Bondsmith Hemalurgy (Spoilers for RoW)

[dstokes7]

At one point, Ishar tries to use his bondsmithing powers to steal Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather, and the Stormfather seemed convinced it would have worked if he'd been given the time.

That ability sounds a lot like hemalurgy. Brandon has said a hemalurgic spike could be used to steal surgebinding ability, and that ability comes from the Nahel bond. Wouldn't that mean that a hemalurgic spike could steal a Radiant's bond to their spren? If so, wouldn't that essentially mean that Bondsmiths have abilities equivelent to hemalurgy? For example, could a Bondsmith use his powers to steal a Misting's powers and assume them himself?

[alder24]

6 hours ago, dstokes7 said:

At one point, Ishar tries to use his bondsmithing powers to steal Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather, and the Stormfather seemed convinced it would have worked if he'd been given the time.

That ability sounds a lot like hemalurgy. Brandon has said a hemalurgic spike could be used to steal surgebinding ability, and that ability comes from the Nahel bond. Wouldn't that mean that a hemalurgic spike could steal a Radiant's bond to their spren? If so, wouldn't that essentially mean that Bondsmiths have abilities equivelent to hemalurgy? For example, could a Bondsmith use his powers to steal a Misting's powers and assume them himself?

Kind of. A Nahel Bond is a Connection between a Radiant and their spren, Bondsmiths can manipulate Connections and that's why Ishar was able to steal Dalinar's bond. That's similar to Hemalurgy and you can also use spikes to steal a Nahel Bond from a Radiant. Although, in this case a spren could still break that bond so you would also need to steal the power directly from a spren to make it permanent. However, Hemalurgy can steal way more than just Connections, so it's more versatile than Bondsmithing. 

Allomancy and Feruchemy are forms of Connection, a Connection between a Mistborn/Feruchemist and Preservation, so it's likely than an unchained Bondsmith like Ishar would be able to steal it as well. There are other things that Bondsmithing can steal, but we don't know specifics yet. Anything that works on Connections could be stolen. 

WoBs:

Spoiler

Aradanftw

If you were to use Hemalurgy on a Surgebinder, would it steal the Surge or the actual spren bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to steal the spren bond, but you've got to remember the spren has power over that bond. So what you're doing is (1) incredibly evil, even more evil, but (2) you may not end up with what you want, because that spren has free will in most cases. You may go through all this trouble and then they may break the bond, and you would be left without it. So you would need something else to force them to be unable to break the bond, which would be even more evil, but it is possible in Hemalurgy.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

If I wanted to Hemalurgically acquire a power from First of the Sun, which metal would the spike need to be?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This is going to be pretty complicated, but several metals would work.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Would it involve Connection between the person being spiked and the bird?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Well it would be even harder than on Roshar, where you need to somehow spike the spren and also the Radiant. You would need to spike the bird and steal the power, but also spike the person and steal Connection.

GenCon 2017 (Aug. 17, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

hajas96

Ishar, when fighting Dalinar, showed similar powers to Hemalurgy (stealing the Nahel Bond). Could an unchained Bondsmith steal other stuff from a person? Strength, Breaths, ability to use Allomancy, etc.

Brandon Sanderson

Among those are things that they could steal.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

[Cephandrious Maxtori Fae/Faer]

4 hours ago, dstokes7 said:

At one point, Ishar tries to use his bondsmithing powers to steal Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather, and the Stormfather seemed convinced it would have worked if he'd been given the time.

That ability sounds a lot like hemalurgy. Brandon has said a hemalurgic spike could be used to steal surgebinding ability, and that ability comes from the Nahel bond. Wouldn't that mean that a hemalurgic spike could steal a Radiant's bond to their spren? If so, wouldn't that essentially mean that Bondsmiths have abilities equivelent to hemalurgy? For example, could a Bondsmith use his powers to steal a Misting's powers and assume them himself?

Bondsmiths can manipulate connection specifically, I don't think a bondsmith would be able to steal innate traits like strength or mental fortitude the way someone could with hemalurgy.

I believe allomancy is from connection to Preservation, so you could probably steal it, yes, but I don't think you could steal innate/self-dependant investiture like Feruchemy or [Warbreaker] Biochromatic Breaths, since those aren't tied to/dependant on connection, afaik.

But I'm no professional arcanist, so take that with a pinch of copper.

[Cephandrious Maxtori Fae/Faer]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Allomancy and Feruchemy are forms of Connection, a Connection between a Mistborn/Feruchemist and Preservation, 

Wait, quick follow-up, how do we know Feruchemy is from connection to Preservation?

[alder24]

7 hours ago, Ati_Simp said:

Wait, quick follow-up, how do we know Feruchemy is from connection to Preservation?

Truthfully, we don't but there are just so many similarities between Allomancy and Feruchemy that it seems very likely. For example, no Feruchemist went through Mistsnapping likely because they already had Connection to Preservation. You can also use God metals to aquire Feruchemy in some way, so it would likely work like Lerasium. However, in case of Feruchemy it probably needs Connections to both Ruin and Preservation, as Feruchemy came from both of them. 

Spoiler

Questioner

With Allomancy is of Preservation, and you have Hemalurgy, which is of Ruin. Is Feruchemy a joint effort between the two? Or is it a third party?

Brandon Sanderson

Joint effort.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

 

Spoiler

Yoitsthew

Would a lerasium/atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

[Deception He/Him]

It makes sense that Harmonium should create a Feruchemist because Harmonium comes from both Preservation and Ruin. Furthermore, Sanderson has said that you can use God Metals to create a Feruchemist.

 

However, this has some problems. The first problem is that Harmonium probably didn't exist thousands of years ago at the start of Feruchemy. But, since Harmonium can be forced to split into Lerasium and Atium even when Ruin and Preservation are combined, maybe they could have been forced to combine in a similar way when Preservation and Ruin were separate? The second problem is that simply eating Harmonium obviously doesn't work. Someone would have tried that during the extensive experimentation happening with it on Scadrial. You would need to do something a little more complicated. 
 

Still, I think it is very possible and maybe the most likely option that Harmonium somehow creates Feruchemists!

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