Unkeyed alluminium mind.

[Lesser spren]

I've been wondering what would occur if a feruchemist could tap someone elses identity mind. You likely could use their other metal mind, and if the one how filled the metal mind had accsess to other invested arts you could probably rereclaim breathes, surge infusions, etc. But would you take on the personality traits of the individual like with soul stamps? would you even begin to think you were the individual who filled the metal mind?

[PanLin they/he]

2 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

I've been wondering what would occur if a feruchemist could tap someone elses identity mind.

So there's difference in the Cosmere between little-i identity and big-I Identity, and Sanderson is very careful about when he capitalises words related to realmatics (Identity, Connection, Fortune (among others) are different things to identity, connection and fortune):

• identity: the bits of your personality you're asking about; memories, mannerisms, everything that makes you you
• Identity: basically a spiritual fingerprint; it's how the Cosmere knows which spiritweb you're attached to

I struggled to find any specific WoBs for this, but here's what I did find:

Spoiler

Questioner

In terms of discussing Identity, I know that in Emperor's Soul, they talk about Identity, and the Parshendi talk about losing their Identity, and then I was just rereading Bands of Mourning, and one of the kandra talks about how the spikes are their Identity. Are all of those things connected somehow or are they different forms of Identity?

Brandon Sanderson

They are connected, although the Parshendi losing their identity is a little more metaphorical. But yeah, the idea of these things-- Identity is an innate attribute in the cosmere that is related to your soul, your spirit, and it is one of the things that Hemalurgy can fiddle with and Feruchemy can fiddle with. It's kind of important to how the [Metallic] Arts play out, but it's important to all the magics...

Identity is involved in why you can't use another person's metalminds, right, that kind of thing. And those are all related. The Parshendi is more metaphorical. 

Questioner

I wondered because it's always capitalized, in the book.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep, and it's done intentionally. Peter always asks, "Are you sure this one is capitalized?" "Yeah."

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

Spoiler

Questioner

We know that magical healing has a lot to do with Identity, like Lopen and Rysn. Suppose someone was tapping Identity from an unkeyed metalmind, and then you tried to heal them with any kind of magical healing. What would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

Most likely, that person’s perspective of themself is going to filter that unkeyed metalmind, and so what’s going to happen is what would normally happen to that person. In most instances. There are ways to get around that, but the vast majority, that’s what you’re gonna see.

Questioner

And if they were storing Identity instead?

Brandon Sanderson

Then you’re gonna go back to their Cognitive picture of themselves, which is going to be what’s filtering this, how they see themselves. If you knock them unconscious, they can’t see themselves, you’re blanking them of Identity, and things like that. They still, basically, will have… it’s gonna be really hard to get that all separated. The mental picture of themselves still exists on the Spiritual Realm. Remember, Realmatics is based on Plato’s theories of the forms, but your perspective is what’s shaping that. So there’s still gonna be, like, on the Spiritual Realm, there’s gonna be some version of yourself that is deeply influenced by how you view yourself that is going to be what that Investiture is trying to match, it’s trying to bring your body into alignment with that. So you’ve gotta replace that thing if you want it to do something different. Which you can do with Hemalurgy.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

Spoiler

Phantine

So... CS question here, I'm seeing identity as essentially a 'encryption' on the metalmind - the spike has the decryption key to existing metalminds, but when you encrypt a new one you use your personal encryption key with the spike's hardware, so you still have compounding access to the metalminds even after removing the spike.

Is it possible for there to be a 'key collision' with Identity? Two people just randomly end up making compatible metalminds, because the pieces of their Identities that the magic looks like happen to be the same.

Brandon Sanderson

This would be about as likely as two unrelated people ending up with the exact same genetic sequence.

But, so far as I understand, that WOULD be possible.

Lucadaw

So identical twins could share metalminds ?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 9, 2015)

Spoiler

Questioner

So, in Oathbringer, the way that Veil and others are treated as separate people themselves. Is there any similarity between that and Feruchemical Identity? 

Brandon Sanderson

Uh… Yes, but it's pretty tenuous. 

Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)

Your identity is heavily dependent on your perception of yourself, which doesn't necessarily change when your Identity does. If you wanted to use feruchemy to change your identity, I think you'd have more luck using copper (see how much Dalinar's identity and self-perception changed after his memories were altered by Cultivation.

To think of it a different way: storing your Identity doesn't make you lose your memories or personality or anything, so it tracks that tapping someone else's Identity wouldn't give you theirs.

 

2 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

You likely could use their other metal mind, and if the one how filled the metal mind had accsess to other invested arts you could probably rereclaim breathes, surge infusions, etc.

This stuff is related to Investiture and therefore stored in nicrosil metalminds. Changes to Identity (maybe by tapping someone else's Identity they've already stored in aluminum) would let you use someone else's metalmind, but in order to use their Invested abilities, that metalmind would need to be nicrosil (or certain god metals).

 

2 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

But would you take on the personality traits of the individual like with soul stamps? would you even begin to think you were the individual who filled the metal mind?

Soul stamping does more than just change your Identity—it sort of rewrites your past, therefore changing both your identity and Identity.

Edited yesterday at 12:22 AM by PanLin

[Myst He/Him]

I don’t think you would.

What comes to mind is the medallions from BoM (spoilers)

Spoiler

So, Allik said that when he stored identity, the planet automatically connected him to the place he was in, but his soul knew where he was from, and so he had his accent.

Basically, Identity does not equal you.

So no.

Otherwise storing identity would not take away your personality, and since it’s not something you’re storing, you can’t tap it.

edit: lol nevermind I’m mixing up connection and Identity 

Edited Sunday at 10:27 PM by Myst