At what point does Aluminium stop behaving like aluminium?

[buzzbuzz she/her]

I read (somewhere on this website) that you can use aluminium for bullets, even though the metal itself isn't very good for making bullets. You can make an alloy of aluminium which still behaves like aluminium and is not affected by pushing/pulling. So if you start making duralumin, for example, would there be a point where it stops behaving like aluminium?

[PanLin they/he]

40 minutes ago, buzzbuzz said:

So if you start making duralumin, for example, would there be a point where it stops behaving like aluminium?

If you start adding copper to it, there would be a point where it stops acting like aluminum and becomes duralamin, but I'm not sure what exactly that point would be.

I view the alloys as tuning into a radio station—pure aluminum? Great. Perfect ratio of aluminum to copper? Duralamin, nice. Anything in between that is going to be the cosmological equivalent of static when you don't have the right radio frequency: either close enough to get the effect of one of those metals, or nothing at all (and give you a headache if you try to burn it). I think it's more of a scale rather than 'Suddenly Duralamin', if that makes sense?

That said, there are some non-allomancy alloys Scadrians have been experimenting with (eg: aluminum blended with things other than copper). There's a scene in Alloy of Law where they talk about an aluminum alloy that keeps some Investiture blocking while being stronger and less liable to corrode. From the wiki:

Quote

Aluminum bullets are actually composed of an Allomantically inert alloy of aluminum since the ballistics of a pure aluminum bullet would not work.

 

Edited February 17 by PanLin

[Trusk'our he/him]

29 minutes ago, buzzbuzz said:

I read (somewhere on this website) that you can use aluminium for bullets, even though the metal itself isn't very good for making bullets. You can make an alloy of aluminium which still behaves like aluminium and is not affected by pushing/pulling. So if you start making duralumin, for example, would there be a point where it stops behaving like aluminium?

@buzzbuzz is correct that there is a bit of a spectrum. The ideal form of duralumin, for example, requires 96% aluminum for every 4% percent copper. You could have a little more copper or a little less and it would still function as duralumin, albeit less efficiently.

If memory serves (and it has been a while, so take this with a pinch of copper), Wax believed there could have been as little as 1% of ekaboron in the Set's aluminum bullets to adjust for ballistics. This was simply an educated guess on his part though (and mine at this point), so we don't have a perfect idea of how much aluminum can stand to be tainted, but my assumption based on duralumin percentages is that it only requires a very small amount of impurity to completely counter its typical properties.

[buzzbuzz she/her]

12 hours ago, PanLin said:

Anything in between that is going to be the cosmological equivalent of static when you don't have the right radio frequency: either close enough to get the effect of one of those metals, or nothing at all (and give you a headache if you try to burn it). I think it's more of a scale rather than 'Suddenly Duralamin', if that makes sense?

That does make sense to be honest.

 

11 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

If memory serves (and it has been a while, so take this with a pinch of copper), Wax believed there could have been as little as 1% of ekaboron in the Set's aluminum bullets to adjust for ballistics.

Huh, so non allomantic metals might preserve aluminium's blocking property, while copper might push it towards duralimin(and give you a headache). I imagine intent does not play into it then.

[Trusk'our he/him]

2 hours ago, buzzbuzz said:

Huh, so non allomantic metals might preserve aluminium's blocking property, while copper might push it towards duralimin(and give you a headache). I imagine intent does not play into it then.

I don't think it matters if the added material is Allomantic in nature, it just has to push the aluminum to not be Allomantic itself. 

Steel with nickel added ceases to be the same type of steel- its molecular structure changes, which changes its validity as being an doorway to Preservation.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/220-open-the-fridge-interview/#e4702

Lyndsey Luther

Ok, last question. It was really difficult coming up with three questions that haven’t been asked already...

Brandon Sanderson

OK... you’re not going to ask me the “what would you ask me” question?

Lyndsey Luther

Not quite...

Brandon Sanderson

OK good, because I hate that one! (laughs)

Lyndsey Luther

My question is if there’s anything that you’ve never been asked that you would like to talk about?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooooh, ok. Hm. That one is so hard! Every time people ask me something like this... What have I never been asked that people should be asking, is basically what the question is? Something that the fans have just missed... They pick up on so much, that it’s hard... I do wonder if, you know… all the magic systems [in my books] are connected and work on some basic fundamental principles, and a lot of people haven’t been asking questions about this. One thing I did get a question on today, and I’ll just talk about this one... they didn’t ask the right question, but I nudged them the right way, is understanding that tie between AonDor [the magic system from Elantris] and Allomancy [Mistborn’s magic system].

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Compounding is where you are able to kind of draw in more power than you should with Feruchemy. What’s going on there is you’re actually charging a piece of metal, and then you are burning that metal as a Feruchemical charge. What is happening is that the Feruchemical charge overwrites the Allomantic charge, and so you actually fuel Feruchemy with Allomancy, is what you are doing. Then if you just get out another piece of metal and store it in, since you’re not drawing the power from yourself, you’re cheating the system, you’re short-circuiting the system a little bit. So you can actually use the power that usually fuels Allomancy, to fuel Feruchemy, which you can then store in a metalmind, and basically build up these huge reservoirs of it. So what’s going on there is… imagine there’s like, an imprint, a wavelength, so to speak. A beat for an Allomantic thing, that when you burn a metal, it says “ok, this is what power we give.” When it’s got that charge, it changes that beat and says, “now we get this power.” And you access a set of Feruchemical power. That’s why Compounding is so powerful.

Aluminum as I see it should be no different. Change the structure, change its properties, including its inability to be effected by Investiture.

Intent isn't really a factor here as you said, at least as far as I'm aware.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I don't think it matters if the added material is Allomantic in nature, it just has to push the aluminum to not be Allomantic itself. 

It seems to me that the decisive factor is the crystal structure. The difference between iron and steel is very small in terms of composition. It is definitely not the element itself. Mud and clay are made mostly from aluminium and oxygen in terms of composition.