Creation of new shards (spoiler for mistborn era 1 and stormlightarchive)

[Michael12124]

So I've been doing a reread of the cosmere and I was thinking harmony is created as a balance. A push, pull net zero. And with allomancy this was a common train of thought. And so I'm curious how much this beyond sazed own thoughts influenced how the shards combined as a people's perception of the shards changes. I compare this to retribution because during the time of the stormlight archives you have the vengeance pack from the alethi a very war focused but passionate people that consumed their idealogy. They cited honor as the reason for this pack. So I'm curious if the cognitive representation of such a strong and passionate people over the years was one of the main factors that led honor and odium (passion) to combine into retribution instead of another combination especially with taravangian not having this stronger intent when he seized both shards. Thoughts?

Edited April 28 by Michael12124

[alder24]

6 hours ago, Michael12124 said:

So I've been doing a reread of the cosmere and I was thinking harmony is created as a balance. A push, pull net zero. And with allomancy this was a common train of thought. And so I'm curious how much this beyond sazed own thoughts influenced how the shards combined as a people's perception of the shards changes. I compare this to retribution because during the time of the stormlight archives you have the vengeance pack from the alethi a very war focused but passionate people that consumed their idealogy. They cited honor as the reason for this pack. So I'm curious if the cognitive representation of such a strong and passionate people over the years was one of the main factors that led honor and odium (passion) to combine into retribution instead of another combination especially with taravangian not having this stronger intent when he seized both shards. Thoughts?

People's perception about Shards does influence their intent a little bit, but the biggest effect on their intent has the Vessel's own perception.  Vessel filters the intent of the Shard and they can change how it's manifested. Sazed chose the name Harmony because it felt right to him and he could control both of them just right. If he wasn't able to control them, he would have chosen the name Discord instead. The same goes with Retribution, that's how Taravangian specifically view those combined Shards and that's why this name was chosen. 

Spoiler

Questioner

Do the Shards themselves create the Intent? Or is it influenced by perception?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a bit of both. The Shard has an innate Intent, but it is filtered through the perception of the Vessel. And the Vessel influences it. But the Shard’s also influencing the Vessel, right? So there’s this tug, and this push and pull, and things like that. So it’s a little bit of both. The stronger side is gonna be the innate Intent of the Shard.

Dragonsteel Nexus 2025 (Dec. 5, 2025)

 

Spoiler

Necarion

Do Vessels have any flexibility in expressing the intent of a Shard, particularly if the intent is open to many interpretations?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes they do. So, the Vessel's mind and how they perceive is going to have a large influence on how things are expressed and I think all of them have some wiggle room. But there are some deterministic things that are also going to push them.  You know, holding Ruin, Harmony may not go down the same path that happened to Ati.

Necarion

So Sadeas would express Honor differently than Tanavast?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes he would.

Arcanum Unbounded San Francisco signing (Nov. 30, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Argent

When Sazed picked up the Shards of Preservation and Ruin, did he actively choose to be known as Harmony (instead of, for example, Balance, or Equilibrium, or Stability), or is there some Cosmeric law that says Preservation + Ruin = Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

He chose the name, but in part because it FELT right to him.

Argent

Is this similar to how a Shard's "personality" overwrites the Shardholder's over time?

Brandon Sanderson

Similar, yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 17, 2015)

 

Spoiler

chasmfriend's friend (Paraphrased)

My friend asked for Brandon to write something about Harmony in her Alloy of Law.

Brandon Sanderson

There's another name Harmony could go by if he weren't able to control the conflict between his halves… *to Zas* Have you guys figured that one out yet? Oh, I'm not going to say anything. You have it on recording… I was pretty sneaky with that one so I don't know if you have it or not.

Footnote: Followed up on here.
Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

The question I’m gonna ask is about Vessels that hold multiple Shards. It seems like only one Vessel can hold Shards, as we know it; but can they manifest themselves as multiple Shardic entities?

Brandon Sanderson

If they wanted to, they could. So, yes.

Questioner

We know that Sazed is Harmony, and he’s struggling. The Intents of the Shards are difficult, and they don’t like each other, so he’s ineffective in a lot of ways. Could Discord be a shadow Sazed that lets him lean both ways, but still be under one umbrella?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is one interpretation of what could happen. You might, though, find Discord being him leaning one direction for a while, and then another direction for a while, because balance is very difficult with this. And so one takes over, and then another takes over, and he starts vacillating. And then that’s a bad thing, too.

But what you’re saying is Discord is that, if he could fully embrace the idea of Discord, it might be a way to actually find a balance.

Questioner

That Sazed as we know him would be Harmony, and the shadow Sazed is…

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, I see what you’re saying. That is different from what I was thinking. What I was saying, if the majority of the people started to call him Discord, the nature of the fight between them would be a selling point; it’d be a feature, rather than a bug. And it might be a way to win stability. But that would also be dangerous, because then you are the Shard Discord, which is… That would be bad, in some ways.

Dragonsteel Nexus 2025 (Dec. 5, 2025)

 

[Deception He/Him]

But I still don't see why Odium and Honor became Retribution. Their vessel didn't care at all about any kind of revenge. He wanted to unify the cosmere and enforce peace in his own twisted way. If he really could chose his name, wouldn't something like Enforcement make more sense?

[Michael12124]

That's what I'm saying deception. His intent was in no way towards retribution. You could see it especially in WaT. But I wonder if instead it was chosen because of the people (particularly the alethi) view/ main use of "honor"

[PanLin they/he]

10 hours ago, Deception said:

But I still don't see why Odium and Honor became Retribution. Their vessel didn't care at all about any kind of revenge. He wanted to unify the cosmere and enforce peace in his own twisted way. If he really could chose his name, wouldn't something like Enforcement make more sense?

As we've seen with Sazed's internal struggle between Harmony and Discord, and how Ati's personality was warped so much while he held Ruin, vessels only have some amount of influence over the Intent of their Shards. Trying to change it too much was Tanavast's problem with Honor.

The Intents of Honor and Odium were defined at the Shattering. It isn't so much that Taravangian decided what the new Shard should be, but more that the combined Intents of Honor, Odium, and Taravangian resulted in Retribution.

[Nitpicking]

I am of the opinion that if Dalinar had taken up the two Shards (which he could have, he had Connections to both), they would have become Justice.