Investiture on Anti-Investiture annihilation

[Cephandrious Maxtori Fae/Faer]

We've seen that most investiture that was used returns to the shards power eventually, like with burnt Atium returning to the pits, so does the same thing happen with investiture that was annihilated on contact with anti-investiture, where it eventually returns to shard it's keyed to, or is the investiture permanently gone?

[PanLin they/he]

Ah apologies, didn't mean to tell you stuff you already know but yes, this still applies to annihilation. From the wiki:

Spoiler

When Investiture combines with its corresponding anti-Investiture, they are both annihilated, resulting in the release of a large amount of energy.^[8]

The energy comes from the conversion of Investiture and anti-Investiture. That wiki also states that the relationship is similar to matter and antimatter in real world physics. From the wiki page on Annihilation:

Spoiler

In particle physics, annihilation is the process that occurs when a subatomic particle collides with its respective antiparticle to produce other particles, such as an electron colliding with a positron to produce two photons.^[1] The total energy and momentum of the initial pair are conserved in the process and distributed among a set of other particles in the final state. Antiparticles have exactly opposite additive quantum numbers from particles, so the sums of all quantum numbers of such an original pair are zero. Hence, any set of particles may be produced whose total quantum numbers are also zero as long as conservation of energy, conservation of momentum, and conservation of spin are obeyed.^[2]

Whether the end result is matter, energy, new Investiture, or something entirely different, the rule of conservation still applies and nothing is truly destroyed.

Edit: ah sorry, I'm on the move and just realised I haven't answered your question. Please hold, I'll update in a sec

@Ati_Simp new answer for you:

What happens after annihilation

So, a couple of WoBs are useful here.

Spoiler

Questioner

Does Nightblood annihilate Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Investiture cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change forms. But, anything more than that is a RAFO.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

Spoiler

Kurkistan

If Investiture can neither be created nor destroyed, and Feruchemy is all fueled by the Feruchemist himself, then how do metalminds end up being invested without Feruchemists seeming to suffer any long-term loss of Investiture? If they're not "creating" the energy that's going into the metalminds, then where's it coming from?

Brandon Sanderson

The cosmere takes physics from our universe, and adds additional layers to it. Where we have energy and matter (simplified), the cosmere has additional building blocks that make reality. Investiture is one of these. It IS possible to change matter, to energy, to investiture, and back.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 5, 2015)

Spoiler

James Clifford

Science question!

Brandon Sanderson

Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science?

Adam Horne

It is Brandon science.

Brandon Sanderson

Fake science!

James Clifford

With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware.

It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

Spoiler

focoma

Is there a quantum of Investiture? Just as how the photon (the quantum of light) is the force carrier particle of electromagnetism, is there a force carrier particle for Investiture, and do you have a name for it? (My follow up question would involve string theory, but I'll leave that one for later.)

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there is a quantum of Investiture, though it acts very oddly in the cosmere.

True Investiture is a purely Spiritual Realm thing. In the cosmere, there are two alternate planes of existence, with their own specific laws. Some of them, as you've undoubtedly notice, behave similar to ideas in String Theory.

/r/books AMA 2015 (May 24, 2015)

Spoiler

VeryNiceName16

A while ago you told us that all Investiture in the Cosmere was assigned to a Shard at the Shattering, and that Investiture purified of Shardic alignment was impossible. Since then, we’ve seen Dawnshards, aethers, the Old Magic gods on Roshar (Wind/Stone/Night), and purified Dor. Are these things all still aligned to Shards? Have you changed how this works?

Brandon Sanderson

I've tweaked it a little bit. I still imagine it's all still aligned to a Shard, but it's more in its history. And I've begun letting it be wiped a little bit more, and things like that. I do think that, for instance, the old gods were Shardic-aligned, when happened. They kind of predate the Shattering, but kind of not. When you read Wind and Truth you can kinda figure that out.

I'm letting it be wiped of Intent and for all intents and purposes acting like it is completely wiped. But that's not really 100% possible. All Investiture came from Adonalsium. (Asterisk: the Aethers claim they didn't.) And therefore, all Investiture still came from Adonalsium, even if you... If you file off the serial numbers of something, it's still the thing. You just don't recognize it. That's where I am right now on this. It's a good question. I could change on this. This is one of those ones where I could change on as things go along. Because, again, the Aethers claim they are not derived from Adonalsium.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 7 (Dec. 19, 2025)

So, I'd say we can confidently say from this that matter, energy and Investiture being the same thing means they can be freely converted for however long without breaking conservation.

The bit I bolded seems to imply that this recycling would naturally happen even after the Investiture has been converted to energy, but it is a bit vague as to whether this is a natural process or he just means that it would naturally find its way back to the spiritual realm because of interactions with other agents and forces.

I also thought that purified Dor still returned to the Dor, which would mean that Investiture that's converted to energy still 'remembers' the Shard its keyed to and would end up back there, but the last WoB I linked makes it sound like Sanderson's shifting his perspective on that a bit.

Either way, it defo isn't permanently gone.

I really want to get myself to a convention to ask this question in person now

Edited April 7 by PanLin

[alder24]

54 minutes ago, Ati_Simp said:

We've seen that most investiture that was used returns to the shards power eventually, like with burnt Atium returning to the pits, so does the same thing happen with investiture that was annihilated on contact with anti-investiture, where it eventually returns to shard it's keyed to, or is the investiture permanently gone?

Yes, it will eventually return to its Shard as investiture.  WoB:

Spoiler

James Clifford

Science question!

Brandon Sanderson

Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science?

Adam Horne

It is Brandon science.

Brandon Sanderson

Fake science!

James Clifford

With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware.

It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

[PanLin they/he]

A core rule of the Cosmere is that Investiture can't be created or destroyed, just like matter and energy in the real world.

The Investiture and anti-Investiture are both converted directly to energy (and potentially some matter) in the form of an explosion.

Edited April 7 by PanLin

[Cephandrious Maxtori Fae/Faer]

2 minutes ago, PanLin said:

A core rule of the Cosmere is that Investiture can't be created or destroyed, just like matter and energy in the real world.

The Investiture and anti-Investiture are both converted directly to energy (and potentially some matter) in the form of an explosion.

Yes, I am aware, to clarify, even when we see investiture used for things like surgebinding or allomancy, it's implied that the investiture returns to the shard it's keyed to eventually, I'm asking whether that still applies to annihilation, or if the investiture remains as matter or energy perpetually (barring external intervention).

[Cephandrious Maxtori Fae/Faer]

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yes, it will eventually return to its Shard as investiture.  WoB:

  Reveal hidden contents

James Clifford

Science question!

Brandon Sanderson

Ohh science. Is it real science, or fake science?

Adam Horne

It is Brandon science.

Brandon Sanderson

Fake science!

James Clifford

With the discovery of anti-Investiture in Rhythm of War, would the correct form of anti-Investiture be usable to clear up the mess in the Sel Cognitive Realm. If so, would this completely destroy a splintered Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs, coughs, and is otherwise stunned* That would not be a good idea. So why would that not be a good idea? So no, this would not clear up the problem. The problem that's going on in the Cognitive Realm in Sel is that a bunch of Investiture that should be in the Spiritual Realm has been packed into the Cognitive Realm instead, through a very weird circumstance of events. If you were to introduce a bunch of anti-Investiture of the right type there, you would just generate an explosion that would be a very bad thing. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, Investiture can't be either, so it's actually changing forms. It's going from Investiture into energy! Which you know, does not leave the system. So the investiture would eventually make its way back around, you can't destroy anything in the Cosmere, just like you can't destroy anything in our universe. But you can make it change forms. And so, what's going on there is just this hope by a certain individual that what has happened there will prevent the power from becoming self-aware.

It's basically Odium being like "alright I just murdered you people, I don't wanna have to come back and do it again". So he's trying to figure out a way to make this happen. As it currently stands (again, these things can change when I write future books), it was partially happenstance that he took advantage of rather than something that he was able to set up very intentionally from the beginning, but he was definitely a part.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

Thank you, that answers both my question, and my planned follow up about whether you could use anti-investiture to 'reform' a spintered shard!