aspect Shard Dawnshard Realmatic Attribute True Surge
Macrokinesis Gravitation Gravity Investiture Ambition Exist Identity Amplification
Macrokinesis Gravitation Gravity Investiture Devotion Merge Connection Fusion
Topokinesis Transportation Gravity Investiture Ruin Reduce Entropy Dissolution
Topokinesis Transportation Gravity Investiture Autonomy Change Fortune Liberation
Photokinesis Illumination EM Perception Virtuosity Exist Identity Distillation
Photokinesis Illumination EM Perception Cultivation Merge Connection Progression
Autokinesis Abrasion EM Perception Mercy Reduce Entropy Submission
Autokinesis Abrasion EM Perception Reason Change Fortune Definition
Microkinesis Cohesion Strong nuclear Intent Preservation Exist Identity Conservation
Microkinesis Cohesion Strong nuclear Intent Dominion Merge Connection Imposition
Morphokinesis Transformation Strong nuclear Intent Whimsy Reduce Entropy Destabilisation
Morphokinesis Transformation Strong nuclear Intent Invention Change Fortune Synthesis
Horikinesis Division Weak nuclear Resonance Endowment Exist Identity Augmentation
Dynamokinesis Tension Weak nuclear Resonance Honor Merge Connection Adhesion
Dynamokinesis Tension Weak nuclear Resonance Odium Reduce Entropy Agitation
Horikinesis Division Weak nuclear Resonance Valor Change Fortune Intercession

 

I only started this theory by going "huh, I wonder if every Shard has a True Surge", and ended up just reinforcing my belief that there are only 8 Surges in the Cosmere, each of them a derivative of one of the fundamental forces.

 

 

Posted

I can’t truly argue with Surge assignments, but I want to discuss attributes and forces.

58 minutes ago, PanLin said:

Just as the Dawnshards represent the four 'core' aspects of the Cosmere, I believe the four fundamental forces manifest in the Cosmere as another set of four realmatic attributes, ones that every conscious being has:

  • Investiture
  • Perception
  • Intent
  • Resonance

Why is resonance a force? A Resonance is the result of the Tones of two or more Shards interacting. It is less a force and more a by product imo. 
I would like to say more but have to run, I will edit and ping you with my thoughts later.

Posted

I really like this, and the nomenclature for allll those surges in particular! Not much to particularly disagree with, but an idea I'd like to expand upon:

 

8 hours ago, PanLin said:

Just as the Dawnshards represent the four 'core' aspects of the Cosmere, I believe the four fundamental forces manifest in the Cosmere as another set of four realmatic attributes, ones that every conscious being has:

  • Investiture
  • Perception
  • Intent
  • Resonance

Something I've been toying around with for a little bit is attempting to find another definition vector for the Dawnshards, and seeing where that goes if anywhere.

 

Quote

yurisses

You once said that Investiture follows its own version of the laws of thermodynamics. The first one is that Investiture is neither created nor destroyed.

Is the second law of Investodynamics that the amount of corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere cannot decrease?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, the idea is that there is a third item in the equations--matter, energy, and investiture. That's the basis of how they work.

Entropy is not corrupted Investiture. The second law stands as is. However, there is a fourth law that relates to Adonalsium, which I'm not going to talk about at the moment.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 14, 2015)

EXIST looks a lot like the 1st law of Thermodynamics.
CHANGE looks a lot like the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

The 3rd and 4th then, may be physical manifestations of the remaining 2 laws.

I've gone my own places with that as a music guy, but that's for its own thing that has nothing to do with the surges, I should probably get to working on getting it up on here though.

Posted

@PanLin someone else posted before I edited my post, so I’m gonna make a new one for quoting convenience.

9 hours ago, PanLin said:
  • Aona saw prioritising Connection to others and to ideals over one's own personal desires, so her chunk became Devotion
  • Skai saw the enforcement of Connection above all else, an empire with him at its head to ensure order: Dominion
  • Koravellium (a dragon who was used to looking after mortals) saw individuals as potential pieces of a spiritual whole that need careful pruning to better make them fit: Cultivation
  • Tanavast saw oaths and promises as tools to bind people to each other for structure and strength: Honor

I doubt this was how the Shardic Intents came to be, because we know that Ati took up Ruin so that no one else had to. The Intents changed over time, but they had an initial starting point unrelated to the first Vessel.

 

9 hours ago, PanLin said:

Just as the Dawnshards represent the four 'core' aspects of the Cosmere, I believe the four fundamental forces manifest in the Cosmere as another set of four realmatic attributes, ones that every conscious being has:

  • Investiture
  • Perception
  • Intent
  • Resonance

So you are finding four forces in the Cosmere that manifest as Surges? Makes sense, but I disagree with two or three of these.

I’m unclear on what you mean by investiture, could you clarify how that is a force?

Perception makes total sense, no comments.

Intent feels more like an individual aspect rather than a Cosmere wide force.

Resonance is more a by product of two tones mixing than a force as well.

9 hours ago, PanLin said:
contents

 

  Investiture Perception Intent Resonance
Identity Amplification Distillation Conservation Augmentation
Entropy Dissolution Submission Destabilisation Agitation
Fortune Liberation Definition Synthesis Intercession
Connection Fusion Progression Imposition

As for the aspects (vertical column) I think you are aiming for the subjects of forces. This list works slightly better, but still missing the mark.

Identity works, no complaints.

Entropy, no idea how this idea applies, if you have a thought process I would love to hear it.

Fortune I don’t know enough about, this may be a force or something else.

Connection works, no complaints.

 

My list would be:

Attributes/forces: Perception, maybe Investiture, Fortune might fit, Command may fall under Intent but it could work here. Or Intent works in the first place.

Aspects: Connection, Identity, maybe Intent, I’m drawing a blank for the fourth.

9 hours ago, PanLin said:

If you apply Connection to Resonance, that means you synchronise distinct entities and bind them together (Adhesion)

A resonance is not a synchronization. Musically, it is when two notes create a phantom note that you hear but doesn’t really exist, similar to a Windrunner’s reverse Lashing.

 

9 hours ago, PanLin said:

If you apply Connection to Perception, that means you align how two related entities perceive each other (Progression, ie: modifying the physical self to better align with the cognitive self)

I imagine that Gravitation works in this way, with my list Progression would be  maybe Identity and Perception.

 

9 hours ago, PanLin said:

It's actually quite straightforward to map the forces to these attributes (almost as if it were intentional 👀). Some of the links may seem a bit abstract, until you remember that the forces describe physical phenomena, whereas the aspects describe spiritual ones.

  • Gravity warps spacetime and determines the distribution and effect of mass: Investiture
  • EM governs information and energy transfer: Perception
  • Strong Nuclear defines what stuff is: Intent
  • Weak Nuclear describes how stuff interacts and transitions between states: Resonance

 

Yolish Surge Force Governs Spiritual aspect
Macrokinesis Gravity mass attraction, orbital dynamics, spacetime manipulation Investiture
Macrokinesis Gravity mass attraction, orbital dynamics, spacetime manipulation Investiture
Topokinesis Gravity spatial translation, wormholes, realm traversal Investiture
Topokinesis Gravity spatial translation, wormholes, realm traversal Investiture
Photokinesis EM EM radiation, information transfer, energy transfer Perception
Photokinesis EM EM radiation, information transfer, energy transfer Perception
Autokinesis EM contact mechanics, surface tension, friction coefficients Perception
Autokinesis EM contact mechanics, surface tension, friction coefficients Perception
Microkinesis Strong nuclear internal configuration, plastic deformation, structural continuity Intent
Microkinesis Strong nuclear internal configuration, plastic deformation, structural continuity Intent
Morphokinesis Strong nuclear transmutation, state change, energy / matter / investiture conversion Intent
Morphokinesis Strong nuclear transmutation, state change, energy / matter / investiture conversion Intent
Horikinesis Weak nuclear strain threshold, fracture mechanics, brittleness / ductility Resonance
Dynamokinesis Weak nuclear tensile stress, surface tension, mechanical strain Resonance
Dynamokinesis Weak nuclear tensile stress, surface tension, mechanical strain Resonance
Horikinesis Weak nuclear strain threshold, fracture mechanics, brittleness / ductility

I don’t understand how you mapped the forces to the Attributes, could you explain them to my feeble mind?

 

55 minutes ago, JohnTMS said:

EXIST looks a lot like the 1st law of Thermodynamics.
CHANGE looks a lot like the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

The 3rd and 4th then, may be physical manifestations of the remaining 2 laws.

I've gone my own places with that as a music guy, but that's for its own thing that has nothing to do with the surges, I should probably get to working on getting it up on here though.

I look forward to this, I think Khriss said the Dawnshards were the primal Commands Adonalsium used in the creation of the Cosmere, so it makes sense that they represent the four laws.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...